Nothing from Abacab again

  • f they played nothing from it on the last few tours, that does not necessarily mean the band shared your dismissive opinon of it. .

    No, of course it doesn't necessarily mean that, it might though, it's not something you can discard.

    I'm sure there are songs, from other albums, they are not particularly keen on they feel they have to play, for whatever reason but ultimately the fact that Abacab was dropped entirely and consistently probably means something, doesn't it? Whether it's because the band don't stand behind it anymore or they feel the majority of the fans are not crazy about it I really don't know but it's telling. And yes, I am dismissive of it, respectfully but dismissive, I don't think it's a strong album and I don't believe Genesis will be remembered by it.

  • They haven't exactly pushed Wind & Wuthering either. They played Afterglow in 2007.

    True and that applies to Trick too but I would say several songs of those albums don't translate well live and they are quite older anyway. Still, unlike Abacab they constantly ranked very high in any Genesis Forum poll you can think of and G members have expressed their fondness whenever they could, I'd say their status is not in question.

  • As someone who loves Abacab, I'm afraid I have no idea what that means. The album is as 'relevant' as any other album. If they played nothing from it on the last few tours, that does not necessarily mean the band shared your dismissive opinon of it. .

    I agree with you, not sure how it’s not a relevant album in the Genesis catalogue. Dodo/lurker, Me and Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark are pretty solid Genesis tunes in my opinion

  • As someone who loves Abacab, I'm afraid I have no idea what that means. The album is as 'relevant' as any other album. If they played nothing from it on the last few tours, that does not necessarily mean the band shared your dismissive opinon of it. .

    Absolutely right and in fact I'd go further and say it has more relevance than other albums in terms of what it represented. Also true re individual songs - some songs most would probably consider among their best were rarely or never played live. I think Fabrizio probably means he acknowledges Abacab's significance in their journey but just doesn't much like the songs, which is fair enough but I'm sure he can confirm or deny if he wishes.


    Re other points made above, it's also a bit much to expect any album by anyone to 'improve'. You can of course revisit something you previously disliked and reassess it, it's rare but it happens. Personally I can say I like all their albums to differing degrees but none of them have improved!

    Abandon all reason

  • I love Abacab, even though I generally prefer earlier stuff. At the time I thought it was a good move to change the sound and production. It's very punchy, everything is loud and clear and the drumming is superb. All the Genesis ingredients are there, good tunes, great rhythms, fabulous chords, but a less clutter. I don't know why it was overlooked on later tours, maybe the fact that most of songs on there require powerful and often fast vocals ( if that makes sense, I'm no singer but it sounds like a lots of words per minute on the better songs) ruled out the last tour and they wanted to play so much of WCD that it was pushed out of that tour, can't really explain 2007 though. But I like every track on it except I could leave off Man on the Corner and Like it or Not is a bit of an also ran. I even like Another Record, the drum signature just appeals to me. Whodunnit is fine, a bit of fun with and some great sounds. I'd put the rest up there with the best of their work.

  • You can of course revisit something you previously disliked and reassess it, it's rare but it happens.

    That's actually happened to me a lot!


    As for ABACAB, I've never disliked it, but I'll always consider every Genesis album from then on to be not quite as good as most of what came before.

    Little known fact: Before the crowbar was invented...


    ...crows simply drank at home.

  • I love Abacab, even though I generally prefer earlier stuff. At the time I thought it was a good move to change the sound and production. It's very punchy, everything is loud and clear and the drumming is superb. All the Genesis ingredients are there, good tunes, great rhythms, fabulous chords, but a less clutter. I don't know why it was overlooked on later tours, maybe the fact that most of songs on there require powerful and often fast vocals ( if that makes sense, I'm no singer but it sounds like a lots of words per minute on the better songs) ruled out the last tour and they wanted to play so much of WCD that it was pushed out of that tour, can't really explain 2007 though. But I like every track on it except I could leave off Man on the Corner and Like it or Not is a bit of an also ran. I even like Another Record, the drum signature just appeals to me. Whodunnit is fine, a bit of fun with and some great sounds. I'd put the rest up there with the best of their work.

    I agree with some points you made, ir was definitely time to make a change and the Album is cracking with energy, I just happen to find the material very poor or thin. As for the drums, I think the sound is finally great, Phil had done marvellous things before and on this album, if I don't confuse what he sings with how he sings it, he truly shines as a singer. Again, i don't know why it was dropped live but Phil's current limitations cannot be the reason, he sang Mama, to mention one, didn't he? And it was dropped on the 90s, when this wasn't an issue.

  • I agree with you, not sure how it’s not a relevant album in the Genesis catalogue. Dodo/lurker, Me and Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark are pretty solid Genesis tunes in my opinion

    Abacab certainly has relevance in the Genesis catalogue, it marked a decisive shift in the way the made music and that alone is enough but I was referring to the songs on it and the fact that even if there are a couple of good tunes on it, they are Genesis after all, none of them imo, really stands out or has a place, amongst their many classics. If we are talking about later period songs, much as I loathe Invisible Touch or ICD, Genesis are far more likely to be brought up in connection with those tunes than with any Abacab songs.

  • Abacab has great relevance in their catalog insofar as it served as the intro to their music for a new generation of fans. It was the second album of theirs that I owned. My brother gave me ATTWT as a gift for my 17th birthday. Frankly most of that album fell flat for me at the time. The music on Abacab, on the other hand, sounded fresh and exciting to me. I knew of Genesis’ reputation as an art rock band (a term at the time I’d heard applied to their music more often than prog, for whatever reason). As a 20 year old who’d grown up listening mostly to the Eagles and Neil Young, much of the music on Abacab was like nothing I’d ever heard. I’d include in that list Abacab; Me and Sarah Jane; Keep it Dark; Dodo; WhoDunnit; Man on the Corner. I fell in love with the album and began to work my way back through their catalog. By the time I saw the Encore Tour in August 1982, just 9 months after buying Abacab, I knew the old stuff so well that I was able to sing along to Supper’s Ready, which has become my all-time favorite song by any artist. And it all started with Abacab.

  • Abacab certainly has relevance in the Genesis catalogue, it marked a decisive shift in the way the made music and that alone is enough but I was referring to the songs on it and the fact that even if there are a couple of good tunes on it, they are Genesis after all, none of them imo, really stands out or has a place, amongst their many classics. If we are talking about later period songs, much as I loathe Invisible Touch or ICD, Genesis are far more likely to be brought up in connection with those tunes than with any Abacab songs.

    For me the title track, Dodo/Lurker & Me & Sarah Jane are absolute Genesis classics. I put No Reply At All, Keep It Dark & Man On The Corner just below those. It's not a bad track listing.

  • I agree with some points you made, ir was definitely time to make a change and the Album is cracking with energy, I just happen to find the material very poor or thin.

    I think the first time I heard it, I had the same feeling about it sounding "thin". All I could hear was treble and bass, it sounded like there was no mid. It was so different from the Genesis I had heard until then (which would be a mixture of earlier and later Genesis). I grew to love it though, and I'm still most likely to stick it (or the subsequent album) on if I'm in the mood for a Genesis fix and don't have anything specific in mind.

  • I would suspect that had Phil been able to drum, ABACAB would have featured for sure.


    They had to limit instrumental pieces and perhaps this was the obvious one to drop.


    As it was a fairwell tour, they would always go with the most commercially popular and band favourites rather than throwing in a bit of everything.

  • For me the title track, Dodo/Lurker & Me & Sarah Jane are absolute Genesis classics. I put No Reply At All, Keep It Dark & Man On The Corner just below those. It's not a bad track listing.

    I like Dodo and M&SJ but I think sometimes we all should make an effort to move away from the Idea that what we like is a classic. It's a mix of things: consensus amongst the fans, reviews, commercial success, longevity etc... Those songs simply don't cut it in any of those areas. I don't care about any of the above and I still Ike them, nor do I care whether the band like them or less but excellence can never determined by one's taste.

  • I like Dodo and M&SJ but I think sometimes we all should make an effort to move away from the Idea that what we like is a classic. It's a mix of things: consensus amongst the fans, reviews, commercial success, longevity etc... Those songs simply don't cut it in any of those areas. I don't care about any of the above and I still Ike them, nor do I care whether the band like them or less but excellence can never determined by one's taste.

    It all depends on your definition of “classic.” By the most strict definition the last “classic” Genesis was found on W & W: Eleventh Earl; One for the Vine; USFTS/ITQE/Afterglow. Hell, some would even claim (incorrectly I think) that the “classic” era of the band ended when Gabriel left. I do think that certain songs post W & W deserve the classic label, with the last song that fits that category being Dodo. It was the last truly prog sounding song they did, complete with bombastic synths and a quirky, inventive keyboard solo (albeit a short one). I enjoy Home by the Sea/Second Home, Domino (though not as much as HBTS), and Fading Lights, but those songs lack the truly inventive qualities of previous songs (including Dodo).

  • It all depends on your definition of “classic.” By the most strict definition the last “classic” Genesis was found on W & W: Eleventh Earl; One for the Vine; USFTS/ITQE/Afterglow. Hell, some would even claim (incorrectly I think) that the “classic” era of the band ended when Gabriel left. I do think that certain songs post W & W deserve the classic label, with the last song that fits that category being Dodo. It was the last truly prog sounding song they did, complete with bombastic synths and a quirky, inventive keyboard solo (albeit a short one). I enjoy Home by the Sea/Second Home, Domino (though not as much as HBTS), and Fading Lights, but those songs lack the truly inventive qualities of previous songs (including Dodo).

    I gave some parameters which of course can never be entirely objective but based on those for instance, Turn it on again is certainly a classic, Mama perhaps, so no, their classics don't necessarily end with the 5 man era. As I said stuff like I can't dance or IT is far more likely to be mentioned when talking about Genesis because they are relatively recent and were massively successful, it doesn't matter what I think about them, they are classics and they must play them. As I said I think Dodo and M&SJ are fine songs, keep it dark is intriguing and MOTC a nice listen no more than that.

    Edited once, last by Fabrizio ().

  • For me Genesis "classic" are Gabriel and Hackett Years.


    ATTWT, Duke, Abacab, Mama, IT, WCD and CAS albums are pop oriented. :/

    It is entirely possible to have Pop Classics, Genesis' or less, as I said before, personal taste alone doesn't establish what is a classic

    Edited once, last by Fabrizio ().