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[Squonkman]

Originally Posted by Numbskull

Just heard the stereo mixes as my room is not condusive to a surround system.
Nevertheless, one would expect the stereo mixes to be treated to an excellent and sympathetic mastering, which has not been the case. The stereo mixes just sound flat and cold and harsh, and completely lacking in dynamics or warmth (and I have quite a warm sounding system). Abacab - from the middle box - is a very good example of an album that was previously very punchy and dynamic, and is now just lifeless.

I have also heard from a small minority that the surround mix is a little over-compressed (although most seem to love it, to be fair).

When I first heard the TIOA Tour Edition CD, I was honestly completely disgusted with the results, so pledged not to get the 80's boxset.
The original TIOA CD actually sounds very nice by comparison (this one was not mastered by Tony Cousins, which may be a factor - not criticising him, it's just he may have a different mastering style that I particularly despise).

What kind of a sound system do you have? CD player, amp, speakers? Hi resolution formats demand good quality equipment to be heard properly on. A mediocre or bad stereo system will make these sound even worse. For instance, a bad car stereo system won't be able to handle the superior resolution and detail of these cds, and it will come out sounding like mishmash.

For example, try playing a really good well mastered clean looking DVD of a good movie on an old TV you bought years ago from Walmart. Now watch that same DVD on a nice properly calibrated television with a superior picture, on an upconverting DVD player. There will be no comparison. I think a lot of people who are complaining of overcompression etc may not have the stereo equipment to take advantage of the superior technology. I don't know if that applies in your case, but I have seen this come up before.

[Numbskull]

Originally Posted by Squonkman

What kind of a sound system do you have? CD player, amp, speakers? Hi resolution formats demand good quality equipment to be heard properly on. A mediocre or bad stereo system will make these sound even worse. For instance, a bad car stereo system won't be able to handle the superior resolution and detail of these cds, and it will come out sounding like mishmash.

I have a reasonably nice separates system, yeah - not top notch, but still very tasty. Just CD, not SACD. It's not my equipment that makes the Genesis remixes sound over-compressed. For example, if I play The Dark Side Of The Moon stereo remix - or even a previous issue of a classic Genesis album like, say 'Selling England' or 'Abacab' or 'We Can't Dance', the dynamics just jump out at me from my speakers (Mordaunt Short floorstanders). You can feel every beat of Phil's bass drum, and the power of the snare and toms on the later albums (and ATOTT) is wonderful.

But on the remixed masters, these dynamics have been shaved off, quite drastically, IMO.

It's not just with Genesis (my favourite band of all time) - this is a recognised phenomenon with a great many modern masters and remasters. Heavy compression is a recognised current trend (just google 'loudness war' to read what it's all about). As well as a small number of Genesis fans being up in arms about this, there are also a few Police fans and even Abba fans who are disappointed with later remixes and remasters, due to the flat squashed new sound.

Happily, I have bought other remasters/remixes that sound wonderfully fresh and dynamic. The Yes remasters (not remixed) are quite good, but still a little flat for my liking. The Beatles remixes on the Love album are really fantastic (ignoring some of the rather gimmicky remix ideas) - all the warmth and punch of the originals has been preserved, with the benefit of extra clarity gained by remixing and mastering digitally.

So it couldn't possibly be my equipment causing this phenomenon. A good stereo system is not capable of inducing this kind of selective compression/limiting like that. By the way, I also have a pair of Sennheiser HD650 headphones (reference quality) and so know that the problem lies with the sounds of the CDs themselves.

I hasten to add: I refer only to the stereo mixes/masters, so if you are enjoying the 5.1 mixes then that's great.

For those interested in researching this phenomenon further, I find this link really interesting:
YouTube - The Loudness War

[Danlaw83]

This is the way to discuss on a message board, IMO. See I respect Numb's opinion just based on the way it was presented. I will agree, there are parts on the Stereo mixes that kinda miss that punch, but the 5.1 is PERFECTION!