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1st Official Post

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    Edited once, last by Gabble Ratchet ().

    Quote from Gabble Ratchet

    Here's the 27 min 'Duke Suite' as originally intended for release as side 1 of Duke. Instead they tore down the temple and sold off the individual bricks.

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    Always wondered why they didn't put this on the album like this. From my understanding they did perform the suite live in this order. I don't considered full songs strung together medleys at least in the Genesis definition.


    I have mixed feelings on the Genesis medleys. The ITC medley on TSL (the one with only 3 live sides) was my intro to "old" Genesis. Absolutely love that one. Such a joy discovering the album originals in my Genesis journey. The other side of that coin was the Old Medley on the Way We Walk. This one felt forced as if they knew they had to tip their hats to that era. Loved the ITC medley on Live Over Europe even though I thought the transition to Dukes Travels was a little rough.


    My question in all this is, "What would the fans rather have seen live?" Some bits and pieces of songs over 15-20 minutes or 1-2 full songs? Like instead of the 15-20 min old medley, do all of Cinema Show or Firth or whatever.

    I listened to the Duke suite yesterday evening. I don`t quite see, why it includes Turn It On Again. Leaving that out, it would have been right perfect.

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    That is not my problem. It just doesn`t flow together with the other tracks included. Just think of it fading out at the end instead of having a proper transition to Duke`s Travels and starting with Phil counting one, two, three, four, which disturbes in the middle of a suite.

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    Interesting. Listening to this, I come back to my first statement, that TIOA doesn`t really fit in. I wonder, whether the band themselves considered this selection of songs as a suite...

    First we learned to walk on water.

    Then we tried something harder.

    - Red Seven -

    Yes they did. They've said before they considered gathering the group-written songs together as a 'suite', but as they felt those were the best songs, it would yield a very unbalanced album. Plus since Suppers Ready they avoided suites, rightly in my view. And on a practical level, even for a band that did long sides, that whole sequence would be too long.


    As to what fans would prefer, medleys vs whole songs, by the time the medley became a regular feature their fan base was too diversified for that question to be meaningful. A huge number of the fans most attuned to the newer stuff probably either didn't care, or might even prefer (or at least not be bothered) no 70s stuff to be included, whether medleys or whole songs. Friends I was with at an IT tour gig certainly sighed a bit when the 70s stuff was introduced.


    I was at that London Lyceum show; I was14. I'd seen an earlier gig on that tour pre-Duke's release so got that whole lump of new stuff completely "cold" and really enjoyed it. I was especially taken with the Duchess intro.


    That sequence was only ever performed on the Duke tour.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Gabble Ratchet

    Although not a medley, here’s another ‘what could have been’ moment in the band’s history. In much the same way as they planned to do with the Duke Suite, they originally planned to release Moonlit/Cinema/Aisle as a single side-long track. Once again, fears of a ‘Supper’s Ready’ comparison stopped them and the track was split to effectively book-end the album. Here’s a fan edit of what this astonishing track might have sounded like. You’ll have to practise the suspension of disbelief with the lyrics, though they could arguably make sense viewed through your T.S.Eliot spectacles. 😀 Enjoy!

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    Fascinating! I never knew this. Thanks for the info. It's interesting to wonder what Supper's Ready would have looked like had they written the Moonlit/Cinema suite first.

    Quote from DavetotheB

    [the Old Medley on the Way We Walk] felt forced as if they knew they had to tip their hats to that era.


    My question in all this is, "What would the fans rather have seen live?" Some bits and pieces of songs over 15-20 minutes or 1-2 full songs? Like instead of the 15-20 min old medley, do all of Cinema Show or Firth or whatever.

    Well, you know that when they were looking at what old material to play on the We Can't Dance tour, Phil suggested they perform Supper's Ready but was voted down.

    Quote from StillCan'tDance

    Well, you know that when they were looking at what old material to play on the We Can't Dance tour, Phil suggested they perform Supper's Ready but was voted down.

    I didn't and that's interesting. My question would have been wether Phil's voice could have handled Supper's Ready. Correct if wrong, but didn't he have some issues with it on the IT tour and it was removed from the medley? I know Phil had issues with his vocals on the WCD tour as the encore of one of the shows I saw was cut short.

    Quote from DavetotheB

    I didn't and that's interesting. My question would have been wether Phil's voice could have handled Supper's Ready. Correct if wrong, but didn't he have some issues with it on the IT tour and it was removed from the medley? I know Phil had issues with his vocals on the WCD tour as the encore of one of the shows I saw was cut short.

    I considered that, too. Whilst the shows on the North American leg of the tour saw some fine performances of the end section of Supper's Ready, by the time the band reached Australia, there were clearly some vocal problems which resulted in the song being replaced with Afterglow.


    Phil has always said he enjoys singing Supper's Ready, though, and has no issue with fans considering it to be the best thing Genesis ever did.


    On the WCD tour, Phil caught a cold which resulted in a concert in Miami being cancelled. Subsequent to that, he lost a lot of his mid-range and Mama had to be dropped from the set. By the time the tour reached England, his vocals didn't seem as powerful as they used to be, although he still gave it his all on stage and some of the melodies on stuff like No Son Of Mine and Home By The Sea were sublime. After the stadium tour, Genesis did an "encore" tour of smaller venues throughout Britain. I caught the band at Earls Court and Phil's vocals were still in good shape.

    Quote from DavetotheB

    IMy question would have been wether Phil's voice could have handled Supper's Ready. Correct if wrong, but didn't he have some issues with it on the IT tour and it was removed from the medley? I know Phil had issues with his vocals on the WCD tour as the encore of one of the shows I saw was cut short.

    Yes, they were doing the last 2 segments and I've heard recordings in which he struggles with bits of the '666' verse, especially 'blood' and 'lyrics' where you can hear him straining, something which almost never happened.


    I too hadn't known he'd lobbied for SR on the WCD tour. I did know they'd considered opening with Behind The Lines.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from StillCan'tDance

    I considered that, too. Whilst the shows on the North American leg of the tour saw some fine performances of the end section of Supper's Ready, by the time the band reached Australia, there were clearly some vocal problems which resulted in the song being replaced with Afterglow.


    Phil has always said he enjoys singing Supper's Ready, though, and has no issue with fans considering it to be the best thing Genesis ever did.


    On the WCD tour, Phil caught a cold which resulted in a concert in Miami being cancelled. Subsequent to that, he lost a lot of his mid-range and Mama had to be dropped from the set. By the time the tour reached England, his vocals didn't seem as powerful as they used to be, although he still gave it his all on stage and some of the melodies on stuff like No Son Of Mine and Home By The Sea were sublime. After the stadium tour, Genesis did an "encore" tour of smaller venues throughout Britain. I caught the band at Earls Court and Phil's vocals were still in good shape.

    That's something I never considered: The difference in vocals necessary between a stadium and a more intimate venue. I caught two WCD shows in Philly on back to back nights. After a little research (and The Movement live database), I found that they did not perform the TIOA medley on the first night with a report from an attendee that Phil sounded "off." I remember the 2nd show being the better of the two.


    From what I remember Supper's Ready was off the table from the get go on the 2007 tour. Never heard the reason. I kind of remember reading something from management saying, "No Supper's Ready, so don't even ask."

    Quote from DavetotheB

    From what I remember Supper's Ready was off the table from the get go on the 2007 tour. Never heard the reason. I kind of remember reading something from management saying, "No Supper's Ready, so don't even ask."

    I've heard them say something along the lines of it being quite a slog to get through.

    Abandon all reason

    Quote from Gabble Ratchet

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    Here’s another great medley. ‘I know what I like’, from ‘Seconds Out’ with that great segue into Stagnation. Enjoy!

    There's also a bit from Dancing with the Moonlit Knight and Blood on the Rooftops (although I haven't quite found that one yet) in there as well.

    Was so surprised and delighted the 1st time I heard this. Also nice to know this bit stayed with IKWIL for years to come.

    Quote from DavetotheB

    That's something I never considered: The difference in vocals necessary between a stadium and a more intimate venue. I caught two WCD shows in Philly on back to back nights. After a little research (and The Movement live database), I found that they did not perform the TIOA medley on the first night with a report from an attendee that Phil sounded "off." I remember the 2nd show being the better of the two.


    From what I remember Supper's Ready was off the table from the get go on the 2007 tour. Never heard the reason. I kind of remember reading something from management saying, "No Supper's Ready, so don't even ask."

    Did they perform the TIOA medly on the WCD tour? I thought they just performed TIOA as a standalone song in 1992.


    I really don't think that by 2007 Phil could have coped with Supper's Ready (although he does sing the line "And it's hey babe" on the audio version of Not Dead Yet and it sounds lovely!).