The Great Wind and Wuthering mystery!

[jebho62]

Originally Posted by foxtrotter

Can ANYBODY fathom out what the bloody hell (story) is going on in 'One For The Vine'?

Originally Posted by Visionsofangels

But does anyone know why he came up with the name Rael for TLLDOB?

Originally Posted by martinus

It seems to hold some kind of message for movements with one "big leader" at the top...

In that vein I listened carefully to OFTV while reading the lyrics and I came up with this ridiculous hypothesis:

I never really gave that much thought to the lyrics of that song until now. I always got completely caught up in the beauty of the music. Upon careful listening however...I came to the conclusion that it is all about the end times...the main character of the story may be a false prophet...the anti-Christ in other words...but with a twist...contrary to opinion on this entity, he has a conscience.....he knows that he and his followers will be defeated and feels somewhat bad about it, but cannot do anything about it because the apocolyptic prophesy has been prophesized and cannot be changed, even by satan, and he cannot even warn his followers that they will meet their death in the final battle, for it it is written and so it shall be.

As for Rael...as discussed with VOA....we came up with somewhat of a "theory" that Gabriel originally was going to use the more Puerto Rican sounding moniker Julio for his protagonist...but Rael had a much more poetic ring to it?

[martinus]

It has been suggested that Rael's original name was Raoul, which would actually work well with the semi-Hispanic roots he has according to the story.

He is first mentioned, of course, in the line "Rael imperial aerosol kid" that moves, musically, from quiet low notes upwards. If you try to sing the line with the name Raoul it will probably sound like "mumblemumblimperial aerosol kid" - and can't you just hear that Life Of Brian-like audience going "Oy, mate, what'sis name?" ... The change to Rael provided improved audibility.


So Genesis did not write the music with an eye to its live performance? I beg to differ. Some of the instrumentals on sides 3 and 4 (youngsters: CD2) of The Lamb would not be here if Peter had not needed time to change costumes during the live show.


ps. Julio would not have worked, it has three syllables instead of two.

[Visionsofangels]

Originally Posted by martinus

It has been suggested that Rael's original name was Raoul, which would actually work well with the semi-Hispanic roots he has according to the story.

He is first mentioned, of course, in the line "Rael imperial aerosol kid" that moves, musically, from quiet low notes upwards. If you try to sing the line with the name Raoul it will probably sound like "mumblemumblimperial aerosol kid"

Just read this snippet of info on Wiki..doesn't mean it's true i know but it does kinda prove that there is more than one theroy and i guess no right or wrong answer either!!

The album tells the surreal story of a half- Puerto-Rican juvenile delinquent named Rael living in New York City, who is swept underground to face bizarre creatures and nightmarish dangers in order to rescue his brother John. Several of the story's occurrences and places were derived from Peter Gabriel's dreams, and the protagonist's name is a play on his surname.
In an interview Phil Collins remarked, "It's about a "Split personality".
In this context, Rael would believe he is looking for John but is actually looking for a missing part of himself. The individual songs also make satirical allusions to everything from mythology to the sexual revolution to advertising and consumerism. The title track, as well as "The Carpet Crawlers" and "In the Cage", are live favourites for the band and both have been included in 2007's Turn it on Again tour, with "The Carpet Crawlers" played as the closing number.

[martinus]

Originally Posted by Visionsofangels

Just read this snippet of info on Wiki..doesn't mean it's true i know

Well, CC being played as the last number in 2007 is certainly true

What is wonderful about The Lamb is that there is no such thing as the correct interpretation. I am convinced that if there was one final explanation for The Lamb it would not have aged so well.

Plus it has given us one of the most tender and loving descriptions of an animal in literature: "Meanwhile, from out of the steam, a lamb lies down. This lamb has nothing to do with Rael or any other lamb, it just lies down on Broadway." (And remember: It's up to ewe!)

[JerseyJoker]

Originally Posted by foxtrotter

(if you ever see Tony Banks relaxed send me a postcard!)

Foxtrotter,

Sorry ahead of time for going off on a tangent, but this might be one of the funniest lines I've ever seen posted in here!

Tony always seems so stiff and serious. Maybe that's changed a bit over the years, because, after watching some of the later footage in the 1983 - 1998 box set, there are moments where he actually smiles, without the rest of his face cracking! But I get your point. And Phil always was/is the clown, for sure. There's a moment on a live Brand X album (I believe it's "Live At The Roxy", from '79), where someone in the audience gets a bit rowdy, and he quotes Steve Martin: "Hey, I remember my first beer".

There are ties to Phil/Brand X and Monty Python, too -- of course, Michael Palin wrote sleeve notes to their album "Do They Hurt?".

Thanks for the laugh today, that was great!

Peace.

[JerseyJoker]

Concerning One for the Vine & TLLDOB,

I had always figured its concepts were about religion in general; certainly not specifically about Jesus or any other Deity. The reviews that Visions posted here show that the general consensus is the same, more or less. I like Martin's comment, too, on how "history repeats" (the loop). It's a very valid point (and something people should realize, since it appears to be only too true.)

The idea of references being general applies even more to The Lamb. That whole plot is all over the place, although I like the idea of "Rael" being derived from "Gabriel" ... very interesting, I don't think I've ever thought about that at all before.

Back when I was getting into these albums, I was usually concentrating on the music anyway, and not the lyrics -- to the point that I would usually screw up the lyrics when I would try to sing along (which I often did, and still do). Thankfully, I have learned them all now.

Peace.

[foxtrotter]

Hi JerseyJoker. That was brill, your reply. Ta for the laugh in return!!! And it was just the sort of thing I'd expect - I remember somebody once telling me a story about somebody shouting out "Supper's Ready!" at one of their gigs, to which Phil said: "Well, you'd better p^^s off home then!"

RE: Tony Banks and his up-and-coming, long-postponed nervous breakdown, I remember seeing this TV show where the band were doing some show in the States, and the difference in the documentary were so obvious: Tony was on camera saying (I think it was to do with the Techno-synth bit in 'Domino') "So, there's still quite a bit of pressure because it still involves somebody pressing the button at exactly that moment". Phil, on the other hand, later on in the documentary, poked his head out at the crowd of about 50,000 people and said: "I didn't think you were serious!"

Doesn't that just sum up the two personaities and why they just work so well.!!

Something amazing happened today. I'll post it up in a minute.

[foxtrotter]

I have to share this news with you!!!

Today I got a contract back from EMI giving me official permission to use some Genesis lyrics as four epigraphs in the four parts of a teenage novel I am self-publishing. The book's about a girl who finds a lost village under a lake while wandering the mountains, convinced (because of bullying) that she's ugly and unloveable. In the lost village lies: 'the ugliest thing in the world!' for every character in the book. So what isolated, ugly character would wander the Welsh mountains hiding from those who would kill it? I've been dying to share this news but until the contract came back with 'their' bit signed I couldn't really say anything. I can now!!

So, for the fee of £40.00, I am now allowed to use:


PART ONE: VAGABOND AND DELICIOUS:

Hasn't a friend to play with the ugly duckling
The pressure's on; the bubble will burst before our eyes
And all the while, in perfect time
Tears are falling on the ground
But if you don't stand up you don't stand a chance.

PART TWO: THE DRAGON CURRENT:

In one hand bread, the other, a stone
The hunter enters the forest.

PART THREE: HOW TO CATCH A SQUONK:

All are not huntsmen who blow the huntsman's horn
By the looks of this one we've not got much to fear.

PART FOUR: VAGABOND AND DELICIOUS:

Listen here, you listen to me don't you run away now.

***************

The £40.00 fee covers up to 1000 copies for The World for five years.

It's an amazing process; the publisher (EMI/Hit & Run) has to formally ask the artist (Banks and Rutherford in this case) for permission as a courtesy. They said yes!! I am so happy and thrilled.

Will keep you posted and to all my new friends on here (from one fan to another) I know you'll be just as happy. Gotta keep the Genesis flame alive for the next generation!!!

Best

Rich (Foxtrotter).

[JerseyJoker]

Originally Posted by foxtrotter

Hi JerseyJoker. That was brill, your reply. Ta for the laugh in return!!! And it was just the sort of thing I'd expect - I remember somebody once telling me a story about somebody shouting out "Supper's Ready!" at one of their gigs, to which Phil said: "Well, you'd better p^^s off home then!"

RE: Tony Banks and his up-and-coming, long-postponed nervous breakdown, I remember seeing this TV show where the band were doing some show in the States, and the difference in the documentary were so obvious: Tony was on camera saying (I think it was to do with the Techno-synth bit in 'Domino') "So, there's still quite a bit of pressure because it still involves somebody pressing the button at exactly that moment". Phil, on the other hand, later on in the documentary, poked his head out at the crowd of about 50,000 people and said: "I didn't think you were serious!"

Doesn't that just sum up the two personaities and why they just work so well.!!

Something amazing happened today. I'll post it up in a minute.

Thanks, Rich, glad to return the favor.

I thought the video in the 1983 - 98 box set where Phil is explaining the Domino Theory to the audience (IE: audience participation) was really very funny, too. Zappa asked the question: "Does humor belong in music?" ... I think the answer is obvious (Not ALL the time, of course, but sometimes it works.)

Hey, congratulations on your coup, I wish you all the best on your book! You never know what kind of creative talent you have in your midst. Good luck!

Gary Jersey Joker

[martinus]

Originally Posted by foxtrotter

Hi JerseyJoker. That was brill, your reply. Ta for the laugh in return!!! And it was just the sort of thing I'd expect - I remember somebody once telling me a story about somebody shouting out "Supper's Ready!" at one of their gigs, to which Phil said: "Well, you'd better p^^s off home then!"

Those Supper's Ready shouters always get a special treatment... The two best comments came from Phil ("You want Supper's Ready? Okay: <sings> Walking across the sitting room.warblewarblewarbleAFLOWER?warblewarbleJERUSUL EEEEEM") and Ray (on his Stiltskin tour, "Wrong band.")

Originally Posted by foxtrotter

Doesn't that just sum up the two personaities and why they just work so well.

Sure, Phil is the showman, Tony the gentleman and Mike the other bloke...

Then again, even Tony knows how to tell and enjoy joke. See Ray's famous Shipwrecked story or some of those extra-dry comments on Come Rain Or Shine (e.g. "The problem with the long songs is that they are.. um, well, long." - "We go from G to G here. That's always a very difficult transition.")