Posts by WinstonWolf

    That might have been more to do with the album being mastered by Bob Ludwig than the actual production. Hugh Padgham had been working with the band since Abacab but - as far as I know - Invisible Touch was the only album which they passed it on to an outside source to do the mastering. Bob Ludwig is something of a legend in the music business.

    Separating the production/mixing from the mastering is probably a little more complicated than making it an either/or situation, but I agree that the problem with Invisible Touch's overall sound probably falls on the mastering to a greater degree.


    I believe the problem of a bass-lite sound has to do with in the early days of compact disc the recording industry often used the same masters made for vinyl for CD, and vinyl needs a mix with less bass because it interferes with groove depth.

    The original CD suffers from the same problem a lot of early CDs did; they're lacking bottom end and the treble sounds harsh and tinny at times. "Thin" is how I'd describe it.


    The 2007 remix makes everything sound a lot more spacious (making it easier to hear a lot of subtle details that were previously squished) but it also removed that digital gloss and increased the bass, making the album sound more balanced.


    I have no insight into how the band operates, but it seems like most of the failures were Tony Smith-level work.


    It should have been expected that promoting the band was going to be a little harder this time around, and while Mike and Tony may not have expected the extent that was true, that's why they have representation to make those kinds of decisions.


    It's been said that Atlantic pulled Calling All Stations' advertising budget to promote Matchbox 20 as a reason for why the album had no promotion but the tour seemed to receive no promotion either. Why is that? If they couldn't find a corporate sponsor why didn't they pay for some promotion themselves?


    I don't dispute they couldn't tour if they didn't sell tickets, but no one is going to buy tickets if they don't know there is a tour or that tickets have gone on sale. I had already been going into my local record shop every week to check on a release date for Archive 1 for the better part of two years so once Calling All Stations was announced I made asking about concert dates part of my routine too.

    But even with checking Ticketmaster weekly I never did find out about any tour dates before I heard the whole tour had been cancelled.


    So again I wonder just how long tickets had been on sale before they pulled the plug? I agree concert sales are usually front-loaded but it seems like they expected rapid sales in spite of the lack of advertising.

    The odd thing about the US tour is it was canceled before I heard tickets had even gone on sale.


    I doubt I was the only one caught off guard by that and I've always wondered just how long tickets had been on sale before they pulled the plug.


    I think the real reason was someone had lost enthusiasm and just didn't want to go ahead with the tour and poor ticket sales was the excuse for it. Just because tickets didn't sell out in a matter of a few hours doesn't mean fans abandoned the band, only the scalpers had.

    I'll echo what several others have already mentioned. Nursery Cryme feels a little too restrained for me at times. From a production standpoint it also sounds a bit too clean and a bit muffled, which sucks a lot of energy out of the whole thing. Phil's drums sound especially terrible on this album.


    It sounds obvious they were working quickly and wanted to get "good" takes on tape, especially since we have the luxury of hearing many great live versions of these songs from subsequent performances. While the "perfect" studio sound suits some of the later albums better (the Lamb especially IMO) I think most of what is on Nursery Cryme feels a little lacking.


    That said, I still think it's a good album, and it is one I've warmed to a lot over the years. I've also found myself appreciating the deeper cuts more. It's possibly due to overexposure with the bigger songs but I think Seven Stones, Harlequin, and even little ol' For Absent Friends help add a lot of texture and variety that keeps the album as a whole interesting.

    I think the surround sound mixes are really good. They don't seem to suffer from the overused compression that the stereo mixes received.


    Sadly, I really don't have the opportunity to listen to the 5.1 mixes nearly as much as I do stereo versions, so my go-tos are a variety of versions.


    The new mixes of the live albums are a significant improvement over the originals and the 1994 remasters.

    The green box albums are generally a marked improvement over previous versions too, though the odd mistake here and there are distracting.

    The red box albums are better than the originals, (especially Invisible Touch and Genesis) though once again the slight changes are distracting.

    Of the blue box albums the only one I prefer over the 1994 remasters is And Then There Were Three. Abacab seems to sound like Abacab no matter which version I hear but the 1994 remasters of Trick, Wind, and Duke are by far my favorite versions of those albums.


    I know a lot of folks were disappointed in the 2007 remixes, but I appreciate what they accomplished even though they aren't perfect. As far as I'm concerned it's nice to be able to choose from several different mixes and masterings in order to put together my own personal "definitive" series of Genesis albums.

    I remember being really pleased in 1992 when they released The Way We Walk and it had the interview stuff front loaded and then the ENTIRE SHOW without cuts or omissions. Obviously digital media has changed our perceptions but at the time I remember being surprised they put almost three hours of material on one video tape.

    the Lyceum recording of Duchess is probably one of the most viewed songs on YouTube for me. Love the atmosphere and the green lighting

    Have already wondered if Phil is actually doing anything with the drum machine or is all pre programmed?...it sounds almost faultless but as a drummer he should know what he is doing!

    There's a steady 16th note pattern that's just running, but all of the other bits that pop in and out are controlled live by Phil. You can see him "playing" the drum machine pretty well in the Lyceum video. It's too bad that Three Sides Live chose during that section to just show load-in and set up and another interview... I'll say one thing about Genesis; they sure gave their road crew the spotlight in their live videos.

    I think the initial releases were slow movers. I recall a fair amount of discounting at the time of the original releases.


    I hope with the Genesis machine starting back up that they will consider a re-release in some form, even if it's just the individual albums as two-disc stereo/surround deluxe editions.

    One of the things that stand out in my memory is a live version of In Too Deep (from the LA Forum maybe) where Mike and Daryl's backing vocals are really high in the mix and it elevated the whole thing for me. Obviously when they mix the official live albums they seem to dial all the backing vocals way down but I don't think they understand how important they are.

    Perhaps someone could list the tracks they do sing harmony on (post Peter). I would be interested to know this.

    Me too. According to liner notes the only post-Peter albums with vocal credits to anyone but Phil were Trick of the Tail, Duke, and Genesis.


    I think the ones on Trick are easier to spot but Duke's production is so thick-sounding and Phil double tracked himself a lot on it too, making it harder to spot who might have done what. I think it must be Tony on Silver Rainbow if for no other reason than Genesis doesn't have very many harmony vocals at all so there can't be that many options.