Live 1973-2007 - first impressions - Genesis News Com Forum

**martinus** · 09-19-2009, 03:09 PM

Alright. Got my box set. First impressions:

The outside: It's black.

Live, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk are in standard 2CD jewel cases. Seconds Out comes in a book (like The Lamb in the green box), and so do the bonus discs. There is an empty slot with a jewel-case size cardboard sign that has the LOE cover on one side and says "This space is reserved for your copy of Live over Europe 2007" on the back. Unfortunately, Live Over Europe fits in there only without its cardboard sleeve.

As I am writing this, Live is playing, and I am very impressed. The sound is warmer and stronger, but not louder - Nick evidently did his magic without raising the overall volume. The booklet for Live is a four-page thingy with only the Live story and the credits on the inside. Disc labels are The Famous Charisma Pink Scrolls. - Gosh, Pete's flute comes out so well on The Knife!

During the very quiet bits of The Musical Box you can even hear what I think is the base hum of the speakers...

More as my session progresses...

JerseyJoker · 09-19-2009, 06:12 PM

OK, cool, thank you Martin!

Interesting, I wonder why jewel cases vs booklets? I mean, why not put 3SL in a booklet??

But if the details of the recordings are as you seem to indicate -- no real compression added to them -- this is a good thing, they didn't mess up the dynamics. I'll keep my eyes out for more of your reviews.

I'm VERY interested in hearing your thoughts on "Seconds Out"; IE, Steve's parts in the mix (I know Tina was interested, too ...)

JJ

**martinus** · 09-19-2009, 07:52 PM

Some unsorted feedback from other users in the German forum:

- Nick has worked miracles with the Live At The Rainbow 1973 DVD as far as sound quality is concerned. Indeed, he has surpassed all my expectations. [about the promo discs]

- I'm listening to Live. Strong bass, everything much clearer, GREAT!

- Listened into Live, Seconds Out and Rainbow for around 20 minutes each on a bad hi-fi set. This is really a big quality leap: Incredibly clear, dynamic, precise, brillant.

- Listening to Rainbow in stereo. Supper has some of the new vocal tracks. More new tracks for the FoF solo - I am quite relieved at that because Steve's original version from that night is rather ugly... but I would have wished for the original Supper vocals. Rainbow in 5.1 is extremely hot! Cinema Show, Rainbow, in 5.1 - divine! If only TMB has used this version. Incredibly strong, and the ARP synthesizer is so good... Apocalypse, TMB closing section, Rainbow 5.1 - words fail me. It is strange that they stuck to the principle of not changing anything about the setlist, adding no bonus tracks - and anachronistically slap the Lamb tracks on the Live disc and use the 90s overdubs for these tracks. This is meant to be the re-release of an official album, so wtf did they do here?

- Live: Wow, what a sound! The drums sound incredibly good. Every instrument can be heard clearly. Plus bass sound that kicks rear ends! Live bonus tracks: Peter's overdubs were unnecessary, but it sounds very good nevertheless. Particularly enjoy Anyway. Great sound.
Seconds Out: Wow again. Extremely strong bass, Phil sounds very clear, Steve's guitar is a bit louder, but not very much - like it. His guitar used to sound terrible in 1977. This version makes SecOut the best live album ever in my book.
Three Sides Live: Phil does not sound so metallic anymore - finally! Bass sounds are very precise, clear and strong soung. I like it very much now.
Just listening to The Way We Walk. Sounds excellent, too. You can the audience, so it sounds not as dead as before but really (a)live.

- Several things that were changed: The audience calls before The Knife are gone. No "There's no business like show business" at the end of SecOut. No intro before HTBS. Longer intro to Jesus He Knows Me. The outro of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight does not fade out anymore.

- Track divisions on SecOut and 3SL were corrected (on previous CD releases of SecOut Los Endos was split and the track changed only for the Squonk reprise; previous versions of 3SL had One For The Vine split and Salmacis, It/Watcher as one track.

- Spot Collins' name in the newspaper article "PG - an electric Fellini" in the bonus CD booklet.

- Rainbow: No wonder they faded out Moonlit Knight on the Archive box. Mike's rhythm guitar as well as Tony's mellotron go severely off-key at times towards the end. "Harmony" is something else. But it is brave of them to leave it this time.

- It is utter B.S. to include only a couple of Lamb songs (as appetizers, the bonus CD booklet freely admits), and random songs at that, songs that do not even represent the highlights of the album, and slap them on Live where they don't belong. The bonus CD would have been a better place. It is utter B.S. to release 3SL and TWWW as stereo mix only and to "explain" this with the stupid argument that you can get the 5.1 version on the corresponding concert DVD (ignoring the fact that those have different versions of the songs and even lack from songs [3SL] that are tacked on at the end. It is utter BS that there are no band interviews on the live albums the way they had them for the live albums. It is inconsistent and it is a pity because I would have loved to hear some of their tour memories.

- Check out the playing time of TWWW - why the heck did they leave off Dreaming While You Sleep?

- Don't get me started on the Calling All Stations tour!

- It is great to have Live, Seconds Out and Rainbow in 5.1, but that's it. Everything else is a parade of ignorance and missed opportunities.

- Cover design? What cover design? That's nothing. This grey cube looks as if someone forgot to add the colour. And why don't the covers shine throught the "genesis" logo as on the other boxes?

JerseyJoker · 09-19-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinus

Some unsorted feedback from other users in the German forum:

- ... Steve's guitar is a bit louder, but not very much - like it. His guitar used to sound terrible in 1977. This version makes SecOut the best live album ever in my book.

THIS is what I was looking for! Just hoping they would bring up Steve's guitar in the mix, and it appears they did just that, based on this feedback.

See Tina??

Lots of other great comments, and some obvious ones (Like, what's with 5 random "...Lamb..." tracks... and they're not even on the Bonus disc ... clearly a valid point.)

Thanks for posting, Martin ... I guess it's good I'm working this weekend, I'll need the extra cash.

**martinus** · 09-19-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyJoker

Lots of other great comments, and some obvious ones (Like, what's with 5 random "...Lamb..." tracks... and they're not even on the Bonus disc ... clearly a valid point.)

Sort of. All known bootlegs of the Shrine, LA, Lamb shows have only these five tracks so presumably this is all that Nick Davis had to work on. Why they did not pick another show (there are full Lamb live shows after all) is beyond me.

**martinus** · 09-20-2009, 01:48 PM

Alright, the second's in, which is, of course, Seconds Out.

Disc labels have a stage shot, very nice. The sound? As if you had pulled a couple of heavy curtains from the speakers. You can hear the bass pedals now.

Afterglow is absolutely glorious.

Al Murray sums it up nicely in his essay on Seconds Out in the booklet: Please don't waste any more time reading these notes when you could be listening to the album.

Oh, the reason Seconds Out comes in a book and 3SL & WWW in jewel cases: SecOut has three discs (stereo 1+2, 5.1DVD), while the others don't have the 5.1 mix disc.

Second Oh: Everything I have said in this first impressions thread concerns the stereo mixes. Haven't listened in to the surround versions yet.

JerseyJoker · 09-21-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinus

Alright, the second's in, which is, of course, Seconds Out.

Disc labels have a stage shot, very nice. The sound? As if you had pulled a couple of heavy curtains from the speakers. You can hear the bass pedals now.

Afterglow is absolutely glorious.

Al Murray sums it up nicely in his essay on Seconds Out in the booklet: Please don't waste any more time reading these notes when you could be listening to the album.

Oh, the reason Seconds Out comes in a book and 3SL & WWW in jewel cases: SecOut has three discs (stereo 1+2, 5.1DVD), while the others don't have the 5.1 mix disc.

Second Oh: Everything I have said in this first impressions thread concerns the stereo mixes. Haven't listened in to the surround versions yet.

Martin,

Thank you for this information. It looks like I will have to take the plunge and get this box. And I haven't even gotten the new Beatles Box set yet. Good grief -- decisions, decisions ...

**martinus** · 09-21-2009, 04:37 PM

i could send you mine. For reasons beyond my comprehension amazon decided to send me two of the buggers, so I've got a spare one.
Don't worry about video formats, the live box is NTSC world-wide.

**martinus** · 09-21-2009, 04:39 PM

Three Sides Live: The original sounded very - compressed is the word, I think: metallic and flat. I still find the bass could be stronger, but the overall quality has improved very much.

JerseyJoker · 09-21-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinus

i could send you mine. For reasons beyond my comprehension amazon decided to send me two of the buggers, so I've got a spare one.
Don't worry about video formats, the live box is NTSC world-wide.

Uhh... don't tease me!!

I'd be very interested!

One question involving the "Genesis Live" tracks:
A fan posted (in the Yahoo group Shackett) how on the original vinyl and subsequent CD's, Steve Hackett is primarily in the left channel for Watcher of the Skies & Hogweed, but is in the right channel for the other 3 tracks. Had you noticed if that applies to the Stereo mix from the Box?

Maybe they provided some "conceptual continuity" in the stereo field by keeping Steve in the Left Channel, which (I would think) is where he belongs -- considering the usual stage set-up. And of course, Tony would be on the right.

09-19-2009, 03:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
martinus Administrator Site Admin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,423	Live 1973-2007 - first impressions Alright. Got my box set. First impressions: The outside: It's black. Live, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk are in standard 2CD jewel cases. Seconds Out comes in a book (like The Lamb in the green box), and so do the bonus discs. There is an empty slot with a jewel-case size cardboard sign that has the LOE cover on one side and says "This space is reserved for your copy of Live over Europe 2007" on the back. Unfortunately, Live Over Europe fits in there only without its cardboard sleeve. As I am writing this, Live is playing, and I am very impressed. The sound is warmer and stronger, but not louder - Nick evidently did his magic without raising the overall volume. The booklet for Live is a four-page thingy with only the Live story and the credits on the inside. Disc labels are The Famous Charisma Pink Scrolls. - Gosh, Pete's flute comes out so well on The Knife! During the very quiet bits of The Musical Box you can even hear what I think is the base hum of the speakers... More as my session progresses... __________________ ... cried a voice in the crowd. (>60%) Martinus supports Amnesty International. Last edited by martinus : 09-19-2009 at 03:30 PM.

09-19-2009, 06:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
JerseyJoker GNC Forum User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Laurel, MD Posts: 324	OK, so now I'm leaning more towards ... OK, cool, thank you Martin! Interesting, I wonder why jewel cases vs booklets? I mean, why not put 3SL in a booklet?? But if the details of the recordings are as you seem to indicate -- no real compression added to them -- this is a good thing, they didn't mess up the dynamics. I'll keep my eyes out for more of your reviews. I'm VERY interested in hearing your thoughts on "Seconds Out"; IE, Steve's parts in the mix (I know Tina was interested, too ...) JJ

09-19-2009, 07:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
martinus Administrator Site Admin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,423	Some unsorted feedback from other users in the German forum: - Nick has worked miracles with the Live At The Rainbow 1973 DVD as far as sound quality is concerned. Indeed, he has surpassed all my expectations. [about the promo discs] - I'm listening to Live. Strong bass, everything much clearer, GREAT! - Listened into Live, Seconds Out and Rainbow for around 20 minutes each on a bad hi-fi set. This is really a big quality leap: Incredibly clear, dynamic, precise, brillant. - Listening to Rainbow in stereo. Supper has some of the new vocal tracks. More new tracks for the FoF solo - I am quite relieved at that because Steve's original version from that night is rather ugly... but I would have wished for the original Supper vocals. Rainbow in 5.1 is extremely hot! Cinema Show, Rainbow, in 5.1 - divine! If only TMB has used this version. Incredibly strong, and the ARP synthesizer is so good... Apocalypse, TMB closing section, Rainbow 5.1 - words fail me. It is strange that they stuck to the principle of not changing anything about the setlist, adding no bonus tracks - and anachronistically slap the Lamb tracks on the Live disc and use the 90s overdubs for these tracks. This is meant to be the re-release of an official album, so wtf did they do here? - Live: Wow, what a sound! The drums sound incredibly good. Every instrument can be heard clearly. Plus bass sound that kicks rear ends! Live bonus tracks: Peter's overdubs were unnecessary, but it sounds very good nevertheless. Particularly enjoy Anyway. Great sound. Seconds Out: Wow again. Extremely strong bass, Phil sounds very clear, Steve's guitar is a bit louder, but not very much - like it. His guitar used to sound terrible in 1977. This version makes SecOut the best live album ever in my book. Three Sides Live: Phil does not sound so metallic anymore - finally! Bass sounds are very precise, clear and strong soung. I like it very much now. Just listening to The Way We Walk. Sounds excellent, too. You can the audience, so it sounds not as dead as before but really (a)live. - Several things that were changed: The audience calls before The Knife are gone. No "There's no business like show business" at the end of SecOut. No intro before HTBS. Longer intro to Jesus He Knows Me. The outro of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight does not fade out anymore. - Track divisions on SecOut and 3SL were corrected (on previous CD releases of SecOut Los Endos was split and the track changed only for the Squonk reprise; previous versions of 3SL had One For The Vine split and Salmacis, It/Watcher as one track. - Spot Collins' name in the newspaper article "PG - an electric Fellini" in the bonus CD booklet. - Rainbow: No wonder they faded out Moonlit Knight on the Archive box. Mike's rhythm guitar as well as Tony's mellotron go severely off-key at times towards the end. "Harmony" is something else. But it is brave of them to leave it this time. - It is utter B.S. to include only a couple of Lamb songs (as appetizers, the bonus CD booklet freely admits), and random songs at that, songs that do not even represent the highlights of the album, and slap them on Live where they don't belong. The bonus CD would have been a better place. It is utter B.S. to release 3SL and TWWW as stereo mix only and to "explain" this with the stupid argument that you can get the 5.1 version on the corresponding concert DVD (ignoring the fact that those have different versions of the songs and even lack from songs [3SL] that are tacked on at the end. It is utter BS that there are no band interviews on the live albums the way they had them for the live albums. It is inconsistent and it is a pity because I would have loved to hear some of their tour memories. - Check out the playing time of TWWW - why the heck did they leave off Dreaming While You Sleep? - Don't get me started on the Calling All Stations tour! - It is great to have Live, Seconds Out and Rainbow in 5.1, but that's it. Everything else is a parade of ignorance and missed opportunities. - Cover design? What cover design? That's nothing. This grey cube looks as if someone forgot to add the colour. And why don't the covers shine throught the "genesis" logo as on the other boxes? __________________ ... cried a voice in the crowd. (>60%) Martinus supports Amnesty International.

09-20-2009, 01:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
martinus Administrator Site Admin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,423	Alright, the second's in, which is, of course, Seconds Out. Disc labels have a stage shot, very nice. The sound? As if you had pulled a couple of heavy curtains from the speakers. You can hear the bass pedals now. Afterglow is absolutely glorious. Al Murray sums it up nicely in his essay on Seconds Out in the booklet: Please don't waste any more time reading these notes when you could be listening to the album. Oh, the reason Seconds Out comes in a book and 3SL & WWW in jewel cases: SecOut has three discs (stereo 1+2, 5.1DVD), while the others don't have the 5.1 mix disc. Second Oh: Everything I have said in this first impressions thread concerns the stereo mixes. Haven't listened in to the surround versions yet. __________________ ... cried a voice in the crowd. (>60%) Martinus supports Amnesty International.

09-21-2009, 04:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
martinus Administrator Site Admin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,423	i could send you mine. For reasons beyond my comprehension amazon decided to send me two of the buggers, so I've got a spare one. Don't worry about video formats, the live box is NTSC world-wide. __________________ ... cried a voice in the crowd. (>60%) Martinus supports Amnesty International.

09-21-2009, 04:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
martinus Administrator Site Admin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,423	Three Sides Live: The original sounded very - compressed is the word, I think: metallic and flat. I still find the bass could be stronger, but the overall quality has improved very much. __________________ ... cried a voice in the crowd. (>60%) Martinus supports Amnesty International.

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