Both have a drum machine throughout, both have real drums kicking in in the middle, both have similar chords over a bass note drone, both have a sinister long buildup that creates more and more tension. But yea, all that aside, I really can't hear any similarities...
TotW 6/13/2022 - 6/19/2022: GENESIS - Mama
-
-
I still remember sitting around with friends with the vinyl single and putting it on for the first time. We all thought "What the...?" after getting into Genesis with the likes of Firth of Fifth. But as we listened to it repeatedly, we all began to appreciate it more.
I love how it builds atmosphere, with the drum machine pattern and the low pedal note. Then Tony comes in with the eerie lead line and Mike adds a few sinister guitar notes. Then Tony's pulsing chords start to fade in. All a perfect set-up for perhaps Phil's scariest vocal performance. Yes the laugh is cool. And the walloping drums in the second half complete the picture.
This would be the peak in many a band's catalogue. For Genesis, it was one of many.
I heard Mama on the radio on Sept.5th, 83, I remember it precisely because I was packing to leave for the army the day after, I had been drafted and back then it was compulsory. I rushed off to buy the album and gave it a couple of listens. Mama was mesmerizing. I returned home for the first time in December for 1 day and in all that time I had no chance to listen to it. No radio where I was posted and back then no internet or anything. I was the singer in a band at the time and I remember trying hard to hit those high notes in Mama...I couldn't, not in a satisfactory way at least. Upon my second listen, months apart I was pretty much blown away by side A which was a relief because Abacab left me wondering if they lost it. They hadn't and while I was underwhelmed by side B, still am to this day, the quality of side A alone was enough to reassure me.
-
... too simple as chords.
Being Genesis and not long after they left the Progressive roots of the past. I find Mama to be an OK track, nothing outstanding but just Good in my rating. I would still prefer their progressive music any day over the commercial poppier songs that transformed this great band.
Although there can be a tendency to lump complex chords with being more progressive overall, I think this is an oversimplification. As mentioned above, Carpet Crawlers (if we exclude the intro, which borrows its chords from TLLDOB) has only 6 straightforward major and minor chords, and is generally seen as part of Genesis's progressive era. Hold On My Heart has all kinds of complicated chords and yet is very much part of the more pop-oriented part of their career. I think there are other aspects of songs that can determine how pop or progressive a song is beyond the chords.
Mama, despite it being on an album with some catchier singles, is not particularly pop-oriented to my ears. It is not danceable. Tony's initial synth line is in the melodic minor scale, emphasizing the natural 6th and 7th, which is hardly a catchy intro overtop the drum machine pattern. The hook, if it even is that, is just that last line at the end of each verse. I find it odd (and great) that it was used as the lead single instead of catchier options on the album.
-
Although there can be a tendency to lump complex chords with being more progressive overall, I think this is an oversimplification. As mentioned above, Carpet Crawlers (if we exclude the intro, which borrows its chords from TLLDOB) has only 6 straightforward major and minor chords, and is generally seen as part of Genesis's progressive era. Hold On My Heart has all kinds of complicated chords and yet is very much part of the more pop-oriented part of their career. I think there are other aspects of songs that can determine how pop or progressive a song is beyond the chords.
Mama, despite it being on an album with some catchier singles, is not particularly pop-oriented to my ears. It is not danceable. Tony's initial synth line is in the melodic minor scale, emphasizing the natural 6th and 7th, which is hardly a catchy intro overtop the drum machine pattern. The hook, if it even is that, is just that last line at the end of each verse. I find it odd (and great) that it was used as the lead single instead of catchier options on the album.
Complex chords or chords progression mean literally nothing and don't guarantee the song is going to be great, Hold on to my Heart is a good example, if I'm not mistaken the working title was Bacharach which is telling and the chords progression was Tony's and they are interesting chords but they decided to slap some trite lyrics on it, turn on the saccharine factor on and use some really cheesy keyboards sounds, thus drowning any sense of originality in the song. I trust many here will be familiar with Rock's Beato's YouTube channel, here's a good example of a quite complex song with an outrageously sappy melody:
-
@DrJohn.
For example Follow You, That's All, Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine have more "variations" than Mama.
-
@DrJohn.
For example That's All, Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine have more "variations" than Mama.
Agreed. Many of the songs from their pop era have more chords and sometimes more complicated chords.
My point is that chord complexity does not alone establish how interesting or effective the song is. Mama has only a few chords, but that is not the main feature of the song. The song is much more about building an atmosphere and it does so very effectively.
-
the commercial poppier songs that transformed this great band.
...my addition would be, "that transformed this great band into a still-great band that now had hits and a wider audience".
As per their 5/4-man era, as a trio they still produced shorter concise pieces and longer more complex ones to create an interesting and varied mix - always one of the things I liked best about them.
Mama showed how rich and textured they could be.
-
What I'm sorry that Genesis could write pop songs like PG or Police.
But G3 like The Beatles.
-
What I'm sorry that Genesis could write pop songs like PG or Police.
But G3 like The Beatles.
I guess this depends on whether you think Mama is or is not a ''pop' song - based on the fact that it has a simple chord structure? I agree with Dr John's post above. Sometimes simplicity is better. If that's heresy for prog fans, too bad!
-
Complex chords or chords progression mean literally nothing and don't guarantee the song is going to be great, Hold on to my Heart is a good example, if I'm not mistaken the working title was Bacharach which is telling and the chords progression was Tony's and they are interesting chords but they decided to slap some trite lyrics on it, turn on the saccharine factor on and use some really cheesy keyboards sounds, thus drowning any sense of originality in the song. I trust many here will be familiar with Rock's Beato's YouTube channel, here's a good example of a quite complex song with an outrageously sappy melody:
Thanks, I love stuff like this. What pop music can do when jazz musicians get at it! I never understood the arrogance of the self-acclaimed prog experts who rub their noses at brilliant music like this.
-
Thanks, I love stuff like this. What pop music can do when jazz musicians get at it! I never understood the arrogance of the self-acclaimed prog experts who rub their noses at brilliant music like this.
Also because, what they deem ''complex'' might be considered laughable by fans or musicians from other genres, i.e. Jazz or classical music. Don't get me wrong I like it when musicians are ambitious but it should never become a pissing contest.
