Are political threads allowed?

  • Re above remarks from Art Vandaley and Liquid Len. Something about the process of typing opinions (about most things but more so politics) into a device screen often skews/renders them into deep polarisation. Everything, EVERYTHING, is EITHER apples OR oranges - there is nothing else, NOTHING, and depending on whether you prefer the apples or the oranges you are WRONG WRONG WRONG and utterly beyond help. And even when an exchange begins more moderately than that it all too often collapses into matter vs antimatter.


    My own perception is that this polarisation in public discourse has intensified during the last 5 years or so. I've always enjoyed a heated exchange - I am that customer in the Monty Python sketch, "I'd like to have an argument please" - but have found these recent years I'm frequently sucked into a battle of extremes, exacerbated by the fact that each 'side' is utterly convinced it's the other lot who are the worst when it comes to splattering insults or existing in a 'bubble' or 'echo chamber'.


    If not already apparent from previous posts I do have a 'side'. While I don't consider myself a "lefty" I do get called that by people of whom I'm more than a picometre to the left, but while having never voted Labour in any context I see myself as left of centre. Not that I'm sure there is a 'centre', more a sort of barren demilitarised zone. From where I am I see left and right going at each other like Alien vs Predator.


    I'm not trying to paint myself as Lord Arbiter of Balance, I know I've been guilty of lashing out but having seen others doing it I'm more conscious of reining myself in if I feel the gorge rising. I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard!

    Abandon all reason

  • Anyway, on the subject of this thread on this forum, as with other fan forum type sites I've been on, I like that there are off-topic areas. It's interesting to be in a fan community and get a taste of what fellow fans think about stuff outside the main focus - other bands, film, tv, sport, food and yes, politics. But I totally get board members preferring to focus on the band and not be drawn into other stuff, especially areas that might get tense or gloomy. But as mentioned, not that the topic of Genesis itself doesn't get tense - there have been some fruity old band-related ding-dongs round these parts.

    Abandon all reason

  • boredatwork

    "The Manchester Arena is back to its old self: very crowded, bar queues blocking the whole concourse, very few masks to be seen & no one asked to see Covid passes. It was great to be somewhere that felt normal rather than the dreaded “new” normal."


    I don't want to start a Covid row which is why I haven't mentioned it untill now but as you mention it . In Birmingham they did a quick visual check of the pass , it could've been from a cornflake box! In Manchester they didn't bother at all. I for one don't want to be crowded indoors with non vaccinated people. Having a decent queuing system for the bar does no one any harm . I was told Covid passes would be needed and felt ok to go but uncomfortable when I got there. Wearing a mask does no harm and may save a life or avoid a much needed hospital place. No doubt a life will be lost as result of this tour or lack of Covid safety if all the places are like this.

  • boredatwork

    "The Manchester Arena is back to its old self: very crowded, bar queues blocking the whole concourse, very few masks to be seen & no one asked to see Covid passes. It was great to be somewhere that felt normal rather than the dreaded “new” normal."


    I don't want to start a Covid row which is why I haven't mentioned it untill now but as you mention it . In Birmingham they did a quick visual check of the pass , it could've been from a cornflake box! In Manchester they didn't bother at all. I for one don't want to be crowded indoors with non vaccinated people. Having a decent queuing system for the bar does no one any harm . I was told Covid passes would be needed and felt ok to go but uncomfortable when I got there. Wearing a mask does no harm and may save a life or avoid a much needed hospital place. No doubt a life will be lost as result of this tour or lack of Covid safety if all the places are like this.

    Correction needed: I don’t think having bar queues blocking the concourse is a great idea, it’s a long term fault of the Arena’s design & I mentioned it only as a sign of things being back to normal.


    Given the overall UK vaccination totals & the age of those at the concert, I’m confident that most of us, including me, had been vaccinated & were therefore sufficiently well-protected to sit back & enjoy the show. Let’s all take reasonable precautions, but I can’t imagine anything more miserable than sitting through a long concert wearing a mask, a constant nagging joyless reminder of the pandemic that’s been ruining most aspects of our lives for far too long already.


    However, one thing management could do that would help reduce spread of the virus & definitely improve the atmosphere for most of the audience is to shut the bar when the show starts. That would stop the flow of idiots constantly squeezing up & down the narrow rows, disturbing everyone else by forcing them to stand up & breathe all over each other in much closer proximity than throughout the rest of the venue. If you’re looking for the likeliest source of infections at a concert, it’s right there!

  • Good post Backdrifter. And while we would probably disagree in regard to our political views (I lean right/Libertarian), I nonetheless would respect any opinion you'd put forth. The problem, however, is that this type of civil discourse doesn't generate "clicks" and by extension, marketing dollars, so this tends to get squashed in favor of the cutthroat, polarized arguments that are commonplace on social media. I found this interview on last week's Bill Maher show quite illuminating and also depressing, quite frankly:


  • Correction needed: I don’t think having bar queues blocking the concourse is a great idea, it’s a long term fault of the Arena’s design & I mentioned it only as a sign of things being back to normal.


    Given the overall UK vaccination totals & the age of those at the concert, I’m confident that most of us, including me, had been vaccinated & were therefore sufficiently well-protected to sit back & enjoy the show. Let’s all take reasonable precautions, but I can’t imagine anything more miserable than sitting through a long concert wearing a mask, a constant nagging joyless reminder of the pandemic that’s been ruining most aspects of our lives for far too long already.


    However, one thing management could do that would help reduce spread of the virus & definitely improve the atmosphere for most of the audience is to shut the bar when the show starts. That would stop the flow of idiots constantly squeezing up & down the narrow rows, disturbing everyone else by forcing them to stand up & breathe all over each other in much closer proximity than throughout the rest of the venue. If you’re looking for the likeliest source of infections at a concert, it’s right there!

    I agree with most of that. I felt air when seated at both Birmingham and Manchester, so a I guess a filtration system was working and felt fairly safe . Also when seated you hope you're not within distance of CV positive person , so quite a limited number , whilst out in the crush there's loads of people. There was / is no reason not to have a queuing system. Mrs Farmer' and I both kept our masks on. We're not stopping living or enjoying ourselves but remain anxious about picking up CV and passing to my parents in their 90s, my vulnerable daughter, or Mrs Farmers older immune deficient mother . ( All of whom rely on us to an extent ) We lost Mrs Farmer' s much loved father to Covid and hoping we don't loose anyone else. Mrs Farmer' and I have to wear masks everyday all day at work so wearing a mask at the show was no big deal. Getting out to a concert though, the first one for almost two years was however a really big deal . Keeping a mask on is nothing really if it helps save a life.

  • Two somewhat political news items I came across today.


    Julian Assange. I knew the story in broad strokes and felt the way he was treated was scandalous, with being holed up in the Equadorian embassy. But I didn't know he was currently being held in one of the UK's most maximum security prisons, with 23 hours solitary confinement per day. And he's being held in those conditions on a misdemeanor! In the bloody UK! It's an awful attack on free speech and journalism. And what maybe surprised me most of all, is that apparently one of the only mainstream reporters (if you want to call him that) consistently highlighting his case for being unjust and calling for his release is Tucker Carlson. I generally loathe him, and hence can't verify this claim apart from one illuminating interview he did with Roger Waters (yes, the Wall dude) that I watched. It's worth a look.


    And COVID. I was more than a little disturbed to learn today that the whole lab creation conspiracy might not be a conspiracy. I always thought it was possible a natural virus escaped from a lab - why not? - but not that it was engineered. It transpires a zoologist in NY called Daszak applied for funding from DARPA to create a coronavirus that would be used to infect bats in south east Asia, with the goal of stimulating an immune response so that the bats could fight off all the potentially pandemic-causing coronaviruses they carry naturally. (The justification for asking DARPA for $16 million was that the geopolitics of SE Asia are such that American soldiers are likely to be deployed there at different times 🙄). They turned him down saying the proposal was too dangerous. It didn't stop him getting funding and carrying out the work with collaborators including the virology lab in Wuhan. This project included submitting interim work to secure continued support - which was reviewed and signed off on by Dr Fauci! The proposal to DARPA which has been leaked by a whistleblower and is the source for these claims, includes a technical description of the plan featuring what has been called a "recipe" for SARS-CoV-2. I don't take any of this as a smoking gun but it looks really bad.


    https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebrigh…/1439970800115675136?s=19

  • However, one thing management could do that would help reduce spread of the virus & definitely improve the atmosphere for most of the audience is to shut the bar when the show starts. That would stop the flow of idiots constantly squeezing up & down the narrow rows, disturbing everyone else by forcing them to stand up & breathe all over each other in much closer proximity than throughout the rest of the venue. If you’re looking for the likeliest source of infections at a concert, it’s right there!

    While I'm more with thefarmer in his follow-up post re masks, and unsure about bar-hounds being the most likely vector (though I wouldn't dismiss it either - it certainly can't be helping) I'd absolutely LOVE venues to close bars at showtime. Never going to happen of course, they wouldn't close off that revenue - not the same thing, but I've often heard that cinemas' revenue is mainly food and drink, way more than actual screenings and while that won't equate with gigs they must have significant footfall during the show.


    But yes, it irritates the hell out of me there's this near-constant stream of bodies shuffling along rows and in my eyeline so they can get their precious beer fix. Plus I'm sure there's an element of "I'm a rock fan, it's in my contract to absorb as much beer as possible. BEEEER! RAAAWWK AND ROOLLLLL!"

    Abandon all reason

  • I need a lot more time to process a post that invokes Julian Assange, Tucker Carlson, Roger Waters and the possibility of covid being lab-manufactured.

    😬

    Abandon all reason

  • I need a lot more time to process a post that invokes Julian Assange, Tucker Carlson, Roger Waters and the possibility of covid being lab-manufactured.

    😬

    😆 I can imagine Have I Got News For You doing a skit where the newsreader gets more and more depressed as they go.

  • .

    l've often heard that cinemas' revenue is mainly food and drink, way more than actual screenings and while that won't equate with gigs they must have significant footfall during the show


    Plus I'm sure there's an element of "I'm a rock fan, it's in my contract to absorb as much beer as possible. BEEEER! RAAAWWK AND ROOLLLLL!"

    Re Para 1. I have always been vehemently opposed to capital punishment except for people chomping throughout a film. It puts me off going. That really is an extreme crime that deserves nothing less than death. Alongside that with equal repugnance are umbrella users at festivals and shoulder sitters. Shoulder sitters are usually girls who want nothing more than to be seen and admired as they usually look more at the crowd looking to see who is looking at them , supported by their boyfriends who want to impress their girl by showing how strong they are , and they deserve the same punishment. Occasionally a shoulder sitter is a pissed topless young man waving his shirt around at a raucous gig but they don't don't matter because they tend to fall over quite quickly .


    Para 2. Beer and Rock n Roll go together quite well but not really Genesis who do a show worth taking in and play places where the beer costs so much they provide forms to take loans out at the bar , provided of course you put up your house as collateral.. Can't say I'm that fussed about the occasional bod going to the bar / toilet . though.

  • But yes, it irritates the hell out of me there's this near-constant stream of bodies shuffling along rows and in my eyeline so they can get their precious beer fix. Plus I'm sure there's an element of "I'm a rock fan, it's in my contract to absorb as much beer as possible. BEEEER! RAAAWWK AND ROOLLLLL!"

    At a gig, I may have a shandy or a bottle of lager before the show starts. That's it. Don't see the need to lose consciousness when I've paid good money to see an act I like. Do that the following night if that's your bag.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • At a gig, I may have a shandy or a bottle of lager before the show starts. That's it. Don't see the need to lose consciousness when I've paid good money to see an act I like. Do that the following night if that's your bag.

    Two things I'm reminded of. Years ago someone said they and a friend travelled to a gig, stayed at a hotel. The friend was intent on drinking as much as possible, so my acquaintance said they were heading to the venue to start queueing for general admission, they'd see them at the gig and left him to his boozing. The friend didn't meet him, and when he got back to the hotel he found the friend unconscious in the room, having drunk himself senseless and missed the gig. Oh how I laughed.


    The other thing again relates to this "rock = BEER" thing. A mega rock-head once told me "a curry and a few beers is a real METAL thing to do". It was one of the stupidest things I'd heard but it made me laugh - "I'll have a chicken perogative, extra spicy mind, and rice". I also read a piece about rock fans and their idols and this beeriness, citing members of Iron Maiden being amused by their fans downing beer and chips 'cos that's what rockers do, while the band themselves before gigs tended to pick delicately at carrot sticks and yoghurty dips while sipping mineral water.


    Wow this has really wandered away from politics!

    Abandon all reason

  • Two things I'm reminded of. Years ago someone said they and a friend travelled to a gig, stayed at a hotel. The friend was intent on drinking as much as possible, so my acquaintance said they were heading to the venue to start queueing for general admission, they'd see them at the gig and left him to his boozing. The friend didn't meet him, and when he got back to the hotel he found the friend unconscious in the room, having drunk himself senseless and missed the gig. Oh how I laughed.


    The other thing again relates to this "rock = BEER" thing. A mega rock-head once told me "a curry and a few beers is a real METAL thing to do". It was one of the stupidest things I'd heard but it made me laugh - "I'll have a chicken perogative, extra spicy mind, and rice". I also read a piece about rock fans and their idols and this beeriness, citing members of Iron Maiden being amused by their fans downing beer and chips 'cos that's what rockers do, while the band themselves before gigs tended to pick delicately at carrot sticks and yoghurty dips while sipping mineral water.


    Wow this has really wandered away from politics!

    To be fair, if I had to attend an Iron Maiden gig, I might aim for the "drink myself senseless in my hotel room" option. ^^

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Not a misheard lyric, but a misread headline.


    Glancing at the Guardian (us edition) I saw "United Airlines: carrier sets fire to nearly 600 workers for defying vaccine mandate".


    Cripes, that's pretty harsh I thought!

  • Not a misheard lyric either, but an odd phenomenon I've had before, with other songs, but every time I hear "I don't know" by Celine Dion, I end up singing the words from "I get a kick out of you" to it. Guess the structure of the song must be similar, and my brain is derailing onto the other song.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Not a misheard lyric either, but an odd phenomenon I've had before, with other songs, but every time I hear "I don't know" by Celine Dion, I end up singing the words from "I get a kick out of you" to it. Guess the structure of the song must be similar, and my brain is derailing onto the other song.

    I occasionally have a similar thing happen with songs that in my head morph into other songs, but of course I can't think of any examples right now. By the way, do you often hear I Don't Know by Celine Dion?


    Meanwhile - wow, all those politics, eh?

    Abandon all reason

  • ....in fact - I suppose this is sort of possibly political in that it involves a party leader: Labour's Kier Starmer is the latest to publicly say there should be a female James Bond. Now, I've no strong view on that, and I'm no fan of Starmer and his insipid party but kudos to him for triggering a wave of often hilarious, occasionally pompous outrage with his repetition of this worn-out scrap of clickbait. I've just been on twitter chuckling at some of it. One guy said it was a potentially dangerous disruption of parameters and order. When I told him how amused I was by that, he said my denial of it is "a problem for all of us". Based on his other views and comments I had to conclude he wasn't joking. Though I was touched at his belief in the reach of my influence. His comment summed up the flavour of a lot of what was being said but was particularly funny. (He then dovetailed the Bond thing into an outburst on transgender issues).


    It's likely there's been more attention paid to that one comment by Starmer than anything he said, assuming he did, about any Labour policy, assuming there is such a thing.

    Abandon all reason

  • Not a misheard lyric, but a misread headline.


    Glancing at the Guardian (us edition) I saw "United Airlines: carrier sets fire to nearly 600 workers for defying vaccine mandate".


    Cripes, that's pretty harsh I thought!

    593, to be exact. For the record, I am pro science and pro vax. However, I can't very nervous when I see corporations take such draconian measures. I can't imagine these kinds of actions won't end up as class action lawsuits but I"m not a lawyer....