Certainly, people who live in England and know this "market" at least a little should show determination to get these recordings. Even let them be put up for sale, e.g. on Amazon - but damn, if you could buy them. If I were a musician, I wouldn't mind if my every gig was available with rehearsals.
Version Living Forever with rehearsals in 1992
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I was like only the 3rd viewer when it came out lol
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The team and Phil are completely lacking in marketing. To be honest, I'd kick the marketing people out of this team. But this is what I'm saying - dynamic young people should join there. Maybe if there were younger "advisors", then more of these concerts would be issued. But there isn't - it isn't. At most, there will be unofficial recordings and you have to ask about them.
What is this 'team' to which you constantly refer? I really don't know what more is expected of them. They can't release every last note of footage or recordings.
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I have mixed feelings about all of this. On the one hand, sure, I've absolutely enjoyed the heck out of seeing this old footage. Living Forever is one I was especially surprised didn't make the final setlist on the Dance Tour. The whole song seemed custom made to be played live, right down to the short break between vocals before the drums came in. Being able to finally see and hear that they did intend to play it live is incredible.
The bigger chunk of 1992 rehearsal footage was also interesting to see as well. But none of this seems (to me at least) to be material worthy of an official release or paying for it.
So when it comes down to it, I'm fine with these bits being unofficial bootlegs. I fully understand why Phil, Mike, and Tony don't want to put an official stamp on this kind of stuff. The fact that it isn't immediately getting pulled off of You Tube means that there is at the very least an intentional blind eye from the band allowing it to stay up. Which seems like the best of both worlds to me.
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While I admire Pawciob1 enthusiasm I have to agree with the majority there just isn't a big enough market for this stuff to see a return on your investment. When you have people on a Genesis fan board saying they wouldn't pay for this stuff and I include myself there, that should tell you everything you need to know. I would also say it's possibly you that's been naive if you think somebody like Tony Smith doesn't have an understanding of these things.
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I wrote that it can be combined with a 4-disc box, the proposal of which is presented here. It would also be possible to combine these rehearsals with some "unknown" concert to be released. With a good promotion, a lot of people will buy unknown releases. Don't tell me that, for example, one unofficial full concert proshot on video is something good - the only one from 1980. Expectations are absolutely legitimate - and here we differ, because you think that nothing can be expected. If there were around 7 or 8 full proshot gigs like Queen, I'd shut up. But we don't have a single official full Genesis concert on the proshot video. Phil only has a 3. So please don't tell me this is normal. The rehearsals are very similar here. As for marketing - don't tell me that the lack of a band website for 6 years is normal, because it's not normal. Therefore, those who deal with marketing in this team (marketing directors, their subordinates) - should simply leave their positions. Life experience teaches me (I'm a young person) that you have to fight for everything, drill yourself, search. I do exactly the same at work and I get results. I'm surprised that people who know management well don't suggest anything, don't ask them - and maybe release this and that, hire sound and video engineers. I'll bet 100% that even such an attempt has not been made.
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those who deal with marketing in this team (marketing directors, their subordinates) - should simply leave their positions.
I didn't imagine this thread, as screechy as it is, would reach the point of calling for people to lose their jobs
Quoteyou have to fight for everything, drill yourself, search. I do exactly the same at work and I get results.
😂
Bloody hell. We're talking about a band's rehearsals. That are already available. You make it sound like someone struggling to escape from an oppressive regime!
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The rehearsals are very similar here. As for marketing - don't tell me that the lack of a band website for 6 years is normal, because it's not normal. Therefore, those who deal with marketing in this team (marketing directors, their subordinates) - should simply leave their positions. Life experience teaches me (I'm a young person) that you have to fight for everything, drill yourself, search. I do exactly the same at work and I get results. I'm surprised that people who know management well don't suggest anything, don't ask them - and maybe release this and that, hire sound and video engineers. I'll bet 100% that even such an attempt has not been made.
Lack of a band website for 6 years.....for a band that last recorded any new material more than 25 years ago. For a band that has flat out said they're done. Seems reasonable to me.
In various posts, you've talked about hiring 10-15 sound engineers to release more concerts. Do you know how expensive that would be? Do you really think they'd make a profit?
This band has released 6 live albums. They've released another 4-5 discs worth of live material on box sets. They're releasing a new 5 disc set, of which 4 discs are live. I think they've released more live material than most bands. Sure, there's stuff I'd like that they've never officially released......but that stuff is pretty readily available as bootlegs.
As far as the rehearsals.....I'm a guy that owns about 200 CDs worth of Genesis + solo material....and I would have zero interest in buying rehearsals. I'm guessing I'm not the only one.
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I've got nothing else to do.
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Woooaaahh. This thread has kind of gone off the rails!!
pawciob1 I think there's a market for more Genesis stuff. I do think they've underplayed their hand to some extent, seeing as people are seemingly willing to part with hard-earned dough for acoustic demo version 5 of an unreleased b-side. But it's a small market. And Genesis don't release that kind of thing anyway. please apply your admirable imagination to this scenario: a hyper, young marketing novice hounding Tony Banks to release a box set including rehearsals which would have to be engineered and polished. Tony Banks, stone faced at the best of times, would be even stonier faced and say "no" and hang up and shake his head. Possibly not in that order.
Who knows. 50th anniversary of the lamb is around the corner, and sometimes old bands get reappraised and 'have a moment', with a catalogue deemed worthy of reissues. I certainly wouldn't hold my breath though. I think the 10 minute early version of Mama that was on one of the archives is as deep as they're willing to go.
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I love this 10 minute version of Mama. The fact that it happened - I consider it a miracle. :))))) We'll see how it goes - I would combine these rehearsals with a thematic box for a given album. People - it will be, no it won't. At most there will be unofficial recordings and someday something unknown will come out anyway. Of that I am convinced. Not today, not tomorrow, in 5 years. By the way - the website of eg "retired" band The Police still exists. Dire Straits has also been dead for 30 years. The website is. Therefore, please - those who say that the website is not needed, are making fun of themselves and embarrassing themselves. These websites are meant to be for the fans. For new fans to get to know the band they like well. Oddly enough, I have to commend The Genesis Archive here - at least it has the semblance of a good website. But that's what the team's marketing people should be responsible for.
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A few comments:
It's true that many retired bands have maintained websites and regular releases. However I think it is understandable that a band that has toured twice in the past 20 years and released their last studio album 25 years ago might not bother maintaining an active website and might not continue to focus on releases. Similarly they may not choose to maintain staffing for marketing and other areas that are much more necessary for an active and productive band.
I am guessing that the market for more obscure Genesis recordings is considered very small by the band, so they view the effort and expense to go into getting such recordings ship-shape for release is not worth the effort. I'm a big Genesis fan and I have only so much appetite for these things. I enjoyed watching Come Rain or Shine once - I've never watched it again. I thought the Mama work-in-progress thing was really interesting once. Watching the Mama tour rehearsal footage (at a distance from a single camera) was interesting once. So if I have that much interest, I am guessing the market probably is pretty small.
Most importantly, as has been mentioned many times above, the band themselves is not keen on releasing everything in existence. If they don't like something, they leave it on the shelf. They also do not see much point in having multiple versions of the same song released. If there is one good live version out there, they do not see much point in releasing another. So if this is their stance, then it is hard to expect much from them.
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I love this 10 minute version of Mama. The fact that it happened - I consider it a miracle. :))))) We'll see how it goes - I would combine these rehearsals with a thematic box for a given album. People - it will be, no it won't. At most there will be unofficial recordings and someday something unknown will come out anyway. Of that I am convinced. Not today, not tomorrow, in 5 years. By the way - the website of eg "retired" band The Police still exists. Dire Straits has also been dead for 30 years. The website is. Therefore, please - those who say that the website is not needed, are making fun of themselves and embarrassing themselves. These websites are meant to be for the fans. For new fans to get to know the band they like well. Oddly enough, I have to commend The Genesis Archive here - at least it has the semblance of a good website. But that's what the team's marketing people should be responsible for.
The Dire Straits website consists of a timelline, a discography, a mailing list and a shop. I have bought a couple of T shirts from the shop but I didn't buy the re-released studio albums, because I didn't need them. You have to bear in mind that the DS catalogue is much smaller than that of Genesis. Quite frankly, if I were telling people who didn't know DS how to find out about the band, the last place I would even think about is the website.
Once again I take issue with this 'the team's marketing people' which is something you seem to have created out of nowhere.
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Once again I take issue with this 'the team's marketing people' which is something you seem to have created out of nowhere.
Not only that but having conjured them up he then immediately demanded they all be sacked! 🤨😆
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Not only that but having conjured them up he then immediately demanded they all be sacked! 🤨😆
That gave me a proper laugh! The poor marketing people...
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That gave me a proper laugh! The poor marketing people...
Simultaneous hiring and firing.
"Great to have you here, welcome on board. This'll be your desk here. Hey most importantly, kitchen's there, toilets just down the corridor there on the left. OK, now we've covered that, meet Stewart here, he's with our security team. He'll show you straight out. I'm sorry, this is never easy and there's no nice way to do this so just grab your things, hand your pass in at the desk and leave. Now."
Maybe the gap between hiring and firing is so infinitesimal they co-exist in both states. Oh my god they're Schrödinger's marketing team!
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Simultaneous hiring and firing.
"Great to have you here, welcome on board. This'll be your desk here. Hey most importantly, kitchen's there, toilets just down the corridor there on the left. OK, now we've covered that, meet Stewart here, he's with our security team. He'll show you straight out. I'm sorry, this is never easy and there's no nice way to do this so just grab your things, hand your pass in at the desk and leave. Now."
Maybe the gap between hiring and firing is so infinitesimal they co-exist in both states. Oh my god they're Schrödinger's marketing team!
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Brilliant!
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A few comments:
It's true that many retired bands have maintained websites and regular releases. However I think it is understandable that a band that has toured twice in the past 20 years and released their last studio album 25 years ago might not bother maintaining an active website and might not continue to focus on releases. Similarly they may not choose to maintain staffing for marketing and other areas that are much more necessary for an active and productive band.
I am guessing that the market for more obscure Genesis recordings is considered very small by the band, so they view the effort and expense to go into getting such recordings ship-shape for release is not worth the effort. I'm a big Genesis fan and I have only so much appetite for these things. I enjoyed watching Come Rain or Shine once - I've never watched it again. I thought the Mama work-in-progress thing was really interesting once. Watching the Mama tour rehearsal footage (at a distance from a single camera) was interesting once. So if I have that much interest, I am guessing the market probably is pretty small.
Most importantly, as has been mentioned many times above, the band themselves is not keen on releasing everything in existence. If they don't like something, they leave it on the shelf. They also do not see much point in having multiple versions of the same song released. If there is one good live version out there, they do not see much point in releasing another. So if this is their stance, then it is hard to expect much from them.
Agreed. They're rehearsals. Why would anyone want multiple copies of REHEARSALS?
Are we going to remaster the bits with bum notes, where Tony says "OOPS!! Start again, I'll nail that this time!"
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Are we going to remaster the bits with bum notes, where Tony says "OOPS!! Start again, I'll nail that this time!"
You had to mention that... 🤦♂️
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Not only that but having conjured them up he then immediately demanded they all be sacked! 🤨😆
Must belong to the Tory Cabinet