I love Kate Bush!

  • ^ I've never really understood what the RRHOF actually is, how inductees are decided, etc. Though to be frank, nor have I ever cared. But I just had a glance at the site and these current votes. I think the ratings are unsurprising and make complete sense, unless you expect them to not surprise you and to make sense. If that makes sense.


    What I mean is, as far as I gathered from my quick look, the vote ratings shown there are fan votes which later get added to industry votes or something. Based on that, nothing in those ratings is especially odd except perhaps the mild surprise of Fela Kuti being in the lead. But I'm not in the least surprised to see KB and the NYDs trailing. I don't mean that as a reflection on them, I agree they are both very influential, but I have no idea if that's considered a key factor in these votes or whether the kind of people who vote are all that bothered by 'influence' - judging from the ratings, for the most part they clearly aren't.


    Fan votes usually are pretty stupid anyway. Never rely on fans to make reasoned judgements or rankings about stuff.

    Abandon all reason

  • The current standings with Fela Kuti way out in front don't make much sense.

    Unless you understand that the people who run it all are full-of-themselves, aren't-I-cool types, then it all makes sense. Think the King's New Cloths and you'll see where they are coming from. Kate has been in the running before, and done badly, which makes little sense given her influence and standing in the rock world. If I recall, she was in the running the year the Moodies got in, 2018, and didn't make the top 5, which is the demarcation line.


    The Moodies are a good example of what's wrong with the HoF, overlooked for over 25 years, they only made the voting list after getting the grren light from Stevie Ray Vaughn, who insisted Denny Laine be included in their nomination, despite being in the band less than 2 years.


    As Boredatwork says, the New York Dolls? derivative glam at best, but then T.Rex are in there!

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Unless you understand that the people who run it all are full-of-themselves, aren't-I-cool types, then it all makes sense.

    But I think the point that was being made was that the vote rankings currently shown are fan votes and that you might expect influential acts like Rundgren, KB and NYDs to be ranking higher. Kuti is a very influential iconic figure but I'm still slightly surprised to see fans who put Tina Turner, Foo Fighters and Iron Maiden in the top 4 currently ranking him number 1.

    Abandon all reason

  • But I think the point that was being made was that the vote rankings currently shown are fan votes and that you might expect influential acts like Rundgren, KB and NYDs to be ranking higher. Kuti is a very influential iconic figure but I'm still slightly surprised to see fans who put Tina Turner, Foo Fighters and Iron Maiden in the top 4 currently ranking him number 1.

    But it won't be the same fans. The voting rules are you can vote for up to 5, but you can vote for only 1, and many do this. I would have done this for the Moodies,did also vote for Kate that year, I don't usually bother voting at all, and this year is no exception. There are probably 2 kinds of voter: 1/ Fans of nominees, and 2/ the cool types like Rolling Stone readers, the very epitome of kings-new-clothes voters who put the acts at the top that surprises everyone. Fela is likely getting the votes as much for political reasons as musical ones.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Fela is likely getting the votes as much for political reasons as musical ones.

    I wouldn't necessarily separate the two, especially for a musician who meshed politics into his work the way he did. As I say, not that I know much about the institution but it calls itself a hall of fame so it seems legitimate to me, if such a thing is to exist, that rankings take general reputation, stardom and 'aura' into account as much as music.


    Point taken about the way the voting works but it muddies the waters. I love the notion that Rolling Stone readers are 'cool types', by the way.

    Abandon all reason

  • The rock and roll hall of fame has become less relevant over the years as far as I am concerned. Once they started inducting clear pop and rap while overlooking major rock influential artists it kind of fell into more of a "who can we induct and get ratings" deal than something genuinely about celebrating rock.


    That said, Kate Bush absolutely should be in there, and 20 years ago. She is one of the most talented and creative music minds in rock history, and she paved the way for a lot of female singer/songwriters that have come along since.


    This whole fan vote business is likely a sham anyway. Doubtful it will have much impact with the music industry execs in charge of the "hall of fame."

  • But it won't be the same fans. The voting rules are you can vote for up to 5, but you can vote for only 1, and many do this. I would have done this for the Moodies,did also vote for Kate that year, I don't usually bother voting at all, and this year is no exception. There are probably 2 kinds of voter: 1/ Fans of nominees, and 2/ the cool types like Rolling Stone readers, the very epitome of kings-new-clothes voters who put the acts at the top that surprises everyone. Fela is likely getting the votes as much for political reasons as musical ones.

    Most of the people who comment on the HOF on the Facebook page say tedious things like 'this should be called the pop music HOF' and voice strenous objections to anyone who isn't a two guitar, bass & drums lineup even being considered, let alone inducted. I read RS for years & artists like Fela Kuti never got any coverage at all. But then neither did the Moodies, as you say, or my beloved Dire Straits, or Jethro Tull who still haven't been inducted.


    In any case the winners of the 'fan vote' last year were Dave Matthews & Pat Benatar, from memory, and neither of them were inducted. So I will vote, but it all seems very dubious to me.

  • The rock and roll hall of fame has become less relevant over the years as far as I am concerned. Once they started inducting clear pop and rap while overlooking major rock influential artists it kind of fell into more of a "who can we induct and get ratings" deal than something genuinely about celebrating rock.


    That said, Kate Bush absolutely should be in there, and 20 years ago. She is one of the most talented and creative music minds in rock history, and she paved the way for a lot of female singer/songwriters that have come along since.


    This whole fan vote business is likely a sham anyway. Doubtful it will have much impact with the music industry execs in charge of the "hall of fame."

    Couldn't agree more. But to anyone who feels like doing so, vote anyway. It''ll work eventually. I think it took 28 years, but we got the Moody Blues in eventually.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • I love the notion that Rolling Stone readers are 'cool types', by the way.

    I suspect you & foxfeeder are both right: it’s not that the RRHoF really are ‘cool types’, it’s more that they’re convinced that they are - like the BBC types who book acts for Jools Holland’s Later!

    Fela is likely getting the votes as much for political reasons as musical ones.

    I wondered that too. It’s like Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest albums of all time list, last updated in Sept 2020. Marvin Gaye’s ‘What’s Going On’ might be the best album ever (I don’t know it, so can’t judge), but I’d be more easily convinced if it hadn’t been promoted to #1 after the 2020 summer of BLM activity created a bandwagon that everyone who considered themselves cool or influential felt compelled to jump on! ;)

  • When Marvin Gaye died RS called him an artist with the depth of Michelangelo & Mozart. They have always idolised the man. Give me Stevie Wonder any day.

  • I suspect you & foxfeeder are both right: it’s not that the RRHoF really are ‘cool types’, it’s more that they’re convinced that they are - like the BBC types who book acts for Jools Holland’s Later!

    It's like you read my mind!


    (Quite a short task, granted.)

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • HOL is possibly in my top 3 albums. Love side 2 which i find is achingly beautiful. It has all been said about her creativity and musical writing. ..

    Regarding RS...i recently saw they had marvin gaye as best album of all time...'whats going on 'is a good one, but best ever? 🤔

  • HOL is possibly in my top 3 albums. Love side 2 which i find is achingly beautiful. It has all been said about her creativity and musical writing. ..

    Regarding RS...i recently saw they had marvin gaye as best album of all time...'whats going on 'is a good one, but best ever? 🤔

    Side 2 of HOL is, IMO, her best work ever. Truly inspired.


    What's Going On - I agree, it's a great album (praise indeed as it's not really "my thing") but best ever? No.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life

  • Many who've been inducted have dissed the RRHOF during their acceptance speech, and some didn't show up at all.


    From Vulture.com

    Grateful Dead’s Jerry Garcia (1994)

    Although he never offered a formal comment on his absence, it was reported at the time that Garcia thought the Rock Hall was “stupid” and was opposed to its bigger message about music artistry. The remaining Grateful Dead members disagreed, and showed up to accept the honor — with a Garcia cardboard cutout in tow.


    Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne (2006)

    Ozzy told the Rock Hall to take Black Sabbath “off the list” of potential inductees. “Save the ink. Forget about us. The nomination is meaningless, because it’s not voted on by the fans,” he wrote at the time. “It’s voted on by the supposed elite for the industry and the media, who’ve never bought an album or concert ticket in their lives, so their vote is irrelevant to me. Let’s face it, Black Sabbath has never been media darlings. We’re a people’s band and that suits us just fine.”


    Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses (2012)

    In a long letter addressed to the Rock Hall, Rose declined his induction with Guns N’ Roses and asserted that the honor had zero significance to him. “I strongly request that I not be inducted in absentia and please know that no one is authorized nor may anyone be permitted to accept any induction for me or speak on my behalf,” he wrote, in part.


    Here are some other artists who, for various reasons, didn't show up for their induction


    Roger Waters

    Diana Ross

    Members of Van Halen (only Sammy Hagar and Michael Anthony showed up)

    Van Morrison

    Peter Cetera

    Eric Burdon

    David Bowie

    Peter Gabriel

    Rod Stewart (for both his solo career and with The Faces)

    Joni Mitchell

    Neil Young

    Brian Eno

    Grace Slick

    Bjorn Ulvaeus and Agnetha Faltskog of Abba

    Mark Knopfler

    John Deacon of Queen

    Linda Ronstadt


    You can read about them all here https://www.google.com/amp/s/w…nd-roll-hall-of-fame.html

  • To be fair, John Deacon of Queen hasn't attended anything since the tribute concert, by 2001 he had disappeared totally.

    Ian


    Works with chess - Not with life