I regard SEBTP their best!.....
I don't know about picking out albums as a whole but their musical ability as a group always thrilled me. I'm not musically trained either. Sometimes I regret it but if I spent time learning I would certainly have listened to a lot less music than I have and i wonder whether the magical quality I hear would diminish. Having said that I do find Genesis music quite magical, more so than anyone else. I like to listen quite intently on headphones. I often try and focus on the instrumentation. Sometimes it feels like they are all doing different things, or there is a lead and others doing different stuff in the background, and yet somehow it comes together like I jigsaw picture. If anyone else had come up with the carpet crawlers melody I'm sure it would have been nothing more than a pleasant slow tune with a plodding beat if any drums at all ,but there is so much in it. Musically I never cease to be astounded by Apocalypse in 9/8. I don't think anyone else could get anywhere near it.
Apologies, I have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to say that whenever I see its title on the board I always immediately mis-read it as "Most Technically Inept Album".
I suppose that's a whole other thread.
I’m not quite sure what is meant by “technically” in this case. Does it refer to the quality of playing or the quality of production?
In terms of technical ability, Invisible Touch.
But I think the prog fans will always say Selling England as the answer to every question.
Do we mean "technical" as in cutting-edge use of music technology, or as in proficiency of musical technique? If the former, I think we can look at Duke/Abacab/Genesis/IT as the era of the most (then) cutting-edge use of technology: creative use of drum machines, guitar synthesizers, midi controllers, "ducks" (!), early samplers and sequencers... If the latter, I still find "The Lamb" to be extraordinary among the Genesis catalog, but also plenty of highly skilled playing on Trick & WaW.
Most Genesis music has highly skilled playing. I find 'The Lamb' the best for this.
I'll take this to mean technically accomplished playing and probably the only thing I feel a little able to comment on is drumming, as a very humble drummer myself. It seems to me that there is playing of a very high level on all instruments on all albums from Genesis, but in terms or drumming, I'd go for Selling England. The range of skills and delicate techniques on display there is hard to find anywhere else. The playing is hard enough, but the composition and development of such work, that is highly technical and complex, yet so perfectly compliments the music, is a high watermark, even for Phil. Of course his drumming is always superb, but to my ears, I am still discovering new things here after forty-odd years of close listening. He plays like an orchestral drummer at times, like a rocker at others, a bit of jazz-fusion here and there and as a sympathetic band member in the background at other times. At all times he drives things along, loosening potentially stiff arrangements, without ever being showy or dominating. Stunning work.
Phil mentioned the Lamb and that period in general the peak of his technical ability as drummer, I like SEBTP better but in that particular context The Lamb was certainly a progress.
In terms of technical ability, Invisible Touch.
Do you mean musicianship, technical proficiency or something else?
Do you mean musicianship, technical proficiency or something else?
Well, I don’t expect anyone to agree because Genesis fans…but if you look at the supreme ease with which they play live around IT, it seems that they are the most on top of their game at this time, with both the newer and older songs. The older songs may be more complex, but that doesn’t make older Genesis more technically proficient. It just means the songs were more complex. Yes, the drumming is more bad-ass on The Lamb, but I suspect IT-era Phil was more at the height of his ability.
Well, I don’t expect anyone to agree because Genesis fans…but if you look at the supreme ease with which they play live around IT, it seems that they are the most on top of their game at this time, with both the newer and older songs. The older songs may be more complex, but that doesn’t make older Genesis more technically proficient. It just means the songs were more complex. Yes, the drumming is more bad-ass on The Lamb, but I suspect IT-era Phil was more at the height of his ability.
First, let me say I’m not a drummer. Having said that, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that “IT-era Phil was more at the height of his ability.” As much as I love the big, tribal beat Phil played on songs like Intruder, In the Air Tonight, and Mama, to me it led him to favor the “big drum sound” over the jazz-rock stylings that were so prevalent in his earlier playing. It’s like he opted in the 80s for ambience over proficiency.
Well, I don’t expect anyone to agree because Genesis fans…but if you look at the supreme ease with which they play live around IT, it seems that they are the most on top of their game at this time, with both the newer and older songs. The older songs may be more complex, but that doesn’t make older Genesis more technically proficient. It just means the songs were more complex. Yes, the drumming is more bad-ass on The Lamb, but I suspect IT-era Phil was more at the height of his ability.
The conversation doesn't have to necessarily to revolve around Phil, I just mentioned him because he made those comments while talking about his proficiency as an instrumentalist, he talked about the period around the Lamb up to 1980, mentioning his work with Brand X, so at best, you can disagree with him but it is fairly clear that in time, he neglected his drumming in favor of singing and songwriting. Mike wasn't much of a bass player to begin with but progressed at an astonishing rate with every record. Tony has always been solid but a very stiff player, Personally, I feel Steve is the only one who's been continuously progressing on his instrument and has benefited from leaving the group. While it is true that more complex songs doesn't necessarily mean better songs, I think it's hard to deny they require a higher level of proficiency on the instrument, just ask any musician willing to cover those songs.
Do The Neurotic is the sole proof that drumwise, Phil was still at the top of his game in 1986.
Otherwise, since Brand-X was mentionned, I find that Nuclear Burn is just mind blowing. The speed of Phil’s playing is inhuman.
Do The Neurotic is the sole proof that drumwise, Phil was still at the top of his game in 1986.
Otherwise, since Brand-X was mentionned, I find that Nuclear Burn is just mind blowing. The speed of Phil’s playing is inhuman.
I still have John Martyn's Glorious Fool which Phil produced and played drums on, the variety of styles he plays on that album is unbelievable. and I think it was 1980 0r 81 but again, it depends on what is meant by ''at the top of their game'', they were sure better at using the studio and getting exactly the sound hey wanted in the 80s but if we are talking about musicianship,, with the exception of Steve, the moment they opted to simplify things they stopped pushing themselves in that department.
I still have John Martyn's Glorious Fool which Phil produced and played drums on, the variety of styles he plays on that album is unbelievable. and I think it was 1980 0r 81
For me 81-83 was his peak. To my untrained ear the energy and creativity in his playing seemed to crescendo at the same time. He was young and experienced. He was incredible before and after that, just in different ways and with a bit less vigor.
I think that Selling England By The Pound was the height of their technical virtuosity for sure. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway has an incredible variety of styles, but for sheer blazing chops Selling England stands out to me.
