Would anything on the trio albums have fit well on the previous albums?

  • I agree re: You’re Own Special Way. It’s completely forgettable. I disagree completely about One for the Vine. I think it’s a beautiful song. We can agree to disagree on that one.

    I have to say I keep hearing this from fans about YOSW. I really like it . I think I thought it was it was OK when first out but it's grown on me more and more over the last 44 years. The vocals on the chorus are strong. A lot of people have said they would have prefered IAO on the album , a song I find quite limp. It has very proggy instrumentals but they are very weak compared to other Genesis instrumentals that are all over W&W so deserves the EP treatment. YOSW to me fits beautifully in Wind and Wuthering. I felt it was time it stick up for a great song so frequently slated. I can't see it on any other album , BUT , as a song it does compare to Visions Of Angels as in it's a love song with gentle verses and stronger fuller chorus .I prefer YOSW for its fuller sound and it's beautifully sparse interlude. The understated guitar work really makes it for me too. Am not knocking VOA I really like it, the instrumental sells it . Also most fans love OFTV. One of their very best.

    Edited once, last by thefarmer ().

  • I have to say I keep hearing this from fans about YOSW. I really like it . I think I thought it was it was OK when first out but it's grown on me more and more over the last 44 years. The vocals on the chorus are strong. A lot of people have said they would have prefered IAO on the album , a song I find quite limp. It has very proggy instrumentals but they are very weak compared to other Genesis instrumentals that are all over W&W so deserves the EP treatment. YOSW to me fits beautifully in Wind and Wuthering. I felt it was time it stick up for a great song so frequently slated. I can't see it on any other album , BUT , as a song it does compare to Visions Of Angels as in it's a love song with gentle verses and stronger fuller chorus .I prefer YOSW for its fuller sound and it's beautifully sparse interlude. The understated guitar work really makes it for me too. Am not knocking VOA I really like it, the instrumental sells it . Also most fans love OFTV. One of their very best.

    I bought the album in 1980, I was 16 and I remember liking the song, probably because I was infatuated with some girl whose name I've long forgotten. Its charm wore out pretty rapidly though and I must say, it's probably their worste song up to that point, they did worse on the following album of course. Musically, apart from the excessive saccharine, it sounds stitched together, many songs are but here it doesn't seem to work, verses, Chorus and instrumental sound disjointed and patched together unseamlessly.

    I understand the parallel with Vision of Angels but see, they were 19 I believe and there's an innocence and sincerity to it that makes me favor it. If I remember correctly it was something Ant wrote, having a crush on Peter's girlfriend. Those seasoned musicians, with several epic albums under their belt, let alone their life experience, couldn't possibly have the same Innocence and sincerity.

    I think they were just trying to have a single.

    Edited once, last by Fabrizio ().

  • YOSW is far from my favourite track, but I don't mind it. The live version from the Australian portion of the IT tour is quite nice.


    While I can draw musical lines from various 3-man era songs back to the 5-man era, they were really writing differently by this point. They were often jamming as guitar, keyboards, and vocals, with a drum machine providing the basic rhythm. This is not going to naturally lead to a song that suits a 5-man band without considerable retooling. Plus they were deliberately trying to make a break from their earlier music, so even if they came up with something that sounded more 5-man era-isa, they might abandon it in favour of something that sounded newer and fresher.


    So once you get past Duke, I can't think of much that would have fit well on earlier albums.

  • YOSW is far from my favourite track, but I don't mind it. The live version from the Australian portion of the IT tour is quite nice.


    While I can draw musical lines from various 3-man era songs back to the 5-man era, they were really writing differently by this point. They were often jamming as guitar, keyboards, and vocals, with a drum machine providing the basic rhythm. This is not going to naturally lead to a song that suits a 5-man band without considerable retooling. Plus they were deliberately trying to make a break from their earlier music, so even if they came up with something that sounded more 5-man era-isa, they might abandon it in favour of something that sounded newer and fresher.


    So once you get past Duke, I can't think of much that would have fit well on earlier albums.

    What is you is true but there are things like style and sound that remain and unavoidably peek through and rear their head. When you hear the keyboards intro to If that's what you need on CAS for instance, that is unmistakably Tony and consequently Genesis, I'm not saying that song would have fit on previous albums, in fact I don't think it does but some elements always stick around.

    As I said, I believe something like the Dividing Line would have fit, sure the sound is very modern but if you strip it down, I have no trouble imaging it on the Lamb with stuff like BINYC, Cage or The Colony of Slippermen. Dodo is reminiscent of their more epic and bombastic moments and personally I can imagine Peter singing that. Domino is another one, we get distracted by the mid 80s keyboards and drums sound but to its core, it is just another Tony's song and they've always been around.

  • What is you is true but there are things like style and sound that remain and unavoidably peek through and rear their head. When you hear the keyboards intro to If that's what you need on CAS for instance, that is unmistakably Tony and consequently Genesis, I'm not saying that song would have fit on previous albums, in fact I don't think it does but some elements always stick around.

    As I said, I believe something like the Dividing Line would have fit, sure the sound is very modern but if you strip it down, I have no trouble imaging it on the Lamb with stuff like BINYC, Cage or The Colony of Slippermen. Dodo is reminiscent of their more epic and bombastic moments and personally I can imagine Peter singing that. Domino is another one, we get distracted by the mid 80s keyboards and drums sound but to its core, it is just another Tony's song and they've always been around.

    I get what you mean, though I don't quite agree. As many of us have said over the years, Tony is the essential core of Genesis and so Tony's keyboard parts can make anything sound like Genesis throughout all the years. The keyboard intro on If That's What You Need is definitely Tony. But it is a different Tony than from the early 70s. He is mainly staying in one key - the main modulation comes with "And if there is any kind of danger...", and it is a minor modulation. It is more typical of later Tony parts, where he moves around more or less in the same key, changing shades rather than major harmonic departures. Songs like Hold On My Heart and Fading Lights are similar in this kind of way.


    I quite like The Dividing Line. Again it is much simpler, with the intro staying in the same key over just 4 chords and Tony using a pretty repetitive motif. There is a modulation to the verses, which are otherwise pretty simple chordally. The most adventurous bit is the bridge ("In the comfort and safety of your own home... "). None of this seems musically like Tony's parts of The Lamb to my ears, which have more modulation and more intricate rhythm patterns. So even if you were to play The Dividing Line on say a Pro Soloist over a backing organ, I think it would sound quite different than music of that era.

  • I get what you mean, though I don't quite agree. As many of us have said over the years, Tony is the essential core of Genesis and so Tony's keyboard parts can make anything sound like Genesis throughout all the years. The keyboard intro on If That's What You Need is definitely Tony. But it is a different Tony than from the early 70s. He is mainly staying in one key - the main modulation comes with "And if there is any kind of danger...", and it is a minor modulation. It is more typical of later Tony parts, where he moves around more or less in the same key, changing shades rather than major harmonic departures. Songs like Hold On My Heart and Fading Lights are similar in this kind of way.


    I quite like The Dividing Line. Again it is much simpler, with the intro staying in the same key over just 4 chords and Tony using a pretty repetitive motif. There is a modulation to the verses, which are otherwise pretty simple chordally. The most adventurous bit is the bridge ("In the comfort and safety of your own home... "). None of this seems musically like Tony's parts of The Lamb to my ears, which have more modulation and more intricate rhythm patterns. So even if you were to play The Dividing Line on say a Pro Soloist over a backing organ, I think it would sound quite different than music of that era.

    I mentioned songs that I thought could have fit but to be clear, not because I particularly like them TDL is nice so it's Dodo which sort of stands out on a quite imo weak album but If that's what you need, isn't really my cup of tea and Domino rubs me the wrong way, although I cannot really say why. You'll get no argument from me that Tony kept things simpler, it actually applies to the whole band, Phil playing backbeats and Mike not being Steve but I was referring more to the general atmosphere conjured up by some chords changes. There's a Youtube channel, Rick Beato where he has a series: What makes this song great. He talks about different songs, detailing production, structure, chords, arrangement and musicianship. There's an episode on Dance on a Volcano which I think you'd appreciate in case you don't already know it. It's a good example of the complexity Genesis dealt with back then. What Makes This Song Great Ep. 57 Genesis - YouTube

  • I mentioned songs that I thought could have fit but to be clear, not because I particularly like them TDL is nice so it's Dodo which sort of stands out on a quite imo weak album but If that's what you need, isn't really my cup of tea and Domino rubs me the wrong way, although I cannot really say why. You'll get no argument from me that Tony kept things simpler, it actually applies to the whole band, Phil playing backbeats and Mike not being Steve but I was referring more to the general atmosphere conjured up by some chords changes. There's a Youtube channel, Rick Beato where he has a series: What makes this song great. He talks about different songs, detailing production, structure, chords, arrangement and musicianship. There's an episode on Dance on a Volcano which I think you'd appreciate in case you don't already know it. It's a good example of the complexity Genesis dealt with back then. What Makes This Song Great Ep. 57 Genesis - YouTube

    I think Dodo is great. I think it is also much simpler than the earlier songs. There's a bit of interesting dissonance in the opening chords and the linking section before the next verse. But the verses are pretty simple, just moving between two chords. The next section is also just two chords, with no modulation from the verses. There is a modulation to the next section (the "in the sea" part), which is essentially just one chord. I think of Dodo as a groove song, which is very different from their earlier material. I also like the Lurker section, but would again compare its simplicity to The Raven section of Slipperman, to which it has a passing resemblance.


    Thanks for the rec of the Rick Beato episode. I have seen it before and really like how it shows how much Genesis could pack into just a few seconds of a song.

  • I think Dodo is great. I think it is also much simpler than the earlier songs. There's a bit of interesting dissonance in the opening chords and the linking section before the next verse. But the verses are pretty simple, just moving between two chords. The next section is also just two chords, with no modulation from the verses. There is a modulation to the next section (the "in the sea" part), which is essentially just one chord. I think of Dodo as a groove song, which is very different from their earlier material. I also like the Lurker section, but would again compare its simplicity to The Raven section of Slipperman, to which it has a passing resemblance.


    Thanks for the rec of the Rick Beato episode. I have seen it before and really like how it shows how much Genesis could pack into just a few seconds of a song.

    I agree re: Dodo. It's a groove song (as a point of comparison it's hard to imagine Phil singing "Yow, Yow" in the middle of Firth of Fifth) with tinges of prog thrown in, courtesy of Tony's keys in the intro, Lurker, and outro.