TotW 12/05/2022 - 12/11/2022: GENESIS - Dancing With The Moonlit Knight

  • Hahaha! I've always been struck by 'unifaun' but never in that way. If anything it amuses me in the same way as Steve Miller's "pompatus".

    Yeah I'm nitpicking a tiny bit of a great song. "Undinal" in FoF strikes me the same way.


    14 from me. Lyrically, it's all over the place, some good bits, some bad, but musically, it's Genesis at their best, Mount Everest looking down on the valley that is the likes of "That's All" (Or "That'll Do" as I call it) 10 years later.

    When I was getting into Genesis as a teen I was obsessed with Mama and HBTS, and found That's All totally skippable because I found it too straight, or uninteresting. My cousin at the time kept putting it on (partly to wind me up, but also because he liked it). I've come around and although it'll never be my favorite track, I think it's an almost perfectly constructed pop song that's executed brilliantly. Phil's vocals are on top form, as they almost always were around that time. The song has shades of dark and light, and a catchy hook. I think it's very hard to pull something like that off and speaks to the talent of the band. That they could do Dancing with the Moonlit Night and That's All is pretty much unparalleled I believe.

  • Yeah I'm nitpicking a tiny bit of a great song. "Undinal" in FoF strikes me the same way.


    When I was getting into Genesis as a teen I was obsessed with Mama and HBTS, and found That's All totally skippable because I found it too straight, or uninteresting. My cousin at the time kept putting it on (partly to wind me up, but also because he liked it). I've come around and although it'll never be my favorite track, I think it's an almost perfectly constructed pop song that's executed brilliantly. Phil's vocals are on top form, as they almost always were around that time. The song has shades of dark and light, and a catchy hook. I think it's very hard to pull something like that off and speaks to the talent of the band. That they could do Dancing with the Moonlit Night and That's All is pretty much unparalleled I believe.

    At the risk of derailing this thread, it's interesting how people can see the same song so differently. To me, the music on That'll Do is dull, plodding and lacking in any focal point (such as Illegal Alien has a few of, pity about that track, apart from Mama and It's Gonna Get Better, musically, it's the best track on the album, but the lyrics......) and the lyrics are less controversial, but less interesting too. "Just as I thought it was goin' alright, I found out I'm wrong, when I thought I was right" - It's hardly Undinal Unifauns, is it? :D

    Ian


    Putting the old-fashioned Staffordshire plate in the dishwasher!

  • When I was getting into Genesis as a teen I was obsessed with Mama and HBTS, and found That's All totally skippable because I found it too straight, or uninteresting. My cousin at the time kept putting it on (partly to wind me up, but also because he liked it). I've come around and although it'll never be my favorite track, I think it's an almost perfectly constructed pop song that's executed brilliantly. Phil's vocals are on top form, as they almost always were around that time. The song has shades of dark and light, and a catchy hook. I think it's very hard to pull something like that off and speaks to the talent of the band. That they could do Dancing with the Moonlit Night and That's All is pretty much unparalleled I believe.

    I had a similar trajectory as you with That's All. At first, at best I was neutral/uninterested. But I gradually saw it in the same way as you, as a catchy bit of well-made pop music. I like Rutherford's comment in relation to how they supposedly "sold out" or lost their integrity etc, when he said it's much more exacting writing a catchy 4-minute pop song compared to a multi-sectioned 10-minute prog epic.


    I'm not fussed about lyrics personally, I'd never place any expectation on pop or rock songs to be any deeper or better crafted. If they are, fine and it's a bonus. I don't think the lyric of TA is bad. I don't find many Genesis lyrics that great really but for the most part they get the job done and either provide some flavour or colour or tell a story well enough.


    I also agree that they're remarkable in having such different tracks as the two discussed here. One of the UK newspaper reviews of the last tour made this point and suggested it's something they don't get proper credit for, citing the inclusion of Invisible Touch, Throwing It All Away et al alongside FoF and Cinema Show.


    I loved that they revived the DWTMK/Carpet Crawlers pairing as the show closer. For me they're two huge songs,certainly of the PG era but generally too.

    Abandon all reason

  • I like Rutherford's comment in relation to how they supposedly "sold out" or lost their integrity etc, when he said it's much more exacting writing a catchy 4-minute pop song compared to a multi-sectioned 10-minute prog epic.

    Lots of artists have left similar statements addressing the common "you sold out" comments. Let me add my take on this: it's easier to write a noodly pretentious overly-extended nowhere-going prog longtrack than a good pop song such as That's All, and it's easier to write a bland samey formulaic throwaway charts hit pop song than a prog masterpiece such as Moonlit Knight.

  • Lots of artists have left similar statements addressing the common "you sold out" comments. Let me add my take on this: it's easier to write a noodly pretentious overly-extended nowhere-going prog longtrack than a good pop song such as That's All, and it's easier to write a bland samey formulaic throwaway charts hit pop song than a prog masterpiece such as Moonlit Knight.

    Totally agree with the above pair of comments. Genesis were great at both types of songs. They have made the point that they always tried both too - Silent Sun, IKWIL, ToTT, YOSW etc. They just got much better at the pop song craft as they went on, and still made proggy tracks like HBTS and Domino as they perfected the hits. That the sound changed I think was a reflection of the times, and technology in the industry and they got enormous flack for keeping up. What an unusual, great band. It's no wonder we bloody love them!!

  • Lots of artists have left similar statements addressing the common "you sold out" comments. Let me add my take on this: it's easier to write a noodly pretentious overly-extended nowhere-going prog longtrack than a good pop song such as That's All, and it's easier to write a bland samey formulaic throwaway charts hit pop song than a prog masterpiece such as Moonlit Knight.

    Agreed.


    Who are some of the other artists who've made that same comment?

    Abandon all reason

  • I've been reading or hearing this quite a number of times in various interviews, I can't recall every single one. I have a clear memory though of an old interview with Metallica in the 90's in which one of them said something liek "it's harder to write a 3-minute pop song than a lengthy epic". It's something that comes up often times, apparently addressing a (perceived?) perception of non-musicians who think it must be harder to write long songs.

  • I've been reading or hearing this quite a number of times in various interviews, I can't recall every single one. I have a clear memory though of an old interview with Metallica in the 90's in which one of them said something liek "it's harder to write a 3-minute pop song than a lengthy epic". It's something that comes up often times, apparently addressing a (perceived?) perception of non-musicians who think it must be harder to write long songs.

    I recall Carlos Santana saying the same thing following the release of Zebop (1981) which marked a bit of a departure for them: shorter songs, more pop oriented than most of the albums they had released up to that point. Zebop included the track "Winning" which was probably their biggest hit since "Black Magic Woman."


    While some may interpret "pop oriented" as a disparagement, as a long-time Santana fan I actually thought Zebop was a great album, and still do.