Corona Virus - Stay Safe

Quote from foxfeeder

You know, posts on this and other threads, about the Covid situation, and how it has made concerts going/planning so difficult, does make me wonder:

How would all these keyboard warriors/self-appointed experts/conspiracy theorists/moaners have coped with nearly 6 years of hardship and uncertainty over whether we WOULD "get through this" during World War 2? God forbid anything like that should happen again, but if it did, how would they cope with the food rationing, restriction of freedom, lack of even many of the basics, and general air of futility? Personally, I doubt they would!

Thank God we had Captain Sir Tom to remind us what real people can do.

There are some differences. In WWII those who weren't conscripted into the armed forces were never prevented from socialising with friends or seeing family. Sure there were blackouts and rationing but people were permitted to travel from town to town, hold dinner parties (with blacked out windows), go to the pub and so on.

As someone who is emerging from this with a certain amount of psychological damage due to not being able to do those things I do understand it's not quite the same.....but....I doubt we had the kind of lunacy which leads some people to rip face masks of strangers, scream at them that there's no virus, flout rules which are clearly proven to slow and even halt the spread of respiratory viruses.

One thing I don't understand is the extreme views on face masks that seem prevalent in parts of the USA and do exist in smaller numbers here in the UK....including the demonstrably false notion that masks kill people due to having chemicals impregnated in them or due to insufficient oxygen getting to the brain and so on. Do these people not realise that in several East Asian countries they've habitually worn masks inside and outside in winter seasons for decades? Because they know it's both safe and halts spread of respiratory illness. Is it my favourite item of clothing? No. Is it potentially the most important item of clothing? Yes.

"But you have to wash them between uses. It's tooooooo hard". Don't you wash your clothes?

Part of the problem is that our societies are pretty statistically and scientifically illiterate. Even the basics that we teach in school aren't actually filtering into people's brains. And somehow "Karen on Youtube" seems to have as much credibility to some as a person dripping with doctorates and experience. But in a world where we had to teach allegedly functional adults how to wash their hands 18 months ago.....perhaps I ought not to be so surprised.

Quote from vl1

Lots of claims there, suggest you pop on PHE website for starters to to check them.

The idea that there was no spread at mass events is wrong for a start. Vaccines don't provide immunity, vaccinated people can catch and spread covid.

Oh for crying out loud they do provide immunity. But it's not perfect.

If you think my claims are wrong, you're more than welcome to provide the evidence.

See my other post about scientific and statistical illiteracy.

Do your own research, the estimates of infections at mass test events are on the phe website. The idea that 100's of thousands of people can gather at an event in the middle of a pandemic and there will be no infections is ludicrous, as is the idea that you can pin the source of infection to a zone.

"585 cases from the Grand Prix show that 343 of those cases were likely to have already been infectious around the time of the event, while 242 cases are from people likely to have acquired an infection around the time of the event"

"Data from The Wimbledon Championships, which hosted around 300,000 people over a two week period, recorded 881 cases through NHS Test and Trace."

"The associated Public Health England / NHS Test and Trace data for the EURO 2020 final shows that 2,295 people in or around the stadium were likely to have been infectious at the time of the event, with an additional 3,404 people in and around the stadium potentially acquiring infection around the time of the event."

Check out what's happening in Israel.

Quote from vl1

The idea that 100's of thousands of people can gather at an event in the middle of a pandemic and there will be no infections is ludicrous.

But you know the goal isn't 'no infections' don't you? That's not what immunity is. You seem to be mistaking the vaccine for an impregnable shield of armor. It's not. You can still get infected but probably with a trivial illness. You could pass it on to someone else. If they are vaccinated they'll probably get a trivial illness. If they were stupid enough not to get vaccinated in a pandemic, they are more likely to get really really sick. Like the radio guy in Tennessee.

If you blow the numbers up to millions of people on either side of these viewpoints, you end up with the vexing horror show we have now.

Quote from absinthe_boy

One thing I don't understand is the extreme views on face masks that seem prevalent in parts of the USA and do exist in smaller numbers here in the UK....including the demonstrably false notion that masks kill people due to having chemicals impregnated in them or due to insufficient oxygen getting to the brain and so on. Do these people not realise that in several East Asian countries they've habitually worn masks inside and outside in winter seasons for decades? Because they know it's both safe and halts spread of respiratory illness. Is it my favourite item of clothing? No. Is it potentially the most important item of clothing? Yes.

Interesting article here on the psychology of pandemics that is relevant to your comment about face masks; https://www.google.com/amp/s/a…y-pandemics-steven-taylor

I think psychological reactance as mentioned in the article, is a more American trait (kind of like "rugged individualism", but much more short sighted and stupid) which might go some way to explaining local resistance to public health measures. But also the combination of social media and the political environment here leads to a gigantic echo chamber full of psychologically reactant dummies.

Quote from BassAnd12Man

You want a really crazy (maybe not so crazy :)) post fox feeder? I agree with you that what we're going through now pales in comparison to what past generations have endured, whether war, the pandemics (1918), etc. However, I am of the opinion that the current generation (I'm knocking on 60 so not sure that I fit in that category) is completely riddled with anxieties, depression, etc. due to cell phones and social media. And yes, the irony of typing that statement on a chat board has not escaped me. There's actually research (no, I have not read it) which suggests that most kids today (i.e. anyone who's grown up with the internet, social media and devices - i.e. not me) have this fairly strong level of anxiety about them. I won't even mention the attention deficit disorder which is horrible. Everyone on their damn smartphones every 3 seconds. That has to have repercussions, not only behaviorally, but also neurologically. All that to say that people have such a thin skin now that everything gets blown out of proportion. Once I retire, the smart phone is getting run over by my car; that will be one of the happiest days of my life.

I agree. We're similar ages, I'm 62. I DON'T have a msartphone! I have a Nokia 1616. Google it. Basic as the old 3310, which it replaced.

Quote from absinthe_boy

There are some differences. In WWII those who weren't conscripted into the armed forces were never prevented from socialising with friends or seeing family. Sure there were blackouts and rationing but people were permitted to travel from town to town, hold dinner parties (with blacked out windows), go to the pub and so on.

As someone who is emerging from this with a certain amount of psychological damage due to not being able to do those things I do understand it's not quite the same.....but....I doubt we had the kind of lunacy which leads some people to rip face masks of strangers, scream at them that there's no virus, flout rules which are clearly proven to slow and even halt the spread of respiratory viruses.

One thing I don't understand is the extreme views on face masks that seem prevalent in parts of the USA and do exist in smaller numbers here in the UK....including the demonstrably false notion that masks kill people due to having chemicals impregnated in them or due to insufficient oxygen getting to the brain and so on. Do these people not realise that in several East Asian countries they've habitually worn masks inside and outside in winter seasons for decades? Because they know it's both safe and halts spread of respiratory illness. Is it my favourite item of clothing? No. Is it potentially the most important item of clothing? Yes.

"But you have to wash them between uses. It's tooooooo hard". Don't you wash your clothes?

Part of the problem is that our societies are pretty statistically and scientifically illiterate. Even the basics that we teach in school aren't actually filtering into people's brains. And somehow "Karen on Youtube" seems to have as much credibility to some as a person dripping with doctorates and experience. But in a world where we had to teach allegedly functional adults how to wash their hands 18 months ago.....perhaps I ought not to be so surprised.

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I think we are, effectively, singing from the same song sheet here. I've made posts that are, paraphrased, the same as the bit I've highlighted in yours. It is, in effect, the absolute issue with the internet in this scenario, what started as IT has become "misinformation technology".

Quote from vl1

Do your own research, the estimates of infections at mass test events are on the phe website. The idea that 100's of thousands of people can gather at an event in the middle of a pandemic and there will be no infections is ludicrous, as is the idea that you can pin the source of infection to a zone.

"585 cases from the Grand Prix show that 343 of those cases were likely to have already been infectious around the time of the event, while 242 cases are from people likely to have acquired an infection around the time of the event"

"Data from The Wimbledon Championships, which hosted around 300,000 people over a two week period, recorded 881 cases through NHS Test and Trace."

"The associated Public Health England / NHS Test and Trace data for the EURO 2020 final shows that 2,295 people in or around the stadium were likely to have been infectious at the time of the event, with an additional 3,404 people in and around the stadium potentially acquiring infection around the time of the event."

Check out what's happening in Israel.

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Just curious: do the numbers you quoted include the number of breakthrough infections as a result of these events?

I do not know any smart person using a smartphone. It seems the smart is transferred from man to phone. Anyway, with all those numbers for falsening statistics: Why is "number" abbreviated as "no"? When there is no "o" in number?

Quote from Murdock

Why is "number" abbreviated as "no"? When there is no "o" in number?

I think that as with a lot in the English language it's derived from Latin, in this case numero and it was common to use the first and last letters as an abbreviation (a practice carried through in words such as doctor)

Right. numerus and its ablative form numero can be seen as the source. And numero also means "I COUNT" as it is the verb numerare.

Obviously numero is also italian.

Found out this morning that my next-door neighbors (husband and wife in their mid 50s) were sent to the hospital last night with trouble breathing and a fever. They were told they have full blown COVID pneumonia. They are anti-vaxers and Trump fans, filled full of conspiracy nonsense. We've told them over and over again to get vaccinated. Last week, she told me she would be willing to pay someone for a forged vaccine card to make it easy to get into places. This is the height of irresponsibility. As much as I hate to hear that they are very sick, there's a certain satisfaction in knowing that I pointed them in the right direction. I suppose it was their 'right' to look the other way...

Quote from CountingOutTime

Found out this morning that my next-door neighbors (husband and wife in their mid 50s) were sent to the hospital last night with trouble breathing and a fever. They were told they have full blown COVID pneumonia. They are anti-vaxers and Trump fans, filled full of conspiracy nonsense. We've told them over and over again to get vaccinated. Last week, she told me she would be willing to pay someone for a forged vaccine card to make it easy to get into places. This is the height of irresponsibility. As much as I hate to hear that they are very sick, there's a certain satisfaction in knowing that I pointed them in the right direction. I suppose it was their 'right' to look the other way...

"But muh freeeedom..."

Here are a few words of mine about the vaccines and the virus as a continuation of a remark I did in another thread.

The vaccines have not been tested as long as is standard when developing vaccines. The testing scheme has been altered in order to be able to use the vaccines earlier.

No one knows what side effects may surface after a few years. Don’t forget those who suffer from narcolepsy because of the H1N1 vaccine. Also, the mRNA vaccines work in a completely different way than the old vaccines we are used to, and the long-term effects of playing with the RNA are simply not known.

Those who are vaccinated will get milder or no symptoms if they receive the virus. So those people need not to worry if other people are vaccinated or not.

Those who are vaccinated can still transfer the virus to others, so the solidarity argument is not applicable. The logical conclusion of that would be that this vaccine is only for those who fear for their own health – and for the medical businesses who make a lot of money from it.

Number of deaths are WITH covid-19, not FROM covid-19. People who are hospitalized because of a car accident or an overdose and tested positive at the hospital before dying are included in the statistics.

People under 70 years of age and with no major health problems like overweight, diabetes, cardiovascular disease etc. have an extremely low risk of becoming severely ill because of the virus. Furthermore the risk of dying is much below the risk of dying in a car accident, from heart disease or committing suicide.

Also, the WHO changed the defintion of a pandemic in May 2009. Before then there needed to be large amounts of dead and ill people to call it a pandemic. However, the new definition is that there is a new virus which people are not immune to, and not a word about illness and death. That’s why the governments and authorities count people who test positive and base decisions on that. It’s hard to find numbers of how many people are actually suffering severely or dying FROM covid-19. There have been massive lockdowns in certain countries only because of a very small number of positive test results.

What I have written here is only a short summary of relevant facts that contradict the main narrative and deliberately without sources. All this information can be found in ordinary media outlets (not social media crap!), in scientific magazines or at the websites of authorities. However, these facts may not be profusely promoted (for reasons we can only guess) so there is a need to take one’s own responsibility to make independent and broad research.

The risk groups are people over 70 years of age and those under 70 with bad health. For those it’s most probably a wise decision to get the vaccine. For younger and healthy people the vaccine and the virus may pose an equal risk. To vaccinate children and teenagers is completely insane and to demand people to vaccinate has no bearing on facts and is only authoritarian – in fact an assault on the individual bodily integrity.

Quote from CountingOutTime

[...] they are very sick, there's a certain satisfaction in knowing that I pointed them in the right direction. I suppose it was their 'right' to look the other way...

that is disgusting that you feel satisfaction in this case. apart from that we have no proof of anything what you want to tell us here with that propagandistic bullshit. only proof I see is what kind of person you are.

Quote from Murdock

that is disgusting that you feel satisfaction in this case. apart from that we have no proof of anything what you want to tell us here with that propagandistic bullshit. only proof I see is what kind of person you are.

A good person that cares of others!.

Quote from Murdock

that is disgusting that you feel satisfaction in this case. apart from that we have no proof of anything what you want to tell us here with that propagandistic bullshit. only proof I see is what kind of person you are.

I'm sorry you feel this way. My neighbors are my brother and sister in Christ. I love them very much, but they've chosen to believe in conspiracy theories that brought them to where they are today. Very sick with COVID.

Quote from AnythingNow

The vaccines have not been tested as long as is standard when developing vaccines. The testing scheme has been altered in order to be able to use the vaccines earlier.

No one knows what side effects may surface after a few years. Don’t forget those who suffer from narcolepsy because of the H1N1 vaccine.

Narcolepsy is a central nervous system disorder characterized by excessive daytime sleepiness. The vaccine attributable risk of narcolepsy was 1 in 18,400 doses in one review. In another 2018 review by the CDC, no association was found. The mechanism of this possible side effect is unknown, and it's thought the virus itself could be responsible. The development of COVID vaccines has been done at an unprecedented pace. This was obviously a response to a critical need (surely you remember Lombardy, early 2020?), and a testament to the scientists who did the work. There was a sturdy foundation: mRNA based therapeutics have been under investigation for decades. This was not a eureka moment for a small cabal of mindless pharma CEOs with dollar bills running through their veins.

Quote from AnythingNow

Also, the mRNA vaccines work in a completely different way than the old vaccines we are used to, and the long-term effects of playing with the RNA are simply not known.

This is not exactly true. Any vaccine introduces some piece of the pathogen (the piece is an antigen) to provoke an immune response and prime your system to respond quickly if you get infected down the road, lowering greatly the risk of severe illness. The best outcome is to prevent infection altogether. An mRNA vaccine is simply getting your body to do some of the work, with instructions for your cells to make the antigen, leading to the same response. As covid is a respiratory illness, some think that a nasally administered vaccine that stimulates IgA in your mucosal surface might help prevent infection better, but the systemically administered one that stimulates IgG is effective. "Long term effects of playing with RNA" is very bullshitty - you are awash in RNA, making copying mistakes by the gazillion every minute.

Also not sure why the fear of long term side effects from the vaccine, but not the virus. The 1918 flu cause Parkinson's FFS!!

Quote from AnythingNow

Those who are vaccinated will get milder or no symptoms if they receive the virus. So those people need not to worry if other people are vaccinated or not.

Those who are vaccinated can still transfer the virus to others, so the solidarity argument is not applicable. The logical conclusion of that would be that this vaccine is only for those who fear for their own health – and for the medical businesses who make a lot of money from it.

This is all bullshit. Vaccines are not 100%. There'll be breakthrough infections, some will be severe and some will die. And non-covid care will be greatly impacted as was clearly seen in the first and second waves. Cardiac care, cancer screening etc.

Quote from AnythingNow

People under 70 years of age and with no major health problems like overweight, diabetes, cardiovascular disease etc. have an extremely low risk of becoming severely ill because of the virus. Furthermore the risk of dying is much below the risk of dying in a car accident, from heart disease or committing suicide.

Ah, the 'underlying conditions' argument. Do you know many people have hypertension? Also, as I'm sure you're well aware, death is not the only bad outcome. Two months in ICU will not leave your body (or mind) in pretty shape.

I'd like to keep going but I have to work.

Last word re: kids. The are no pediatric ICU beds available in Broward county, FL.

Quote from Murdock

that is disgusting that you feel satisfaction in this case. apart from that we have no proof of anything what you want to tell us here with that propagandistic bullshit. only proof I see is what kind of person you are.

Put your handbag back down, Shirley Shrieky. All he said was that he'd repeatedly told them they'd be better off getting vaccinated. He said he feels some satisfaction having made that suggestion, while hating to learn how ill they now are and acknowledging it was their choice to ignore his and others' advice. The one demonstrating what sort of person they are here is you, with your hysterical overreaction and very poor attempt at self-righteousness.

Just when you thought the Huckleberry Dumbbells couldn’t get any more Huckleberry Dumbbell: Mississippi health officials are dealing with a large number of people who took Invermectin, which is designed to treat cattle, believing it would protect them from Covid.