SACD Box Set Reissues?, what’s the chances?.

  • Could one of you folks who owns these sacd/dvd boxes remind me what they cost when they came out retail?. I do realise that the price they go for now makes your eyes water!!. I wouldn’t pay the price they ask on the auction site as I’ve never really been into CDs as much as vinyl records, I bought every vinyl record from And then there were three on release or not far from it. Funny how I remember seeing such titles in Woolworths at the time. I really wonder why they haven’t thought about re issuing them again?.

    My 1976-1982 box set cost in the region of sixty notes. Well worth the money.

  • Christian, yes indeed in fact in 2006 when the blue boxset came out, Carol Willis remarked to me how the retailers had marked them up beyond the agreed Recommended Retail Price.


    But thats the UK!


    TGA

    Regarding the BASF tapes that you have of The Lamb mixes, how come these haven't been made available to the band for their mooted upcoming box set? Or, come to that, how come you haven't made them available to the fans on sites such as Traders Den or The Movement?


    I note on your YouTube site that someone asked you why they haven't been made more freely available, and you were quite abrupt in your reply, claiming that "everyone wants something for nothing". A rather churlish atttitude, in light of how much stuff that is available for fans to share freely. You wouldn't happen to be sitting on these tapes, hoping for the band's management to make you an offer would you? In the same way that Tony Maylam refused to release the full version of his film White Rock for use on the 1976 - 1982 box set unless Genesis gave him a ton of money.

  • Thanks to StillCan’tDance and bromleybruce for their encouragement and offer of help. Having a complicated lockdown just now with some health issues with older relatives but once I get time I will have a crack at the downloads. As for the box sets they are really nice to have and sound great and I wonder if there’s any way, as a collective, this forum can make contact with the band’s management and see if an small scale reissue could happen? They don’t seem to like issuing new products or live material but surely making official product available would be to everyone’s benefit? At least they could cost it out?

    count me in for all boxes please if anyone has any possibility of making this happen it would be excellent news.

  • Regarding the BASF tapes that you have of The Lamb mixes, how come these haven't been made available to the band for their mooted upcoming box set? Or, come to that, how come you haven't made them available to the fans on sites such as Traders Den or The Movement?


    I note on your YouTube site that someone asked you why they haven't been made more freely available, and you were quite abrupt in your reply, claiming that "everyone wants something for nothing". A rather churlish attitude, in light of how much stuff that is available for fans to share freely. You wouldn't happen to be sitting on these tapes, hoping for the band's management to make you an offer would you? In the same way that Tony Maylam refused to release the full version of his film White Rock for use on the 1976 - 1982 box set unless Genesis gave him a ton of money.


    Its one BASF tape, handed to us by someone who brought it from a flea market in Blackheath, its path to the flea market for us is unknown but likely to be less than orthodox. For your information non of us at TGA ransom stuff to the band. That tape cost us £120 to have professionally transferred. We cannot upload all of it to Youtube, it would incur a copyright strike and be taken down.


    Anyone is able to create a comparison video and upload those to Youtube, so thats what we did. The reason why we have not created more comparison videos, is that they take a lot of time and research. Remember we all have lives and jobs to be getting on with.


    Same as we cannot offer it to Simon F's site because we imagine the management would come down hard on Simon F. As for Youtube, people who make non of the effort, who don't put the hours in or offer anything to help the website. Seemingly want something for free. Like others who have websites, we work hard, the collection of material we display is either from our own pocket or at the goodwill of others. We do work with elements of the community, because we believe in sharing our intelligence and collection.


    At least this time the missing footage is only missing because it was NEVER filmed in the first place! Yes, difficult to believe but true, but the decision not to film several tracks from these gigs (namely: Dodo/Lurker, the Eleventh Earl Of Mar Medley, Carpet Crawlers and the drum duet) was taken in order to comply with the restrictions on running time for commercial VHS releases at the time.


    Whilst we cannot speak for Tony Maylam, our last correspondence with him did indeed reveal that he has all of the rushes for Glasgow, Stafford and the truck carrying the equipment down the M6. We got the impression money was not the stumbling block from Tony's side.


    We hope that answers your query.


    Kind regards,


    TGA

  • Same as we cannot offer it to Simon F's site because we imagine the management would come down hard on Simon F.

    You could always ask him. The rules on Simon's site stipulate that only officially released material can't be shared. Genesis and their management are fully aware of the site and appear to have no issues with the current content (which includes The Headley Grange tapes, an alternative mix of the Abacab album and the sessions for Selling England By The Pound). So where's the harm in asking him?


    I'm not sure why you would see offering the material you have obtained as being tantamount to "ransom". I mean, it is their intellectual property, right?


    Am I being overly naive here? I thought that, considering the band is now all-but defunct from a creative aspect, anything of archival interest would be hugely beneficial to both the band and its die-hard fans. There are a raft of fans who spend time and energy in preparing recordings to be shared online, many of whom I imagine also have "lives and jobs to be getting on with" (although in a period of national lockdown, you can scrub the latter off your list for most people), whose altruism is a credit to them.

  • I listened to the comparison (highlighted earlier in the thread) of various versions and that Reel to Reel tape certainly is an interesting listen, the bass guitar sounds really up front to my ears and it would be great to listen to it all rather than snippets?. It seems a shame that something as interesting as that isn’t available in full for us all to enjoy!. Just my take on it. I mean how long would it take to copy a reel tape to flac and upload it ?, not that long I would guess.

    I wonder how many other folks have had such things on reel tape over the years and ain’t had a clue what they had and copied over it with the weekly top 20!.

  • I listened to the comparison (highlighted earlier in the thread) of various versions and that Reel to Reel tape certainly is an interesting listen, the bass guitar sounds really up front to my ears and it would be great to listen to it all rather than snippets?. It seems a shame that something as interesting as that isn’t available in full for us all to enjoy!. Just my take on it. I mean how long would it take to copy a reel tape to flac and upload it ?, not that long I would guess.

    I wonder how many other folks have had such things on reel tape over the years and ain’t had a clue what they had and copied over it with the weekly top 20!.

    Yes, Mike's bass is really upfront in the alternative mix and it's a shame that he wasn't more like Chris Squire, which is to say a player with an overt style to match their personality (RIP Mr Squire).


    Around the time that the new mixes came out, I started tinkering with the albums (much to my wife's chagrin because she just likes to hear the songs as they were and not my ham-fisted, indulgent edits which turn a three-and-a-half minute tune into Supper's Ready). I took on the task of The Lamb (audacious or what?) but there's precious little out there to work with. The Headley Grange tapes are not the best quality and neither are the alternative mixes so apart from extending the odd piece here and there, my "version" of The Lamb isn't much different to the original. So my ten-minute edit of Fly On A Windshield will forever be an unfulfilled ambition...

  • I’ve just had the opportunity to watch the dvd section of the 1970-75 Lamb disc, amazing how much Tony Banks seems to not rate the album that highly?, I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it since then?. Most fans would rate it as their best work I would guess?. A great watch. I do hope they one day re issue these boxes, seems to me a no brainer and would be a good seller now the equipment to play it on has decreased in price, I remember SACD was quite a niche product and expensive when it came out, which for the most part it still is with regard to audiophile labels.

    Edited once, last by Wayne ().

  • I’ve just had the opportunity to watch the dvd section of the 1970-75 Lamb disc, amazing how much Tony Banks seems to not rate the album that highly?, I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it since then?. Most fans would rate it as their best work I would guess?. A great watch. I do hope they one day re issue these boxes, seems to me a no brainer and would be a good seller now the equipment to play it on has decreased in price, I remember SACD was quite a niche product and expensive when it came out, which for the most part it still is with regard to audiophile labels.

    Same thing happened with Minidisc; it didn't take on with the public and died a death. Now, the format is only used by professional performers in the entertainment industry and not by Joe Public, for whom it was originally intended.


    As for Tony and The Lamb, I think he gets very attached to how things were at the time and doesn't seem to move on from that. Both he and Peter were the main lyricists in Genesis back then and he begrudged Peter taking on the sole writing for The Lamb. Perhaps that has coloured his view of the concept as a whole, which he sees as flawed and wilfully obscure. Phil, on the other hand, sees the album as a fertile writing time for the band, when every time they sat down to jam, something good came out of it - but then, Phil didn't have a vested interest in being a lyric writer at the time so he wasn't too bothered who wrote the songs.

  • As for Tony and The Lamb, I think he gets very attached to how things were at the time and doesn't seem to move on from that. Both he and Peter were the main lyricists in Genesis back then and he begrudged Peter taking on the sole writing for The Lamb.

    I agree, that’s what I was thinking when I watched it. I do think that the album may not have been lyrically as interesting if you got a few members contributing words for it. I think the scenes that Peter set out with those words are touching on genius as I see it. The fact that he was apparently sat in another room writing those words whilst the others were getting on with the music itself is also amazing. Considering what he was having to go through in his own personal life at that time makes me think it was amazing that he could write anything constructive and imaginative at all. A credit to him that he managed it. Tony Banks though equally has a dominant influence on the album with his keyboard work which I think he can be justifiably proud of, even though he doesn’t seem to look back on the whole experience with much enthusiasm.

    Edited 2 times, last by Wayne ().

  • I’ve just had the opportunity to watch the dvd section of the 1970-75 Lamb disc, amazing how much Tony Banks seems to not rate the album that highly?, I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it since then?. Most fans would rate it as their best work I would guess?. A great watch. I do hope they one day re issue these boxes, seems to me a no brainer and would be a good seller now the equipment to play it on has decreased in price, I remember SACD was quite a niche product and expensive when it came out, which for the most part it still is with regard to audiophile labels.


    Not really Wayne, a Sony Playstation 2 could play SACD's but for the better quality you needed to spend a bit more. At one time we had a Sony DVD/Sacd player that was less than £300. We brought a Denon separate DVD/Sacd player for £180, when we went over to separates. The myth that the SACD players were hugely expensive or the lack of research from the majority of the music buying public killed SACD.


    Nick Davis and I had the same model system in the mid 2000's a Sony Dav S-550 which came with a player, amp and 5 speakers plus the Sub. Peter Gabriel's UP SACD sounded excellent on it.


    Kind regards TGA.

  • I agree, that’s what I was thinking when I watched it. I do think that the album may not have been lyrically as interesting if you got a few members contributing words for it. I think the scenes that Peter set out with those words are touching on genius as I see it. The fact that he was apparently sat in another room writing those words whilst the others were getting on with the music itself is also amazing. Considering what he was having to go through in his own personal life at that time makes me think it was amazing that he could write anything constructive and imaginative at all. A credit to him that he managed it. Tony Banks though equally has a dominant influence on the album with his keyboard work which I think he can be justifiably proud of, even though he doesn’t seem to look back on the whole experience with much enthusiasm.

    The band were going through an awful time, emotionally etc perhaps the Lamb reminds Tony of this more than he would like.


    TGA

  • You could always ask him. The rules on Simon's site stipulate that only officially released material can't be shared. Genesis and their management are fully aware of the site and appear to have no issues with the current content (which includes The Headley Grange tapes, an alternative mix of the Abacab album and the sessions for Selling England By The Pound). So where's the harm in asking him?


    I'm not sure why you would see offering the material you have obtained as being tantamount to "ransom". I mean, it is their intellectual property, right?


    Am I being overly naive here? I thought that, considering the band is now all-but defunct from a creative aspect, anything of archival interest would be hugely beneficial to both the band and its die-hard fans. There are a raft of fans who spend time and energy in preparing recordings to be shared online, many of whom I imagine also have "lives and jobs to be getting on with" (although in a period of national lockdown, you can scrub the latter off your list for most people), whose altruism is a credit to them.

    So aside from trying to get us to share something like the BASF reel, you ignored the other part of the post.


    TGA

  • Does anyone know why these box sets haven’t been re issued?, surely there must be a good demand for them. It would be great if anyone could have a word with those who consider re releasing. I’ve wanted them for years but ain’t wanting to pay £300 for the first box especially!.

  • I think the initial releases were slow movers. I recall a fair amount of discounting at the time of the original releases.


    I hope with the Genesis machine starting back up that they will consider a re-release in some form, even if it's just the individual albums as two-disc stereo/surround deluxe editions.

  • If they were to do any reissues I surely hope it would include material that has been discovered over the last decade since the last boxes were put out. I don't see a need to re release happy the man on 12 different collections. Like other bands do. We already have archive 1&2 and then the 5 boxes let alone the r-kive and turn it in again tour and hits collection. Between the first 2 archive boxes and the 5 sacd boxes we have everything. If anything i wish it was all packaged together better. But to do that, it would take a lot of hair pulling on Peters partAnd he dont have much anymore . You know let there be a lamb live the way it was live lol not some silly overdub of a 50 year old Peter pretending to be a 25 year old Peter lol. That horrible to hear anymore lol.


    And for the love of God you guys why don't you buy the copy rights publishing rights for from genesis to revelation and let us have what u intended. Find a way to get King or jonjo music outa the picture. Or who ever holds the rights now.

  • If the band took one look at the ridiculous prices people are asking for these sets on eBay maybe then they would re issue them?. £500 for 6 SACDs and dvds. People are just demanding to much and after quick profits?. I don’t know if any of Genesis record company ever come on here to gauge feeling or if any members have contact with people who make the release decisions?. Blu-rays Audio and video of all these with the same content would be excellent . I particularly enjoy the re issue interview sections which surely were filmed in HD?.

  • If the band took one look at the ridiculous prices people are asking for these sets on eBay maybe then they would re issue them?. £500 for 6 SACDs and dvds. People are just demanding to much and after quick profits?. I don’t know if any of Genesis record company ever come on here to gauge feeling or if any members have contact with people who make the release decisions?. Blu-rays Audio and video of all these with the same content would be excellent . I particularly enjoy the re issue interview sections which surely were filmed in HD?.

    Well if you go to eBay those are just people selling extra copies and i guess they have the right to ask for what they want for it. I wasn't able to get them when they first came out and bought all 5 in the last 5 years or so. I think the most i paid was over $300 for the Gabriel years. Silly thing is i bought it twice cos the first time was like new and it is. But i finally found one that wasn't open so brand new with stickers and now i got 2 copies lol Some boxes are still available thru Amazon at decent prices.


    My biggest pride and joy was finding Peter Gabriels Boxset of his remastered series. I didn't know their was a Box set for it and it turns out the box set was only for radio stations or Promo use of some sort. Its never been opened. The plastic wrap that it came it was tearing a bit at the seems so i put some tape on it to keep it from spreading more The box is blue/purplish color and just says peter Gabriel on one of the sides.


    The Archive box sets i got from eBay are brand new and i think i paid a little less when they came out but not much. So i guess what I'm saying is they do bump up the price a bit but i don't think they have been too terrible at least the deals i got. Just keep looking is all i can say.


    But to reissue those box sets i think would be silly cos i thought those were limited pressing and inky for the 40th anniversary. Or something to that effect.


    If anything a new upgraded box set would be nice if it includes all the original material along with new. And i don't mean one disc lol. Boxes are not cheep.


    1. New material (full live shows) ect

    2. Packaged better. A full lamb concert like the first archive had. All the videos bsides in their place

    3. Better books. I really don't care what some fan or writer thinks of the band i want the bands own words.
    4. From genesis to revelation. Get the rights boys. Geez. Its your music.

    5. Jeweled cases for extra discs would be nice not a cardboard sleeve. Im sure thats a battle thats been raging for a couple decades now lol.