The rushes do indeed exist.
But as with any project, it has to have a certain sales return. In order for the project to be viable.
TGA
But as with any project, it has to have a certain sales return. In order for the project to be viable.
Tony Smith will almost certainly have done the maths already! 
how do we get them to re-release the full concert with the additional 45 minutes?
"We" don't.
QuoteWould be a lot of interest in releasing this
There'd be some, less than you think.
Quoteit deserves a full release.
There's no "deserves" about it. I'd certainly like to see a restored full show but they don't owe it to us. If they ever feel any compelling urge to release that material, they will. It's theirs to do with it what they feel is best.
"We" don't.
There'd be some, less than you think.
There's no "deserves" about it. I'd certainly like to see a restored full show but they don't owe it to us. If they ever feel any compelling urge to release that material, they will. It's theirs to do with it what they feel is best.
I agree with this, and would absolutely love to see the full show. What I would say though is that Genesis rarely seem to have that compelling urge you refer to. I am happy with the archives and boxsets etc, but when you see other bands releasing preposterously massive sets down to "demo #8 acoustic" or whatever, it makes me think the commercial value of those type of releases isn't always the only factor and that there are artists out there who want to get material out to fans and acknowledge that not every release is going to be a bumper payday.
Ultimately of course it's up to the artist but it seems like Genesis have really good quality material they *could* release if they so choose, in comparison to other artists who have stripped the cupboard bare and left nothing.
Someone had pieced together the full show, and put it on YouTube. The songs that were cut from the official release were of mixed quality. Some of them were pretty good, other sources were ... not great. But it was still nice to be able to see the full show, after having only known the official. I managed to find it a couple times, but not recently.
Someone also did the same thing with the Invisible Touch tour. There were a lot of comments / complaints about where songs actually belonged in the set, because they used the US version of The Cage Medley (with the end of Supper's), but that caused it to not be accurate to the running order of the rest of the show (from Wembley). Can you imagine ... a bunch of Genesis fans being irritated that something wasn't accurate to the original? We're all so calm and easy going! Anyway, that one I only found once, about a year or so ago, but I haven't seen it on YouTube since.
Genesis rarely seem to have that compelling urge you refer to. I am happy with the archives and boxsets etc, but when you see other bands releasing preposterously massive sets down to "demo #8 acoustic" or whatever, it makes me think the commercial value of those type of releases isn't always the only factor and that there are artists out there who want to get material out to fans and acknowledge that not every release is going to be a bumper payday.
Ultimately of course it's up to the artist but it seems like Genesis have really good quality material they *could* release if they so choose, in comparison to other artists who have stripped the cupboard bare and left nothing.
Oh, they absolutely are not that sort of band. They're extremely picky about what gets released under the Genesis banner and are one of the least "sentimental" bands (if that's the right term) about their old material. My "if they ever have the urge" comment came with an implied "which is highly unlikely". For such reasons I was very surprised by the Archive sets, especially the first one. It was their most uncharacteristic release.
I understand the reasons other than purely business-related ones for an artist releasing archive material, nothing wrong with that at all. But quite simply, we are dealing here with a band (and manager too, as touched on earlier) who just don't think that way.
Don't get me wrong, as I said I'd always be very intrigued by Genesis archive releases whether they're audio or video. I'd like it if someone did a major clean-up job on some of that Headley Grange Lamb stuff, I love that slow one with the ferocious fuzz bass. I'd play a buffed-up version of that on rotation! But I've long since accepted nothing like that will ever officially happen.
Someone had pieced together the full show, and put it on YouTube. The songs that were cut from the official release were of mixed quality. Some of them were pretty good, other sources were ... not great. But it was still nice to be able to see the full show, after having only known the official. I managed to find it a couple times, but not recently.
Someone also did the same thing with the Invisible Touch tour. There were a lot of comments / complaints about where songs actually belonged in the set, because they used the US version of The Cage Medley (with the end of Supper's), but that caused it to not be accurate to the running order of the rest of the show (from Wembley). Can you imagine ... a bunch of Genesis fans being irritated that something wasn't accurate to the original? We're all so calm and easy going! Anyway, that one I only found once, about a year or so ago, but I haven't seen it on YouTube since.
Some of those sources came from a friend of the band, who was permitted to film. We were livid that our exclusive footage, was stolen are reuploaded.
Other elements were from sources that we again obtained, we demanded that they were taken down.
We spent time, energy, money and have put up some of these items on our Youtube. They are not for chancers or Assh***s to steal and repost.
Genesis have in their archive or access to the directors archive of their own material. The director remembers sending the band an edit of the Mama tour video complete with Los Endos, which they cut from the final release.
As for archival stuff, there is a full pro shot of Mike and the mechanics from The Greek Theatre in 1989, Phil Collins in Singapore 1995 etc. But the band / members have no desire to release it. There is a pro shot of Genesis during the WCD 1992 tour, in the USA (no not Texas). But that's not seen the light of day either.
TGA
Display MoreSome of those sources came from a friend of the band, who was permitted to film. We were livid that our exclusive footage, was stolen are reuploaded.
Other elements were from sources that we again obtained, we demanded that they were taken down.
We spent time, energy, money and have put up some of these items on our Youtube. They are not for chancers or Assh***s to steal and repost.
TGA
Fair enough. I hadn't noticed who the posters of either of those videos had been, or if they mentioned any of the alternate sources (I'm sure not). If that was your stuff that someone else took to put those full cuts together, I can totally understand you wanting them removed.
I just find it frustrating that even with Phil's videos and show's they get cut or edited in a way that is annoying.
I think they all used same video guy, probably one reason why they are like this.
No, its the bands/artists choice.
He doesn't cut the final release.
TGA
Display MoreSome of those sources came from a friend of the band, who was permitted to film. We were livid that our exclusive footage, was stolen are reuploaded.
Other elements were from sources that we again obtained, we demanded that they were taken down.
We spent time, energy, money and have put up some of these items on our Youtube. They are not for chancers or Assh***s to steal and repost.
Genesis have in their archive or access to the directors archive of their own material. The director remembers sending the band an edit of the Mama tour video complete with Los Endos, which they cut from the final release.
As for archival stuff, there is a full pro shot of Mike and the mechanics from The Greek Theatre in 1989, Phil Collins in Singapore 1995 etc. But the band / members have no desire to release it. There is a pro shot of Genesis during the WCD 1992 tour, in the USA (no not Texas). But that's not seen the light of day either.
TGA
What exactly was the footage that was stolen? Something from the Mama tour or Invisible Touch tour?
As for archival stuff, there is a full pro shot of Mike and the mechanics from The Greek Theatre in 1989, Phil Collins in Singapore 1995 etc. But the band / members have no desire to release it. There is a pro shot of Genesis during the WCD 1992 tour, in the USA (no not Texas). But that's not seen the light of day either.
TGA
Genesis in '92 and Phil in '95 I'd be very interested in. And there's clearly other professional/high quality material gathering dust (the Mama tour material a case in point). And it is theirs to do with as they please.
It seems probable to me at this point that it is likely to continue gathering dust forever. Ie we'll never see it. The_Genesis_Archive (or anyone with more knowledge than I) is this your impression too?
Genesis Archive,
I was wondering if your organization has ever tried to approach Genesis Management with any offer to organize an official’s archive. You, along with some other groups have been able to locate, curate and release many rare and interesting photos, films as well as audio. It seems Genesis has never been interested in creating this kind of project. I think it has been done with some other bands where fan groups partner?
Just curious
Paul
Genesis Archive,
I was wondering if your organization has ever tried to approach Genesis Management with any offer to organize an official’s archive. You, along with some other groups have been able to locate, curate and release many rare and interesting photos, films as well as audio. It seems Genesis has never been interested in creating this kind of project. I think it has been done with some other bands where fan groups partner?
Just curious
Paul
Whilst that is a great idea Paul, I believe Genesis are more aware of their archive than they let on. Traditionally Archives are private, with records only being kept for insurance purposes. Genesis have some of their films and multi track tapes, in a temperature controlled storage facility near Heathrow, in the same place Led Zeppelin and some Monty Python stuff is kept there. The storage facility is used by other persons also.
Genesis might have suffered from the 1980's throw away culture, in which companies like Charisma threw away master tapes, this could explain why Steve Hackett / Virgin Records (now owned by Universal) could not find some of his early master tapes.
I would also assume that the management would consider us amateurs with no professional credentials, thus rendering a project null and void.
TGA
I guess as painful as it is to know there are no active plans to get this to the fans, it's heartening to at least know such footage exists. It'd be so amazing to see a full Mama Tour, full Invisible Touch Tour, Mechanics with Paul Young, Phil's Both Sides Tour from Singapore... and anything else from the archives.
I personally don't think the band themselves are motivated by profitability, but others that run the business side perhaps are. The best we can hope for would be a decent third party brokering a deal whereby they would take on the financial risk, and put together some releases. The Eagle Rock SD Blu Ray releases are a case in point.
Again, just one fan's opinion, but I'd love it if The Genesis Archive were involved as we know, love and trust them.
If it exists, then provided it's looked after, then no doubt one day it will one day surface... we just have to hope we're still alive when the day comes!
I guess as painful as it is to know there are no active plans to get this to the fans, it's heartening to at least know such footage exists. It'd be so amazing to see a full Mama Tour, full Invisible Touch Tour, Mechanics with Paul Young, Phil's Both Sides Tour from Singapore... and anything else from the archives.
I personally don't think the band themselves are motivated by profitability, but others that run the business side perhaps are. The best we can hope for would be a decent third party brokering a deal whereby they would take on the financial risk, and put together some releases. The Eagle Rock SD Blu Ray releases are a case in point.
Again, just one fan's opinion, but I'd love it if The Genesis Archive were involved as we know, love and trust them.
If it exists, then provided it's looked after, then no doubt one day it will one day surface... we just have to hope we're still alive when the day comes!
I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes but following the end of Genesis as a live band and, likely, as an entity, I think interest in and motivation for archive releases will now begin a long slow decline. I agree with your assertion the band aren't especially profit-driven, they seem more focused on the quality of such releases and on this basis haven't raided these old tapes for release even while the band was notionally active. The hunger for such releases was always largely restricted to hard-core fans like us lot here and I reckon that fanbase will start to shrink from now. I doubt anything will be released during our lifetimes, if ever.
The band members' children and relatives will presumably take on issues of custody of the tapes etc and it'll be up to them what to do with them or how best to preserve/dispose of them as specified by the band, depending on who has legal ownership of these archive materials.
I think interest in and motivation for archive releases will now begin a long slow decline.
...
The hunger for such releases was always largely restricted to hard-core fans like us lot here and I reckon that fanbase will start to shrink from now.
I'm a little more bullish that interest in the band will remain somewhat stable. If for no other reason than Phil alone being a cultural icon and having intermittent periods of being reappraised and discovered by a new demographic. But apart from that the band's own output seems to have attained a cult status solid enough to secure ongoing interest, and they have become part of the lexicon of prog rock such that they - like Yes, King Crimson etc - will never completely disappear. The band has also been effectively dead for a quarter of a century and staged an extremely successful tour (did I see somewhere highest grossing for the quarter?).
All that being said, I completely agree with the likelihood of archival releases being essentially nil. It's a pity, I shelled out for an autographed 2xLP set of a very early concert by one of my other favorite bands. It came with a little disclaimer that it is an archival release, and while they've optimized the quality, they've balanced that with preserving the recording so that here and there, ambient noises will filter in or whatever. I would love the opportunity to do the same for Genesis, but am completely clear-eyed about the band's approach here. I do hope they enjoy their well earned retirement!
I agree with your assertion the band aren't especially profit-driven, they seem more focused on the quality of such releases and on this basis haven't raided these old tapes for release even while the band was notionally active.
I agree as well. If they were more profit-driven all those hundreds of bootleg concert recordings wouldn't be available on YoutTube. There are plenty of Genesis concert recordings on that platform of sufficient quality to keep me more than happy (see for example the recent upload of a soundboard recording of the Sao Paulo show in 1977). Thank goodness they aren't driven by the almighty dollar/pound like certain other recording artists over the years have been (e.g. Van Morrison; Eagles; Neil Young).
