[SPOILERS] GENESIS 2021 setlist discussion

  • for example "I Can't Dance" given that Mike heaps and lavishes an outpouring of praise upon that damned song every chance he gets!

    Well, Mike does play a pivotal role in the song. It was also a big hit which took on a new lease of life onstage. And it was something of a breakthrough for the band, being totally unlike anything they'd done before. And it was from the last really successful studio album they recorded.

  • Is it improbably long though? I wouldn't be much longer than their 2007 shows, by my calculation it would only take a bit over 2 and a half hours, so you might have to trim some songs out but I don't reckon many. I guess you also have to take into account the fact that they are all 13 years older! And yes, I left of a few which I'm sure they will play, for example "I Can't Dance" given that Mike heaps and lavishes an outpouring of praise upon that damned song every chance he gets! I actually really like my idea of them doing Fountain of Salmacis - it's their second best song, the vocals are manageable and it would be a great surprise for their fans.

    It seems like a reasonable length to me. And fountain of salmacis would be *great*.


    The best setlist for me would be one that's not 'set'. Yes I could easily have a fantasy list, but I'd rather they widened the scope and didn't play the same show every night. That way they could even play 'that damned song' on some nights but not have it be a rigid fixture. Not everyone wants to hear it. I'd go as far as to say that no song should be sacrosanct. Maybe swap dreaming while you sleep for home by the sea some nights.

  • It seems like a reasonable length to me. And fountain of salmacis would be *great*.


    The best setlist for me would be one that's not 'set'. Yes I could easily have a fantasy list, but I'd rather they widened the scope and didn't play the same show every night. That way they could even play 'that damned song' on some nights but not have it be a rigid fixture. Not everyone wants to hear it. I'd go as far as to say that no song should be sacrosanct. Maybe swap dreaming while you sleep for home by the sea some nights.

    I think you're missing the point somewhat. Genesis have simply never been the kind of band who change their setlists like some other bands mentioned here do. They tend to adhere to the belief that everyone who comes to see them should have the same experience; of course there will be fans who go to more than one show but this isn't a show which is going to cater to the whims of a minority.


    The comment "not everyone wants to hear it" highlights the problem that any artist faces when they go out on tour, which is that they're never going to please everyone.


    And I'm afraid you're quite wrong in that attitude that not every song should be sacrosanct. There are certain songs that an audience expects to hear, that the artist feels duty bound to perform even though they might hate performing the tune. Imagine if Phil went on the road and didn't sing In The Air Tonight, for instance, or Sussudio. He'd be lynched!

  • I'm more on the "not sacrosanct" side and think it's a real shame that a band might feel it's their duty to keep doing a song they hate performing at every gig. Of course there are ones a large proportion of the audience want/expect to hear and I get a band's wanting to recognise and satisfy that but I don't think they should do so to the extent they always do ones they hate playing. Though it's different for one-hit wonders. Imagine Chesney Hawks not doing The One & Only. Or worse, Lieutenant Pigeon not playing Mouldy Old Dough. There'd definitely be a lynching then - along with rioting, vandalism and possibly arson. Lieutenant Pigeon fans are vicious.


    With Genesis yes it's pointless to hope for regular set changes but not for there possibly being some interesting choices this time around.

    Abandon all reason

  • I think you're missing the point somewhat. Genesis have simply never been the kind of band who change their setlists like some other bands mentioned here do. They tend to adhere to the belief that everyone who comes to see them should have the same experience; of course there will be fans who go to more than one show but this isn't a show which is going to cater to the whims of a minority.


    The comment "not everyone wants to hear it" highlights the problem that any artist faces when they go out on tour, which is that they're never going to please everyone.


    And I'm afraid you're quite wrong in that attitude that not every song should be sacrosanct. There are certain songs that an audience expects to hear, that the artist feels duty bound to perform even though they might hate performing the tune. Imagine if Phil went on the road and didn't sing In The Air Tonight, for instance, or Sussudio. He'd be lynched!

    True, but they will need to sacrifice some of those sacrosanct songs in order to make room for a few more interesting or surprising choices to make this tour more satisfying and unique. And with regard to the sanctity of Genesis songs, I guess they are kind of in a weird position given that there were 6 albums released during the 6-7 years Peter was in the band, but only 8 Phil albums despite his time as the lead singer far exceeding Peter's, which was 15 or so years. So obviously the band probably see their later material as being their main or most current sound, it doesn't necessarily mirror their recorded output. I kind of phrased that not very well but maybe it makes sense.

  • I think you're missing the point somewhat. Genesis have simply never been the kind of band who change their setlists like some other bands mentioned here do.


    ...


    And I'm afraid you're quite wrong in that attitude that not every song should be sacrosanct. There are certain songs that an audience expects to hear, that the artist feels duty bound to perform even though they might hate performing the tune. Imagine if Phil went on the road and didn't sing In The Air Tonight, for instance, or Sussudio. He'd be lynched!

    Sigh. That is my point. Exactly. Genesis have never been that kind of band. I think they should have been, and they could be on this (probably) last tour. Their catalog is too deep to choose only two and a half hours to play every night.


    As for being wrong about songs being untouchable? You know what, Phil could go out and not play in the air tonight. And Genesis really (really) could go out and not play I can't dance/invisible touch. And they wouldn't be lynched. They'd be fine, and so would the audience. they might even get some kudos for having the balls to omit a big hit. The crowd would get to hear something else from the band. This is not some wooly personal desire to hear an impossible set full of can utility or feeding the fire or whatever. I'd just like to see them branch out when the opportunity is there. Even a couple substitutions of like for like would be better than nothing; for example, instead of playing firth of fifth every night, have three or four similar length songs that could rotate into that slot (eg firth/hogweed/get em out by Friday/one for the vine). Instead of invisible touch every night switch it out for misunderstanding/that's all/Jesus he knows me.


    That's all. Nothing earth shattering. I think it would make it more exciting, and do their catalog more justice.

  • Sigh. That is my point. Exactly. Genesis have never been that kind of band. I think they should have been, and they could be on this (probably) last tour. Their catalog is too deep to choose only two and a half hours to play every night.


    As for being wrong about songs being untouchable? You know what, Phil could go out and not play in the air tonight. And Genesis really (really) could go out and not play I can't dance/invisible touch. And they wouldn't be lynched. They'd be fine, and so would the audience. they might even get some kudos for having the balls to omit a big hit. The crowd would get to hear something else from the band.

    Yeah. I've only been a professional singer since the mid-nineties so what do I know, eh? Carry on, as you were, old son, you clearly know more about this issue than do. "Sigh", indeed.

  • There are certain songs that an audience expects to hear, that the artist feels duty bound to perform even though they might hate performing the tune. Imagine if Phil went on the road and didn't sing In The Air Tonight, for instance, or Sussudio. He'd be lynched!

    That's why a Bob Dylan always performs exactly what an average audience of casual pop music listeners would expect him to.

  • New here but been a Genesis fan since 1980...following this thread with interest.


    The guys themselves have mentioned that there are certain songs that are expected....I would guess that means Invisible Touch, Mama (if Phil can handle the vocals), I Can't Dance etc. I am assuming Domino/Last Domino will be in the list due to the name of the tour.


    But interestingly they've also mentioned Nic Collins enjoying some of the earlier songs that the rest of the band haven't played in decades...Tony Banks has specifically said that Nic's drumming being like Phil's was in "the early days" means they're looking at playing such material on tour.


    Nic is known to be a fan of Cinema Show and Watcher. I'm wondering if they'll open with an instrumental only version of Watcher.


    Additionally those interviews they all gave in 2007/8 for the remix/remasters clearly gave them the opportunity to listen to albums they hadn't listened to in a long time....reminded them of songs they'd long forgotten. I do suspect there will be one or two genuine surprises assuming this tour can take place.

  • Sigh. That is my point. Exactly. Genesis have never been that kind of band. I think they should have been, and they could be on this (probably) last tour. Their catalog is too deep to choose only two and a half hours to play every night.


    As for being wrong about songs being untouchable? You know what, Phil could go out and not play in the air tonight. And Genesis really (really) could go out and not play I can't dance/invisible touch. And they wouldn't be lynched. They'd be fine, and so would the audience. they might even get some kudos for having the balls to omit a big hit. The crowd would get to hear something else from the band. This is not some wooly personal desire to hear an impossible set full of can utility or feeding the fire or whatever. I'd just like to see them branch out when the opportunity is there. Even a couple substitutions of like for like would be better than nothing; for example, instead of playing firth of fifth every night, have three or four similar length songs that could rotate into that slot (eg firth/hogweed/get em out by Friday/one for the vine). Instead of invisible touch every night switch it out for misunderstanding/that's all/Jesus he knows me.


    That's all. Nothing earth shattering. I think it would make it more exciting, and do their catalog more justice.

    There is another option, used by my second favourite band, Cock Robin. (No. 1? Not Genesis, I'm afraid.) Do the hits, but along with other songs, re-arrange them completely. They do some songs totally like the studio cuts, some a bit different, but, on the 1990 tour, as featured in their live at Paris Grand Rex video, Just Around the Corner, a full Bass/drums/keyboards/electric guitar track, was done by the band leader, Peter Kingsbery, as a vocal and acoustic guitar song. Great version, great audience reaction.



    The original:

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Additionally those interviews they all gave in 2007/8 for the remix/remasters clearly gave them the opportunity to listen to albums they hadn't listened to in a long time....reminded them of songs they'd long forgotten. I do suspect there will be one or two genuine surprises assuming this tour can take place.

    I hope you're right! The remixes were a while ago but with the addition of Nic maybe there will be a few fresh ideas bouncing around. As regards the tour taking place, I cannot see it happening on the current schedule. I think they will have to look at next year sometime, and even then it might not be 20 or 30 thousand people jammed into an arena. By itself these things - more time to prepare, smaller venues - might make a flexible setlist with a surprise or two more likely.


    A small thing I thought would be neat is a short section in each show called 'unfinished business' which could just be one song each night that they've never played before. Nothing like do the neurotic but they have a small pool of songs like many too many, heathaze, way of the world etc that I don't think would be hard to play and would be a real treat for the long time/hard core fans that will inevitably be present.

  • There is another option, used by my second favourite band, Cock Robin. (No. 1? Not Genesis, I'm afraid.) Do the hits, but along with other songs, re-arrange them completely. They do some songs totally like the studio cuts, some a bit different, but, on the 1990 tour, as featured in their live at Paris Grand Rex video, Just Around the Corner, a full Bass/drums/keyboards/electric guitar track, was done by the band leader, Peter Kingsbery, as a vocal and acoustic guitar song. Great version, great audience reaction.

    cool. I'm not familiar with the band but will check them out. I'm not the biggest fan of live stripped down acoustic versions of songs that are 'big' in the studio but anything different can be interesting for sure. I remember the 1997/98 media presentations when they did acoustic versions of no son of mine and a couple others (I think) and they were nice.

  • cool. I'm not familiar with the band but will check them out. I'm not the biggest fan of live stripped down acoustic versions of songs that are 'big' in the studio but anything different can be interesting for sure. I remember the 1997/98 media presentations when they did acoustic versions of no son of mine and a couple others (I think) and they were nice.

    Very good band, started life in 1984, I'd recommend 1989's First Love/Last Rites (the last album before the break-up) and the 2006 reformation album, I Don't Want To Save The World as best start points, but Peter Kingsbery (band leader and pretty much the songwriter on his own) has 4 solo albums from the intervening years, all of which are very good, hard to pick one over the others, though the last one, Mon Inconnue, is almost exclusively sung in French.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Although I love artists that rework their songs live periodically, Genesis historically has not done this. They may change the tempo, drop a verse, change the keyboard sound, change the key. But the song remains much the same as the recorded version. The exception is the acoustic versions on the Genesis Songbook DVD.


    As we have discussed many times, when Genesis plays larger shows, a significant portion of the audience mainly knows the radio hits and is unfamiliar with what many of us on the forum feel are the more interesting songs. I think that the band views those familiar with the hits just as legitimately part of the audience as those who nod knowingly when they quote Stagnation in I Know What I Like. So I think they will still try to please both. They will play many of the well known ones that many of us are a bit tired of. They will also pull out a few old chestnuts, I hope with a few surprises. Post hoc we will quibble about the balance between these two choices, as we always do.


    As for changing up the setlist throughout the tour, as people have noted above, they tend not to do this. The most common practice is to try out some songs early in the tour and drop the ones that aren't working. They seem to be comfortable playing the same setlist night after night, so I can't imagine they would want to do differently.

  • While I'd love them to have a "spot" each night where they pull something unusual out of the bag, that just isn't their MO. Fluid setlists aren't Genesis' bag. In the days of worldwide tours that ran for many months they might swap one song out after touring one continent but they've never been the kind of band that slips in something different every night.


    I once had an idea that they could do a 2 hour set followed by one side of The Lamb...rotating which side it was every night...but it's not only a lot of music to rehearse it's just not their style.


    One can fantasise though.....even if we keep it to shorter songs....Time Table one night, On The Shoreline the next, an abbreviated Knife....even For Absent Friends...The Brazilian....lots of quite interesting stuff there.


    But I think ultimately, the guys have spoken....the familiar hits that the majority of the audience expect will be there. They said that in their Radio 2 spot. At this point it isn't a Genesis concert without Invisible Touch any more than Yes could get away without doing Roundabout. The more tantalising thing is Tony and Mike alluding to Nic's drumming feeling like Phil's did in the early days which has lead them to rehearse some material that hasn't been heard in a *long* time. I'm quite confident that at least one song they haven't done since the 70s will emerge.

  • was thinking how unusual it is for a band not play all or part of one of their major songs..ie SR. Most fans who have bought more than the last few albums would probably put it in their top 3 tracks.

    Appreciate the length of song has some reason for this but always thought that any medley could start and end with the opening and closing section of the song and would work as bookends

    Would be even more apt just for the line...' its it's good to see you again...'