Are political threads allowed?

  • It was the first thing I thought of. I was trying to emphasise that despite what the Trumpists think the world hasn't ended. It might be important but in the end US President is just that - a job. I see your smilies but I think I need to explain that.

    Yes . I got it. Hope you didn't I was being patronising. I couldn't help commenting. I wrote my exact thoughts as I read your post, I had a grin at the image of a gun fight to get him out. Bizarrely it's not looking beyond the realms of possibility. I wonder in what manner he actually will go .

    Edited once, last by thefarmer ().

  • That's how democracy works though, doesn't it? If you like to think with your head it's unlikely you are going to find another one that thinks exactly like you, let alone an entire party, so you are going to have to vote for the least bad of the lot, pretty much always, I'd say. People are fallible and ideas get corrupted, one of the many reasons why the GOP are successful is that they are of course scrupleless and pragmatists, they have a line, they follow it, whereas the left is often inclined to shoot themselves in the foot. It happened 4 years ago, when they decided that it was going to be either Bernie or dead and from what I read it's going to be the same again.

    You are so right about the left wing shooting themselves in the foot. I consider myself on the left. Always have been. Jeremy Corbyn best represented my view and I agreed with the majority of his 2017 manifesto ( though one or two things I had issues with on the last one) . HOWEVER I never wanted him as the leader because I knew he would never win. I had so many arguments with with left wing friends, ( I did help with election campaign '17 ) but I have sadly been prooved right. All we have at the end of it are three lost campaigns and a dreadful right wing govt. As an opposition leader , nothing was won , nothing was moderated. How people still want him and his clones back at top is beyond me. Tories here know how to win. I am closer , not close , to Bernie Sanders than Biden but if I was a democrat I would never have voted for him because if Sanders had gotten the nomination we would all be facing another 4 years of Trump for sure. So I'm still delighted that Biden has won .He seems decent, says reassuring things which is important. Most of all however he seems sane. He has ousted the insane Trump which clearly has not been an easy thing to do.

  • Why? Where has it got you, apart from maybe depressed? I didn't bother, and STILL came to exactly the same conclusion as you.


    It's to be hoped that he gets his come-uppance when the tax people etc catch up with him, but frankly, if he just disappears and Brand Trump never gets near any political office ever again, I'll be quite content.

    And another thing!! That post struck a chord with me. You are right about getting depressed by looking too much. It can effect you. I'm sure that my obsession with looking the state of the world led to me becoming properly depressed about a year ago and into this year

    Didn't do anyone any good. I have a need to know what's going on but I have avoid looking too much . It does me good being married to Mrs Farmer who has little interest in it all and steers me away from it . Sorting myself out now but it's not good focussing and getting angry all the time about what's going on. Still having good old arguments but it's too easy to get things out of perspective. Spend more time focussing on songs with animals in the title these days!!!

  • Mr FIC is the world's greatest cynic who leans much further to the right and is very fond of using the phrase 'trendy leftie' to describe me & my ilk. So my celebrations at the result have been somewhat muted. To be fair he doesn't like Trump either; he doesn't like any politicians. He just saves most of his vitriol for the left whom he regards as hypocrites of the first division. It's best not to get angry. It gets you nowhere. As you say Farmer, Sanders would have lost just as Corbyn lost. So it's the left which always has to compromise & move to the mythical centre. Why do the right never have to move left? Why is extreme right wing politics alway excused as about people feeling they are 'disenfranchised'?


    Anyway Trump nearly conceded today when he was talking about the vaccine but he couldn't bring himself to do so.

  • I am closer , not close , to Bernie Sanders than Biden but if I was a democrat I would never have voted for him because if Sanders had gotten the nomination we would all be facing another 4 years of Trump for sure.

    I believe Sanders' moment was 4 years ago. I think he would have beaten Trump then (but not now as you point out). He had the grassroots movement and the same kind of groundswell that Obama had in 2008. But to me, the DNC couldn't allow it and really rigged the primary for the most truly unelectable candidate in HRC.


    I often wonder what the world would be like if either Gore had won the 2000 election or Sanders won in 2016. Maybe the same but I doubt it. Especially the 2000 one, I think that was even more consequential. A lot more.

  • Lawsuits awaiting Trump on January 21st, 2021:


    Campaign Finance Violations (Secret money that came in from foreign countries for Trump's 2016 campaign)

    Massive Tax Fraud/Tax Evasion - A family tradition (he owes $420,000,000)

    Hush Money/Bribery (his mistress, Stormy Daniels, was paid $130,000 to silence her during the 2016 campaign, cover-up money for Trump Hotel construction in Russia, and he allegedly paid bribes to foreign officials to secure favorable treatment for his business interests overseas while he was President)

    Negligent Homicide (abandoning the country during a pandemic)

    Re-Impeachment (If he's found guilty, he could never run for President again)

    Obstruction of Justice (remember the Mueller investigation and Russia's influence on the 2016 election? Too bad Mueller didn't look into Trump's finances)

  • One of the signs at the so called 'MAGA' rally in Washington apparently read:


    “Trump 2020: Pro life, pro God, pro gun”.


    Could someone tell me what is 'pro God' about being armed to the teeth? Or 'pro LIFE'?


    Unfortunately DT's 'mood' has changed again once he saw his sycophantic followers;


    'People are not going to stand for having this Election stolen from them by a privately owned Radical Left company, Dominion, and many other reasons'!

  • You are so right about the left wing shooting themselves in the foot. I consider myself on the left. Always have been. Jeremy Corbyn best represented my view and I agreed with the majority of his 2017 manifesto ( though one or two things I had issues with on the last one) . HOWEVER I never wanted him as the leader because I knew he would never win. I had so many arguments with with left wing friends, ( I did help with election campaign '17 ) but I have sadly been prooved right. All we have at the end of it are three lost campaigns and a dreadful right wing govt. As an opposition leader , nothing was won , nothing was moderated. How people still want him and his clones back at top is beyond me. Tories here know how to win. I am closer , not close , to Bernie Sanders than Biden but if I was a democrat I would never have voted for him because if Sanders had gotten the nomination we would all be facing another 4 years of Trump for sure. So I'm still delighted that Biden has won .He seems decent, says reassuring things which is important. Most of all however he seems sane. He has ousted the insane Trump which clearly has not been an easy thing to do.

    Could it be you read it wrong? Maybe it said Prog God, it wouldn't make sense anyway but it'd be funnier because those people truly depress me.


    Perhaps you read wrong, maybe it said Prog God, it wouldn't make sense anyway but it'd be funnier.

  • Republicans continue to spread this ill-conceived message that Democrats are anti-life, anti-God, and anti-self defense.


    No one in their right mind would be pro-abortion. Roe vs Wade is about giving women the right to choose what happens to their body. This is what Democrats believe. Do we really think Republican women don't get abortions?


    Faith in God is not reserved for Republicans. I will say this: What type of Christian admires a man who at his very core is for the most part evil? Trump doesn't even talk the talk, let alone walk the walk.


    The right wing gun nut wackos live by the 2nd amendment, which was created in 1791 and gave citizens the right to keep and bear arms in order to protect themselves from foreign entities, not for use against American citizens. IMO, the 2nd amendment has no purpose in today's society.

  • Am not in the USA but surely the right to bear arms and protect yourself is different from the right to go round with assault weapons. Also most of our rights are subject to all of obeying laws. We're not allowed to drive if we don't have a license, in the USA your not allowed to live if you murder someone. I don't see why licenses and checks conflict with this ammendment. The right wing pro god don't get that God didn't actually write the constitution , it was done people. People can and have ammended it.

  • I'm frequently struck by the frameshift in what constitutes 'left', 'right' and especially 'far left' here.

    I hate all the "left" and "right" framing that hijacks every political discussion these days. Here in Germany particularly we seem to have entered an era in which "left" and "right" seem to be synonyms for "good" and "bad", or by now "trustful to your government" and "dangerous for society". I just hate it.

  • I hate all the "left" and "right" framing that hijacks every political discussion these days. Here in Germany particularly we seem to have entered an era in which "left" and "right" seem to be synonyms for "good" and "bad", or by now "trustful to your government" and "dangerous for society". I just hate it.

    I completely agree with you. We need to be voting for the person, not the party. I know many Americans who have voted Republican their entire life and only vote down party lines, ignorant of the issues involved in each election. It's very frustrating. They're not voting for Trump, they're voting Republican. They don't even know why. For this reason, the facts about Trump and all his ugliness are moot. As he has said, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." Republicans will twist the truth in order to win over voters. The current run-off election in Georgia is for 2 Senate seats that could give control of the Senate to the Democrats, but the political ads the Republicans are releasing contain blatantly false accusations against the Democrats. These are sick minds that wouldn't know the meaning of a "fair election." Oh, and Trump won't leave the White House...there's that.

  • I hate all the "left" and "right" framing that hijacks every political discussion these days. Here in Germany particularly we seem to have entered an era in which "left" and "right" seem to be synonyms for "good" and "bad", or by now "trustful to your government" and "dangerous for society". I just hate it.

    I think there's always been, and always will be, a spectrum of politics that goes from left to right. These are arbitrary terms and I don't know where they originated. I do agree that people box themselves in as one or the other and become blind to good ideas the 'other side' might have, and that this is lamentable. I think the 'left' for lack of a better term, at least in the US it seems to me, view themselves as inherently pure and correct. I agree much more with their policies but really dislike the moral posturing and all this woke bullshit going around. Neither side owns common sense or decency... A good example is the massachusetts governor who is a Republican and who comes across as a great guy. Very much guided by experts and data when it comes to the pandemic for example, and fully supporting of local leaders who are mostly Democrats (it is massachusetts after all) in whatever local measures they deem necessary. He goes out to bat for them in press conferences and gives them state resources to use. So I agree that left and right should not equate to good or bad, but I don't really agree that the concept shouldn't exist as I think it's useful nomenclature for communicating the idea of a spectrum. I guess left is more socialist and right is more capitalist? Or am I mixing political and economic terms there?

  • I think the 'left' for lack of a better term, at least in the US it seems to me, view themselves as inherently pure and correct. I agree much more with their policies but really dislike the moral posturing and all this woke bullshit going around. Neither side owns common sense or decency.

    You’re absolutely right, & it’s not just in the US. Many on the left in the US & the UK despise anyone who disagrees with them for whatever reason, & simply brand them as stupid or racist. It makes you wonder how many ordinary Republican & uncommitted voters chose to vote for Trump, or Boris in the UK, because they were sick of being the butt of this dismissive, patronising attitude from those who consider they have a right to rule because of their moral superiority.

  • I've got one final thought on the difference between Democrat and Republican. The Dems have been consistently on the side of the working man and woman. They believe that the government should be by the people, for the people and of the people. Politicians are elected by the people. It would do them good to remember this every time they make a decision that affects us. We need term limits for all politicians. They should not be making a career out of politics at our expense.


    For at least the last 20 years, the Republican party has been getting more and more corrupt. It is their core belief that the federal government has no place in making decisions for the people, and that local government should be making these decisions. Less government is better. This is why they are hell bent on not wanting nationalized healthcare. Even though 'democratic socialism' has existed for decades in the United States in the form of Social Security (retirement income for people 62 and older) and Medicare (healthcare for seniors). Both of these programs are funded by taxpayers through payroll deductions. The Feds 'borrow' this money for their limitless programs and never pay it back, which is why Medicare and Social Security are expected to be broke in the next 10 years.


    I've said before that I consider myself to be more of a centrist in politics. I'm a registered Democrat and have voted for candidates of both parties in years past. I vote for the person and not the party.


    Corruption is part and parcel to politics in every country, but America seems to be leading the way at the moment.

  • Many on the left in the US & the UK despise anyone who disagrees with them for whatever reason, & simply brand them as stupid or racist.

    Sadly this is true, and equally sadly the exact same is true of many on the right who despise everyone who don't share their views, and automatically dismiss them as 'woke' or 'libtards', 'luvvies' etc. This is all too often the level to which so much discourse has sunk, with each side dug in deep and refusing to give any ground as they shriek insults at each other.


    On social media I sometimes engage with people of opposing views, which tend to be right-wing as I identify as liberal. It's rare that I can have a reasoned discussion as often even the initially most reasonable people quickly resort to insults and condemn me as a loony leftie. I'm know I'm far from alone in this, and equally I try to discourage those who share my views from doing the same in the opposite direction.


    Both in the UK and the USA there has grown a huge division in society. I don't see any hint of those schisms being healed in the foreseeable future, especially with leaders who choose to deepen those divisions.

    Abandon all reason

  • Sadly this is true, and equally sadly the exact same is true of many on the right who despise everyone who don't share their views, and automatically dismiss them as 'woke' or 'libtards', 'luvvies' etc. This is all too often the level to which so much discourse has sunk, with each side dug in deep and refusing to give any ground as they shriek insults at each other.


    On social media I sometimes engage with people of opposing views, which tend to be right-wing as I identify as liberal. It's rare that I can have a reasoned discussion as often even the initially most reasonable people quickly resort to insults and condemn me as a loony leftie. I'm know I'm far from alone in this, and equally I try to discourage those who share my views from doing the same in the opposite direction.


    Both in the UK and the USA there has grown a huge division in society. I don't see any hint of those schisms being healed in the foreseeable future, especially with leaders who choose to deepen those divisions.

    Yes unfortunately some on both sides take a positive pride in not even trying to understand their opponent’s viewpoint, as if that was a virtue. The mutual hatred & polarisation predated Trump’s election, but of course he’s emphasized it for his own benefit. Although Biden himself won’t do that, it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to prevent his followers from continuing the antagonism, so I can’t see matters improving with Trump’s departure :(

  • It seems that this sort of disinterest in trying to meet the other side half way is tied in with both the popularisation of 24 hour news networks and social media/internet. Before then you could escape the news a lot easier if you wanted and there wasn't as much an outlet for everyday people's views. Now people find the news from the precise source and political slant they want, and find the groups online to backup whatever their political leaning is. It has created a kind of pack mentality on both sides.


    I don't see a way back from this poisonous political atmosphere without some major reforms of people's mentality and ability to reach across and have a reasonable discussion and understanding. I can only hope that some shift like that happens because social media and cable news certainly aren't going anywhere anytime soon.