Are political threads allowed?

Quote from rkive

From an Italian newspaper on the morning of the UK elections:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w…to_favoriti-14446448/amp/

"Polling stations open from this morning at 7am in the United Kingdom for the renewal of the 632 seats in Westminster. The game seems to be over, the polls have never fluctuated so much as to cast doubt on Labour's victory. The latest projections speak of a range of seats between 432 and 465, over 200 more than the Conservatives".

So we knew who won.

Are you actually being serious with this stuff?

Quote from Backdrifter

Just about woken back up after my election all-nighter.

It's a huge relief to finally see an end to this succession of appalling tory governments. It's a stain on the UK's political culture and an embarrassment that lowlifes like Johnson, Dorries and Braverman, among others, could attain high office. Although Braverman and several other of the worst specimens unfortunately held their seats.

But it was a joy to see that fossilised stick of edwardian halitosis Rees Mogg shovelled up and dumped, along with Andrea "The Finger" Jenkyns, primitive thug Jonathan Gullis and many others - including all of Grant Shapps's various multiple identities - and of course, as mentioned, Liz "Beaten By A Lettuce" Truss.

What an ungracious horrible twerp 'Pork Markets' Truss is, refusing to make the usual concession speech and petulantly stomping off, thus shunning the tradition of thanking her campaigners, supporters and constituents. But there's the measure of her. She can now go back to the US to continue promoting her doolally book and batshit theories about how she was brought down by "the deep state" and that well-known cabal of far left activists, the, er... ahem... banking industry.

All that said, I can't get over-excited about the Starmer Labour government. We can only hope there'll be positive changes. Re the SNP, like many I've become disenchanted with them but part of me was still sorry to see them fall. They now have to face whatever awaits them in the 2026 SP election. As with the tories, extended time in power brings issues that can torpedo a party. They have done good things and as a resident in Scotland I can attest that life has largely felt better compared to my time in England, and I hope that if they equally fail in 26 that the presumed subsequent Scottish Labour government doesn't start to undo the positives.

My two highlights of a great day down here! I'm surprised Truss didn't do a Trump and claim she actually won.

Of some concern surely is the fact that Labour's vote only went up by 2%.I also found it interesting that the largest party in Northern Ireland in terms of seats is now Sinn Fein.

I am trying not to think about the American election at the moment.

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Quote

I'm surprised Truss didn't do a Trump and claim she actually won.

I wouldn't have been surprised.

Oh well she'll have plenty of time to visit her pal Bannon in prison now.

Re the notion of claiming to have actually won, on twitter I've seen reform voters outraged that they didn't get 50 or 100 seats or indeed win outright, and that this is proof of - guess what? - a deep-state conspiracy. I then immediately wonder if they're satirical accounts, or are themselves part of some conspiracy to spread discontent in the hope of starting a sad little British version of January 6th.

It is a pity that the Lib-Dems, led by Ed Davey (one of the culprits behind the Post Office scandal), got their seat tally swollen 6.5 times despite a fall in votes and only a 0.7% increase in percentage.

Quote from Backdrifter

Just about woken back up after my election all-nighter.

It's a huge relief to finally see an end to this succession of appalling tory governments. It's a stain on the UK's political culture and an embarrassment that lowlifes like Johnson, Dorries and Braverman, among others, could attain high office. Although Braverman and several other of the worst specimens unfortunately held their seats.

But it was a joy to see that fossilised stick of edwardian halitosis Rees Mogg shovelled up and dumped, along with Andrea "The Finger" Jenkyns, primitive thug Jonathan Gullis and many others - including all of Grant Shapps's various multiple identities - and of course, as mentioned, Liz "Beaten By A Lettuce" Truss.

What an ungracious horrible twerp 'Pork Markets' Truss is, refusing to make the usual concession speech and petulantly stomping off, thus shunning the tradition of thanking her campaigners, supporters and constituents. But there's the measure of her. She can now go back to the US to continue promoting her doolally book and batshit theories about how she was brought down by "the deep state" and that well-known cabal of far left activists, the, er... ahem... banking industry.

All that said, I can't get over-excited about the Starmer Labour government. We can only hope there'll be positive changes. Re the SNP, like many I've become disenchanted with them but part of me was still sorry to see them fall. They now have to face whatever awaits them in the 2026 SP election. As with the tories, extended time in power brings issues that can torpedo a party. They have done good things and as a resident in Scotland I can attest that life has largely felt better compared to my time in England, and I hope that if they equally fail in 26 that the presumed subsequent Scottish Labour government doesn't start to undo the positives.

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So I'm a couple of weeks behind this chat but I couldn't agree with you more. You said it all for me. For only the second time in my life I didn't vote Labour. 2005 I couldn't bring myself to vote for them mainly because of Iraq and partly because Blair just seemed so Tory although some good was done. Now Starmer has gone back on the pledges he made that I supported him on.

I just couldn't vote for them and my MP, Taiwo Owatemi seems like a lapdog career politician who was quite happy to work for the Tories in her early "career". She seems like the sort who sees being in politics as a career rather than a cause. I voted and campaigned for her in the previous two elections as she turned a rock solid Labour down to a majority of a few hundred votes however JC was in charge at the time or at least trying to be , failing to control the chaos around him! ( I knew it hopeless cause but I couldn't just sit back and do nothing other than moan) . If I'd thought that there would be any doubt on her winning I guess I would have voted tactically to get the Tories out . As it was I voted Green. I really think it's time we had PR where could vote for who we wanted knowing the vote would count. Occasionally have my doubts about democracy though. Maybe we could get a PR elected upper house one day. I'm hoping some good

will be done

I’m a member of the Labour Party and generally left of centre. It seems to me that, unfortunately, the critical mass of the UK vote sits slightly right of the centre (I know these are clumsy labels). So the Labour Party has to move to that ground to have any hope of overcoming a bias against them and the atrocious scaremongering of a still powerful media. There is simply no point trumpeting from opposition benches year after year. Keir had to take that ground more than ever - the party he inherited was unelectable on these terms and most commentators thought it would take two terms to get them back on track and somehow he has done that in one. He did that by sheer hard, professional work and beating the right wing media by not having much to say about anything and letting the Tories beat themselves.

Obviously we won by so much because of the system we have and because the Tories were hideously bad for so long and Reform them split their vote. But win he did and I’m encouraged by the start they have made. It’s so refreshing not to watch the news and listen to the embarrassing lies and sheer stupid incompetence we’ve had for the last 14 years as our leaders battled each other and played out their fantasies at the expense of good governance and the livelihoods of ordinary, hardworking people. Whatever else, if this Government can begin to rebuild trust, demonstrate integrity and competence and rekindle some spirit of public service and unity, we must surely all be better off.

The Tories will eventually have to move to the same sort of ground and any detours to the right or what they imagine to be ‘Reform’ territory will just mean more years in opposition. They are usually quite hilarious in arranging leadership elections and almost always seem to end up with someone they didn’t expect or want, so still lots to entertain.

But at least for now, in a very uncertain world, I feel we might have tickets on a slow, slightly dull but mainly on-time railway rather than careering and lurching around on a runaway train.

Quote from Thelawnmower

I’m a member of the Labour Party and generally left of centre. It seems to me that, unfortunately, the critical mass of the UK vote sits slightly right of the centre (I know these are clumsy labels). So the Labour Party has to move to that ground to have any hope of overcoming a bias against them and the atrocious scaremongering of a still powerful media. There is simply no point trumpeting from opposition benches year after year. Keir had to take that ground more than ever - the party he inherited was unelectable on these terms and most commentators thought it would take two terms to get them back on track and somehow he has done that in one. He did that by sheer hard, professional work and beating the right wing media by not having much to say about anything and letting the Tories beat themselves.

Obviously we won by so much because of the system we have and because the Tories were hideously bad for so long and Reform them split their vote. But win he did and I’m encouraged by the start they have made. It’s so refreshing not to watch the news and listen to the embarrassing lies and sheer stupid incompetence we’ve had for the last 14 years as our leaders battled each other and played out their fantasies at the expense of good governance and the livelihoods of ordinary, hardworking people. Whatever else, if this Government can begin to rebuild trust, demonstrate integrity and competence and rekindle some spirit of public service and unity, we must surely all be better off.

The Tories will eventually have to move to the same sort of ground and any detours to the right or what they imagine to be ‘Reform’ territory will just mean more years in opposition. They are usually quite hilarious in arranging leadership elections and almost always seem to end up with someone they didn’t expect or want, so still lots to entertain.

But at least for now, in a very uncertain world, I feel we might have tickets on a slow, slightly dull but mainly on-time railway rather than careering and lurching around on a runaway train.

Yes I agree with you too. I always thought that it was pointless having JC as a leader even though I agreed with most of his policies , especially 2017, however I always knew he would lose and his leadership would mean nothing other than having to put up with Tories. I think he lost the plot by 2019.. He was a terrible leader. That was one of reasons I helped campaign, didn't want to sit back and moan about how how bad he was. Yes , you have to compromise to get in and have any effect but Starmer now seems to me be just right of centre and I couldn't bring myself to vote for them. If I had any respect for my MP I might have and would probably voted have for them tactically if I thought it would help get the Tories out but I was pretty sure the seat was safe. I ended up voting with my heart.

Quote from Mr.Farmer

Yes I agree with you too. I always thought that it was pointless having JC as a leader even though I agreed with most of his policies , especially 2017, however I always knew he would lose and his leadership would mean nothing other than having to put up with Tories. I think he lost the plot by 2019.. He was a terrible leader. That was one of reasons I helped campaign, didn't want to sit back and moan about how how bad he was. Yes , you have to compromise to get in and have any effect but Starmer now seems to me be just right of centre and I couldn't bring myself to vote for them. If I had any respect for my MP I might have and would probably voted have for them tactically if I thought it would help get the Tories out but I was pretty sure the seat was safe. I ended up voting with my heart.

Well the most important thing is to be part of the process.

I’m hoping that now he’s in we’ll see more of the real Keir, which I think will be sensible and hopefully more progressive as growth comes along. But I can’t stomach a Labour Govt keeping the two child benefit rule-

That is beyond the pale.

I hope you are both right, and that the reform elements will remain on the margins, but this strain of extremism seems virulent unfortunately, capturing more and more people as time goes on until it is mainstream. The teenage boys it appeals to now are tomorrow's voters. France rejected it, thankfully. But it's a much bigger force than it should be across Europe. The US is on the verge of capitulating completely which can't be ignored because of their size and power. It's sucks. The whole thing sucks. What I hope is that the Democrats in the US somehow salvage the situation, and that the fire across the world peters out before too much lasting damage is done. It's a far-flung hope though, as the Project 2025 architects have their tentacles deep and wide across the judiciary, and won't mind if it becomes Project 2029 or 2033 etc. it seems to me to be a nasty moment in history and I hope the better side prevails, so to speak, but I am not confident.

Quote from Thelawnmower

But I can’t stomach a Labour Govt keeping the two child benefit rule-

That is beyond the pale.

How so? There are 8 billion people in the world, we need to be discouraging large families, don't forget, every one doesn't just add to the carbon footprint by what they do, just breathing is adding to it. Plus, no one is forcing people to have large families. And where do the benefits come from? Me. You. etc.

My mum had to bring me (an only child!) up in the era of NO benefits for the first child. If she'd have had another, she would have qualified. Now THAT's beyond the pale.

Because a Labour Govt is about moving existing children out of poverty.

But I take your wider points about family sizes and that’s a discussion that needs to be had at a global level as well as national.

If there were discussions about that and a culture of thinking about it in the UK then the benefit checks and balances could be part of a thought-through strategy that folk can plan for. At the moment I think it is a money saving device (nowt wrong with that as part of a wider plan) that is trapping children, already born, into poverty, with all the costs to society that brings as well as the ethical dimension. I just think they could do with scrapping it and then building a rounded system that we can all follow. But you are correct that population growth is an issue we tend to have our head in the sands about and it also needs to be discussed in relation to the demographics of the UK, a properly planned immigration policy that caters for our work needs etc etc. Big stuff!

So, what do we think then?

I think the writing was on the wall for a while now, for Biden. Assuming Kamala is the pick, it would be great if she could pick Pete B for VP and create a line of succession that could steer the country over the course of multiple election cycles and gradually expunge the filth of the MAGA movement. I can't see that happening though. I think she'll pick a more conservative VP. I hope they win. I'm not confident of that. I hope they don't start infighting. Obama and Whitmer need to pile in behind Harris ASAP. I think any other choice is fanciful so the die is cast. Need to roll with it.

A few of my thoughts anyway!

Well in 2019 he did describe himself as a 'transitional' candidate so in that sense he's making good on that, but only after being pressured to do so. It's rattled the magas who aren't happy about it as everything they've planned for their campaign rests on battling Biden. Trump is now the oldest ever candidate, and the irony is that he himself is of course pretty senile when that was the basis of their attacks on Biden. Will his nicked ear be enough to still propel him to victory?

Harris hasn't enjoyed great ratings but is now operating in a different context which could be helpful. As I understand it Millennials and Gen Zs are the biggest US labour demographic and Harris is seen as very much on their side. At 59 she's not in that age group but has the potential to appeal as a younger more dynamic figure compared to saggy baggy ranting stupid-haired Trump. I'm not condoning judging by appearances, simply acknowledging the part it plays in elections, whether or not it should.

Yes her running-mate choice will be key, Buttigieg is surely going to be a contender and I've heard Beshear mentioned but know little about him. Her plus either as a ticket could be enough to fire up a "youth" vote. But obviously there's a month until DNC. Support for KH seems to be building but anything can happen in the next few weeks, at the extreme the DNC could be chaotic unless they see their best bet is to make it clean and simple by getting behind her.

It seems to me there should be a cut-off point for age to do 1st run for President, not just in the US, but definitely for there, on the basis that the system there allow 2 runs of 4 years and that's it, so logically, taking 67 at the cut-off point, it allows someone to be president until age 75. Given the responsibility of the job, that seems a sensible maximum. It's clear that Biden, nor Trump, are fit to be in the role at their ages.

And I'm not being ageist! Lord knows, I'll only be eligible for another 1.33 years myself!

Fwiw, yes re the gen Z/Gen alpha vote. Charli XCX tweeted out "Kamala is brat" which is very meaningful, apparently. All they need now is the stamp of approval from Taylor Swift and we should be all set.

Quote from thewatcher

Fwiw, yes re the gen Z/Gen alpha vote. Charli XCX tweeted out "Kamala is brat" which is very meaningful,

So does the like Harris, or not?

Quote from foxfeeder

So does the like Harris, or not?

Yes! This was all news to me, but I remember when her first album came out (must be 15 years ago) loving the opening song Nuclear Seasons. I must check out the new one now.

This article is informative:

What Is Brat Summer? The Charli XCX Trend, Explained

How to be so Julia this summer.

www.glamour.com

Edit: an additional thought on Harris being the nominee. If she wants to create daylight between her and Biden, she really *really* needs to break with the untenable support of Israel.

Is it just me, or does Vance seem even more batshit crazy than Trump?

Who even knew such a thing was possible?

Quote from foxfeeder

Is it just me, or does Vance seem even more batshit crazy than Trump?

Who even knew such a thing was possible?

I think he's certainly channeling trump. He's gone from criticising him to being essentially his ventriloquist dummy which perhaps has some amplifying effect.

Some of the GOP reps are at least as unhinged as trump - Boebert, MTG, that guy who said if trump loses "we will NEED civil war" - how's that for "toning down the rhetoric"?!