The Cowdray Ruins Show

    • Official Post

    Indeed there was

    We had an article in our old magazine back then, which was eventually translated and put online on this website as well

    https://www.genesis-news.com/c…Show-Gig-report-s189.html


    There are a couple of articles on the internet as well

    https://www.rollingstone.com/m…unite-for-charity-205223/


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  • Christian

    Changed the title of the thread from “The Ruins” to “The Cowdray Ruins Show”.
  • Sounds like a very unique event.


    I noticed Tonight, Tonight, Tonight and IT aren't listed next to each other in your article but I assume it was the standard medley, and not a full TTT?


    And do we know what the 3 Floyd pieces were? I imagine it stuck in Roger Waters' craw to have a member of Genesis playing his stage role in Floyd. Hahaha.

    • Official Post

    Interesting! I've never heard of this show before. Would this be the last Genesis gig with Phil Collins until the MMF awards in 2000?

    Yes it is.


    This is the tracklist from a bootleg


    1.1 A Kind Of Magic (Queen)

    1.2 I Want To Break Free (Queen)

    1.3 We Will Rock You (Queen)

    1.4 Another One Bites The Duest (Queen - Vocals Paul Young)

    1.5 These Are The Days Of Our Lives (Queen)

    1.6 Radio Ga Ga (Queen)

    1.7 Turn It On Again (Genesis - Drums Roger Taylor)

    1.8 Hold On My Heart (Genesis - Drums Roger Taylor)

    1.9 I Can't Dance (Genesis - Drums Roger Taylor)

    1.10 Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (Genesis - Drums Roger Taylor, short version)

    1.11 Invisible Touch (Genesis - Drums Roger Taylor)

    2.1 Run Like Hell (Pink Floyd - Vocals Paul Young)

    2.2 Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd)

    2.3 Comfortably Numb (Pink Floyd)

    2.4 Stone Free (Eric Clapton)

    2.5 Old Love (Eric Clapton)

    2.6 Ain't That Peculiar (All Star Cowdray Ruins Band)

    2.7 Gimme Some Lovin' (All Star Cowdray Ruins Band)

    2.8 Can I Get A Witness (All Star Cowdray Ruins Band)

  • Dearie me. That must have felt sharper and funnier in your head than it looks on screen. (Oh, and it's Cowdray)

    Haha, it did feel funnier in my head. That show just marks such a disappointment as we all know Phil lost his desire to be in Genesis at that time. In hindsight it really marks the beginning of the end of Genesis as a truly active band. Mike and Tony really had an uphill battle thinking that they could replace him. I supported them and admire their commitment and and courage but the magic really was the three of them. Would it really been the same band if either Tony or Mike left? I think about that sometimes as it is never really discussed.

  • That show just marks such a disappointment as we all know Phil lost his desire to be in Genesis at that time. In hindsight it really marks the beginning of the end of Genesis as a truly active band. Mike and Tony really had an uphill battle thinking that they could replace him. I supported them and admire their commitment and and courage but the magic really was the three of them. Would it really been the same band if either Tony or Mike left? I think about that sometimes as it is never really discussed.

    The other two always said they were surprised PC stayed as long as he did.


    Tony Smith said Banks was the core of the band and didn't think it could be called Genesis if he wasn't there, which I think is right. Yes there clearly was a specific chemistry of the trio, evidenced right back to the 5-piece when the trio came up with some key moments such as Cinema Show and Apocalypse. I especially love the central instrumental part of Can Utility as it's got 'trio' all over it with that guitar riff which I imagine MR starting off with, PC finding the drum part then TB doing his mellotron chords over it. It was a unique combo that gelled in a very particular way, still doing so nearly 20 years later, just differently.


    That the trio's singer was a key musician as well was significant. Unless they happened to find an equally adept singing drummer it was never going to work in the same way. Wilson did his best but had to deal with entering into a 30-year partnership and also not having instrumental and writing input. I believe they could have given it at least one more album and built on the leaner feel and darker edge hinted at in CAS, and allowed RW and a drummer to settle in more. But I understand their decision to end it.

    Abandon all reason

    • Official Post

    Haha, it did feel funnier in my head. That show just marks such a disappointment as we all know Phil lost his desire to be in Genesis at that time. In hindsight it really marks the beginning of the end of Genesis as a truly active band. Mike and Tony really had an uphill battle thinking that they could replace him. I supported them and admire their commitment and and courage but the magic really was the three of them. Would it really been the same band if either Tony or Mike left? I think about that sometimes as it is never really discussed.

    At the time Phil said on more than one occasion that Genesis is Tony and Mike much more than him.


    Now that history is written it's always easy to come up with ideas and assumptions, but I believe they never really thought this through when Phil left and didn't give it enough time to evolve.

    they should have done some shows first, maybe in an unusual setting (semi-unplugged?), then record the album with Ray and maybe a second one.

    It was clear from the beginning that CAS wouldn't be as successful as WCD, but they stopped at least one album too early, in my opionion.


    The Ruins show was a special thing, since Queen, Genesis and Floyd did this together. Sadly, it was probably the final moment that caused Phil's decision to leave the band.

  • It was clear from the beginning that CAS wouldn't be as successful as WCD, but they stopped at least one album too early, in my opionion.

    Couldn't agree more. As Ray said in an interview, during the tour they had become a band, and of course he was brought in late to CAS and only contributed to writing a little. It's such a shame they didn't do a full album with the three of them.


    Are there any video bits of this Ruins show?

  • They were a bit clumsy, from a sheer marketing/promotional point of view. They waited too long instead of capitalizing on the buzz generated by Phil's departure, by the time CAS was released only a few cared about it. They should have given up any pretence of commercial success and with that in mind perhaps they could have been a bit more daring with the material. Nick D'Virgilio said in an interview that when he got on board, he was hoping they were going back to their roots a bit more. The tour should have been structured differently, ergo downsized and in hindsight, I don't think that Ray was the right choice, I like his voice and he did a fine job but he doesn't seem to have anything to do with Genesis music, some people were looking forward to him writing more on a possible next album. Personally, I dreaded the thought and I'm even more convinced after having listened to his solo material. I read that Big Big Train, David Langdon, auditioned, he would have been my choice. Great vocalist, somewhere in-between Peter and Phil and clearly, stylistically closer to Tony and Mike than Ray.

  • I know that Phil has said that Genesis was more Tony and Mike than him but I think that has to do with the fact that Phil’s musical tastes are the furthest from Genesis music. His passion for the band may have lessened over the years after his own music was becoming more successful even though he loved the guys and continued to work with them. It was a crazy workload for him too. I do think that he was as important to the sound and music as Tony and Mike with his drumming, singing, writing, arranging, etc. I really feel that taking it down to two members from an original five really diluted the band. Phil said this in so many words in some interview, like he knew that taking it down to two may have been one too many. He was supportive publicly and was concerned about the roadies, etc but I have gotten the sense that he didn’t think it was the best idea for them to continue. Mike and Tony were very quick to continue without him which was pretty interesting. I think they obviously wanted to work together but I also think they had a little bit of a feeling that the public undermined their contribution due to Phil’s solo success and wanted to change that narrative a bit.

    After Phil left and they selected Ray as the singer, they did wait an awful long time to release an album. The album sounds like a Mike and Tony album with session players on it. To me, it doesn’t sound like a band. When they were three piece Phil and Mike each had two roles which was obviously different than when they played live with Daryl and Chester but it still sounded like a band. Maybe they should have gone out and played live with Ray and whoever they chose to play guitar and drums before they released the album just to get some chemistry. I don’t know what the right way forward would’ve been to be honest. It just seemed like by 1998, 1999 and 2000 after they disbanded the Ray lineup that Phil was back in the picture like the whole thing was a mistake.

  • It just seemed like by 1998, 1999 and 2000 after they disbanded the Ray lineup that Phil was back in the picture like the whole thing was a mistake.

    I think the mistake was in treating it like a mistake. They just didn't give themselves a chance to cohere and move forward. I respect their decision to stop of course. Of all bands they had already evolved further than most from their origins, and in the musical landscape that was in 1997 (Spice Girls, boybands etc) it was a hostile environment even if Phil hadn't left. It was just too big a hurdle to continue with, arguably their biggest change since 1975 after a career of changing.


    I personally think they had miles more to go, and the band had lots of promise with a fresh voice and new ideas. It wasn't to be, but I don't buy any of this crap that it would have been in some way intolerable for long term fans. It's easy not to listen to something if you don't want to (not aiming this specifically at you but others being over dramatic about how utterly awful it would been if they had chosen to make another album).


    So... No videos of this odd Cowdray Ruins gig?

  • I'm one of the awful ones! Point is Genesis lost Anthony, then Peter, and then Steve, and quickly and easily moved forward. I think Phil's contribution was always under appreciated and when he left it was over. Calling All Stations was 'mush' (I played it yesterday) and nobody wanted to see them perform it. Ray was probably the best of a bad bunch of singers they auditioned, but audiences wanted to see Phil. It was always Phil who dictated the schedule and touring dates after his success as a solo artist. Bands do lose members and survive but some are much more important than others, if the two piece had been Tony and Phil it would have had a different ending.

  • On Youtube:


    Audio of Full Genesis Performance

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    Video of Genesis Performance minus TTT/IT

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    Genesis on stage at 10:25