Posts by danielbravo

Quote from The_Genesis_Archive

The cassettes that Geoff shows Bill Macormick (former official Genesis webmaster). Are not what live albums are made of. Genesis Live, Seconds Out and Three Sides Live along with all official live releases by the band. Come from Multitrack tape reels. These can be played in a professional studio and levels of instruments can be altered to sound right.

The cassettes Geoff has/had have all now been transferred onto Hard drives. These are in stereo and were only for the band to listen to the previous nights performance. Not for live release.

Multitrack recording facilities / Filming back in the 1970's was very very expensive. The band simply could not afford this luxury, and the record company would not always provide the money either.

The notion that Genesis is sitting on mountains of archive material is just pure fantasy. Yes there is stuff in the archives, but not mountains of it.

Any live box set or album or film, still requires a budget from the management / record company in order to start the remastering, preservation work and other stuff required to bring the live box set/album/film to market.

I hope this clarifies things,

TGA

Display More

Thank you. This is something that I have discussed on other occasions (in other forums) and it seems that a considerable group of fans still do not accept. There is that legend of lots of live tapes, "from this bootleg that I have", outtakes and stop counting...

Steven Wilson: Hand Cannot Erase

Steve Hackett: To Watch The Storms

Steve Hackett: Live Archive 70's

Quote from Christian

sorry, I obviously didn't see that "live" bit

You are right. I'll try to find out why.

Ah!

Thanks for the quote, we all miss those details.

It would be nice if you know something share it with everyone around here!

Quote from Chessman

I've been wondering this for ages. I never got the box set as I only really want Genesis Live and Seconds Out. If/when they are released individually, I will certainly be getting them!

Exact! I bought these albums separately in 2009, released in Japan (mini-lp) but it has surprised me that even after a little more than 10 years the only editions available are still those of 1994... if they have already published the entire discography in studio with the new mixes individually why not do the same with the live albums?

Quote from Christian

individual CDs with the new mixes, but without bonus tracks, were also released a year or two after the boxsets.

There have also been Vinyl releases and boxsets. I remember discussions about the poor quality of the vinyl,

Hi! Yes I know that but I'm talking about the "live" albums.

Edit:

Have not been reissued yet: Live, Seconds Out, Three Sides Live, The Way We Walk individually with new mixes separately

The entire studio catalog with the new mixes has been reissued on CD and vinyl, each album separately.

With live albums; after The Live Box, practically nothing has been reissued.

I think, only "Seconds Out" on vinyl.

They are so good that I still wonder: why not reissue them separately?

Why do we still see those old versions from '94 and none of these new mixes?

It's curious...

Edit:

I refer in this thread to the albums "recorded live" with the 2009 mixes offered with the Box Genesis "Live", not released yet separately

Thank you

Camel: Nude

And now Saga: Silent Knight

Genesis

The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (2009 mix)

Quote from Adam K

Hello,

Newbie, here, digging up a topic I'm sure you're all done and dusted with, but I was just ripping my Genesis CDs to FLAC and realised I had a strange mix of 1994 and 2008 issues, and couldn't quite remember why. A search on the subject brought me here, so I had a question: Originally, I think the thing was that I became stuck with the idea that the 2006 remixes, especially ATOTT and WAW, pushed Hackett to the back. I think I read this, somewhere, and was sure I heard it myself, especially in "Ripples", where Hackett's sinuous guitar lines sounded fainter in the remixes than I remembered. I'm more than happy to be disavowed of that. I don't seem to have the remixes for all of them, and didn't even realise that there was one for the 1974 Live album, which is my all-time favourite (sorry, Seconds Out fans).. Are they really worth getting? And how does one know? On Amazon, they invariably list the 1994 editions, or at least the images they show are.

Anyway, the basic questions are -- was there actually any skullduggery in the mixing and are they really worth it?

Thanks,

Display More

Hello, it is a matter of exploring and making your own image on the matter. It's the best way if you haven't listened to these remixes in their entirety.

Currently the Genesis catalog in print is basically these mixes (by default) both on vinyl and cd.

I like them for albums with Gabriel (especially) and live albums (especially for Seconds Out, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk) although not much with "Live" which is your favorite.

With the post 1975 albums things change for my taste, especially because in some of them although I like the new mix, the audio is very compressed and I don't like them as the old Virgin or the DE from 1994.

I still keep all the remixes from Trespass to Abacab, including the live albums.

In my experience, each one has its strengths and weaknesses, but it is good to include them in my collection.

Some are very cheap if you look carefully, particularly used. New ones depends on your wallet, on ebay there is a wide variety of prices if you are looking for them in cd format.

good luck with your trip

A Trick Of A Tail... Genesis

Quote from jaydubya

Yes, I can hear it on my UK issue of DE on the 'con' of 'considered. I think I remember reading something where Nick Davis confirms it too. One of his jobs on the DE series was to go through removing all the clicks and pops and that was one the one that got through. I've got all the other DE's in the series and while I'm aware of the tracking errors I don't recall any other clicks or pops.

Oh, thank you. I can't hear it on my copy.

Quote from Noni

I know this is a Genesis thread, but in general feel this applies too.

My good friend(who sadly passed away RIP) Nedflanders123, once said during the 90's period onwards. CD's were being massively remastered as a gimmick to sell more copies. However, he also praised the superior Japanese versions over the European copies and I agree. Japanese cd's were a lot better in the remastering aspect and sound a lot better.

I would say now, during 2018 onwards, remasters have much improved and it appears artists are now involved in this process for better quality.

It may be so in some particular cases. Although it is known that in those years "some tapes" masters were the same, the japanese engineers made modifications in the equalization during the transfers. It was a common practice until a few years ago. In some cases with remarkable results and other times not so much.

Rarely did the manufacturers have availability or access to the original master set.

There are many interesting comparisons between the various pre-1994 versions available on various sites. And also about how many masters there were rolling around there for those years.

The truth is that many of these Japanese Cds are very good and others are not...

But this is a subject for another nature of forums.

Reading a thread on another forum, someone commented that they heard a noticiable "click" at 17 seconds into the song "Robbery, Assault and Battery" when Phil sings ..."considered" with the Definitive Remastered Edition (1994)

I have this DE Cd manufaturated in the US (ATCO Records 82668-2)

and I don't hear this. I have reviewed it several times and using headphones... the click is not there.

I guess maybe it's a matter of the European editions... has anyone found it on their cd?

I still wonder this, because I imagine that the remaster is the same for all worldwide releases

Steve Hackett:

Darktown

Now with:

Steve Rothery

The Ghosts Of Pripyat

Genesis: Duke

Quote from Backdrifter

It was circulating late 70s/early 80s. My brother had it on cassette at that time, with a photocopied cover of a person in a weird gas mask or something. It ended with Scree as I recall.

While it's a bit frustrating I can see why they doctored it. The vocals weren't great in parts and the lead guitar sounded a bit weedy. Think of how it sounds on the boxset in Supernatural Anaesthetist, which I'm surprised they didn't patch up, and to my memory that's how it sounded all the way through.

On that one, they might of course have actually done something with it and it had been even worse before! Though I think Hackett said he'd specifically redone the Lamia solo, do we know if he did anything else? What's odd is how the HCTSA solo is thin and scratchy but then when the song breaks down the guitar sounds full and majestic in complete contrast.

Well, the band obviously used the original tapes with a professional recording.

Something different from a bootleg obviously, the source is different and the management too.

There is a series of videos on youtube where these recordings are analyzed in detail.

However listening to the bootleg I think will give me an idea of the matter.

Thanks for the quote, really!

Quote from Dr. John

If you go back into this thread (and some other older ones), you will see that the 1994 Definitive Edition Remasters are generally well liked for the albums through to the 80s for the most part. Some people like the 2007 box set remixes, though not everyone. There are occasional discrepancies between the remasters and the remixes - some small parts got lost - which may matter to you.

I have kept both the remasters and remixes in my collection. I like the remasters overall and do listen to them. However the remixes really do open up some albums so that you can hear the parts more distinctly, even without the 5.1 mixes. The Lamb is an example where I can hear the parts more clearly - even Steve, who I find is often buried in the original mix. The additional advantages of the box sets include having all the extra tracks, the interviews, and the 5.1 mixes.

Excellent summary of the matter. I've read a lot about it on other forums and so far, I think one finds that many still like these old 1994 releases (although others not so much...) and the old virgins

For a while I have listened to these old versions and the remixes and I can go from one to the other without problems. Some are nicer than others, some more revealing... but it's good to enjoy the original stereo mixes, even with the limitations that some comment on.