Does he highly rate any 'modern' rock/pop songwriters? Is he open to the possibility of future musical collaborations?
I think of all his outside activities, I like the stuff he did with John Martyn the best. At the end of the seventies, both men found themselves in the same situation, estranged from their respective wives and hurting like hell. They hung out together, got drunk together, cried together and - yes - probably got stoned together. They also made two beautiful albums at this time. Phil played drums and sang on Martyn's Grace And Danger and produced his next record Glorious Fool. Over the years, they would collaborate sporadically and one of John's last recordings was a cover of Phil's Can't Turn Back The Years. The love these two men had for each other was profound and it can be heard in the music they made together.
Agreed! 'Grace and Danger' is essential listening. This wonderful album is greatly enhanced by Phil's emotive drumming.
I'd love to see 'Get 'Em Out By Friday'.
So, Us and Security.
Passion gets an honourable mention!
Really? Do you have any examples? It's been confirmed by all involved with the project that no alternative vocals were used so I'd be interested to read which vocals you think have been replaced. Regarding instrumentation, I actually hear more stuff going on in the mixes, not less so, again, which parts do you think have been removed?
The new mixes do provide more overall clarity and detail, which make them an interesting alternative to the original mixes. Though unfortunately there are many revisions that do change the character of these records in an unsettling way, such as changes in vocal and instrument engineering, reverb, placement and volume.
Alarmingly, many tracks do have lines which are alternative vocal takes, the most notable examples being:
– “Fang, son of great Fang, the Traitor we seek, The laws of the Brethren say this, That only the King sees the Crown of the Gods, And he, the Usurper must die.”
Get ‘Em Out By Friday
- “Here we are in Harlow New Town. Did you recognize your block across the square, over there. Sadly since last time we spoke. We've found we've had to raise the rent again. Just a bit. Oh no, this I can't believe. Oh Mary, and we agreed to leave.”
- “And it's hey babe your supper's waiting for you. Hey my baby, don't you know our love is true. I've been so far from here, Far from your warm arms. It's good to feel you again, It's been a long long time. Hasn't it?”
- “They're going to change you into a human being!”
Dancing with the Moonlit Knight:
- “It lies with me! cried the queen of maybe . For her merchandise, he traded in his prize.”
- “'Citizens of Hope and Glory, time goes by.”
OneForTheVine has helpfully provided the Colony of Slippermen example for missing instrumentation, though there are others too.
I remember people making huge lists of everything that was "wrong" with the new mixes. When some of them ventured over to the old genesis-music.com forum, I ignored those posts instantly.
I only started listening to the band in 2014, so missed out on the official forum!
If the new stereo mixes had been marketed as ‘alternative mixes’, fans would have viewed them as being complementary to the original mixes and just a different interpretation of the albums. In such a context, you would be right that endless criticism of the new mixes would be boring and pointless.
It was, however, stated by Nick Davis in 2007 that the new stereo mixes would permanently “replace” the original mixes. In my view, this makes the level of revisionism in the new mixes an extremely valid point of discussion.
Hopefully the original mixes will eventually be restored, otherwise we will lose a part of the band’s history. Especially when considering these alterations, which affect the most important Genesis tracks such as ‘Supper’s Ready’.
Very interesting to read everyone’s comments! The 5.1 mixes do lack relevance in such discussions, as it's a very niche format and they are not directly comparable to the different stereo versions.
Here’s my view on the new stereo mixes from the CD/SACD box sets:
For the 1976-1982 and 1983-1998 albums, the new mixes are inferior to the originals. The lack of dynamics and tonal balance give these albums a squashed and bright sonic signature. The vocals and cymbals are particularly harsh sounding.
For the 1970-1975 albums, the extra clarity and detail in the new mixes make them an interesting addition to the previous releases. But are ruined to some extent by errors such as the use of incorrect vocal takes and missing instrument parts.
For all the live albums, the new mixes are superior to the original mixes.
I respect those who disagree, as it comes down to individual taste.
The box set / remixing project was never about the Stereo mixes or the concert / tv era footage of the time, it was always about the Surround mixes and getting them completed and released. The Stereo mixes were contractual through the Record Company.
If only that was the case! Unfortunately Nick Davis said in a 2007 interview on this forum’s parent site, Genesis News, that the new stereo mixes would “replace” the original mixes. My view is that this would be wrong and unnecessary, and am glad others share this view.
Agreed. A true definitive release would be a 2 disc set, the 2007 remix AND the 1994 remaster. For me, the only 2007 that is best is Foxtrot, because the original mix was truly dull in every sense of the word. As for worst version: THe original CD release (Mastered by Sanyo) of Wind..... bad beyond belief!
Future album reissues would ideally contain newly remastered versions of both the new and original mixes, in hi-res via blu-ray, like King Crimson, XTC, Marillion and others have done. There’s no point reissuing the old 1994 remasters now, as these didn’t even cover the albums post-Abacab, and brand new remasters would deliver a much improved sound.
In response to your question about future Genesis rereleases and boxsets, he says he is not in favour because "it looks like we're trying to get more money out of the fans. I don't feel comfortable with it".
I love Tony as a musician, but find his view on this quite frustrating.
People will only buy the rereleases if they want to. Making them available does not mean you’re not forcing anybody to go and buy it. If they think its
worth buying, then they’ll buy it.
Canadian band The Musical Box will go on tour this fall in Europe with a brand new show:
A Genesis Extravaganza 1970-1977
presenting tracks from the albums Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb, A Trick Of The Tail and Wind & Wuthering.
Info about tour dates and tickets can be found here:
I have tickets for this show! Very informative article.
Anyone got any guesses on what tracks are the 1970-1977 "rare stuff and seldomly played songs"? All album tracks? Or are B-sides a possibility?
Foxtrot, Selling England and the Lamb for me.