Posts by Gabble Ratchet

    Except the "hired gun" comment was a reference to Daryl! Lots of bands in the 80's had a synth sound and a good guitarist, nothing prevents them working together. As for Mike criticizing other's songwriting, it seems a bit ironic given his leaning on others to co-write so much M&M stuff.

    Oh, I’d class Steve as a hired gun too, for the reasons stated previously. But he’s a white hatted gunslinger who knows the value of restraint and gets my vote over a black hatted shredder any day.

    As for synths and guitars, of course they’ve always co-existed, but there was a moment in the UK in the 80s when pure synth bands ruled the airwaves. They signalled the future and it was Gary Numan’s bleak synthetic drones that caught Mike’s attention enough to re-focus his songwriting.

    Even when they became more...Let's say accesible, I 've always thought of Genesis as quintessentially British. Perhaps, not as much as when the recorded SEBTP, when they dealt directly with Britishness but still ver British. it wasn't only the lyrics, no matter how much Peter and Phil loved black music, it was always filtered through them being very English. Daryl, although a terrific player is exactly not that. His sound, playing, style, feel, even his chops,, everything about him is profoundly American, as revealed by his delivery of the FoF solo when given a bit room to do his thing. Noting wrong with that of course, I love American music, particularly black music but it's a matter of identity and to me Genesis, at least the Genesis I got on board with really didn't need a jazz-rock fusion American guitarist. Steve had to struggle to get his guitar heard and when he left they decided not to replace him, it speaks volumes on what they thought of the guitarist role in the band. Given the material they released afterwards, I fail to see what substantial contribution he could have made to the band. The same I guess he made to Phil's records which was imo not really relevant. No legendary guitar parts to speak of there. He has been around for decades and I have a lot of respect for him but I have always regarded him as a hired gun and without wanting to belittle him , I think that's what he was.

    Fabrizio’s comments above are both insightful and accurate. The band’s romantic tryst with the synth intensified in the 80s. This was the age of the New Romantics. A foreign skin was now caught in the band’s satin bedspread causing the headboard to rattle with a new-found attachment and, sadly, a lead-guitarist was no longer welcome.

    Mike even confessed that ‘Man of our Times’ was his attempt to sound like Gary Numan, the verses of which certainly capture that rhythmic robotic pulse that Numan made his own.

    Mike, says that Steve’s strength was as a guitarist rather than a songwriter; a point echoed by someone on this forum who said that Steve never could write a decent chorus. All too true in my opinion and in this sense, the description of Steve being a hired gun is an apt one. But in times of peace and synth who needs a hired gun? Genesis certainly felt they didn’t. Steve’s strengths were in swooping and soaring through the music and his contribution would be forever acknowledged like that of an angel with grandiose wings yet whose wings were nevertheless lifted in that posture usually adopted for tombstones.

    “Musicians travel for a living, and almost everywhere I have travelled I have been met with kindness and generosity. Do we really want a white-breaded Brexited flatland? A country that is losing the will to welcome the world?” Peter Gabriel commenting on the Womad visa fiasco

    There seems no end to the various ways brexit is poisoning the UK and reducing it to a soulless, impoverished, embittered, unwelcoming husk.

    The very foreigners they wish to keep are leaving because they are made to feel unwelcome and because they can. The ones they want rid of will just go underground. Meanwhile, however much they beef up the border security, everyone knows there’s an open back door in Northern Ireland. A complete fiasco in every respect.

    There aren't supposed to be gaps. It sounds like there's an issue with your copy, or something.


    Yeah, you're right - it could well be that, given the means by which my recording was.. ahem.. procured. Dumb of me not to realise.

    Now that you know the answer to that split second gap you’ve complained about in numerous posts you need to go out and buy yourself an original copy.

    I’ll lmao if you do! 😂😂😂

    Y'know I'm almost with you in that I recognise that all the best stuff was done in the 70s.


    In some ways I'd even go further because I can't find anything on Duke I love.

    OK, I get it now! Duchess has made your playlist but you don’t love it. Fair enough! I do love it, however. It’s one of those tracks banging on the door of my top 10, along with Mar, Squonk & Stagnation. At a pip I’d go for Mar despite that dreadful ‘daddy’ lyric. It’s got such a powerful build to it and is even now still growing on me. (Sorry, Squonk, you’ve been demoted yet again!)

    I also think you might be underestimating how much I like ‘Duke’ as an album. Whereas you are somewhat apologetic for liking side 1 of ‘Genesis’, I feel no such guilt over ‘Duke’. I’ll admit that it’s an unbalanced album with the collaborative work far surpassing their individual compositions yet, apart from the strong exception I take to Collins as a song writer in general (There’s only so much sickly sweet saccharin I can take. Such a pity Noel Gallagher never got his severed head in his fridge) I would take the album over Trespass anyday. I would acknowledge though, that if we consider their output in the 70s then both these albums which bookend the decade are the weakest* (No doubt, you’ll understand from my earlier post that I’m disregarding the radio-ready piffle that followed as being beyond the pale)

    *excluding ‘The Lamb’ of course, which we both consider to be experimental tripe.

    In line with the above I’m gonna be equally expansive...


    Songs I’m afraid to admit I don’t like:


    Everything, and I mean everything, after ‘Duke’.


    Actually, even on ‘Duke’ there were worrying signs of the direction of travel. The album is flawed by the inclusion of the two Collins’ numbers: a sickly double spoonful of ‘Manilow Magic’ sitting alongside the hidden 'Duke suite'. But however strong the urge is to reach for your tonsils, the latter is the band’s farewell to prog rock and in this sense, ‘Duke’ is the final chapter that came mid-way through the book. From this point on the band would spend their career pulling a ‘Silence of the Lambs’ act, anxiously sewing themselves a pop music suit out of whatever musical scraps they had left.


    First up was ‘Abacab’. A blare of horns announced its arrival in 1981. Yup, horns; as in ‘Earth, Wind and Fire’! Much like a trumpeting fart that is instantly regretted the moment you discover how wet it is, ‘Abacab’ dribbled off the vinyl with that embarrassed look that geriatrics reserve for when they’ve finally lost control of their sphincters. No wonder this material was roundly booed whenever performed in the aftermath of its release; yet the record execs, with a nod to Roger Waters, simply held their noses and whooped: “Welcome to the Machine, boys!” They were well aware that new, younger fans had arrived on the back of the success of ‘Face Value’. The ‘Philly boys’ (as someone on this forum has proudly declared himself) were here: the dumbed down generation with their school leaver exams that awarded them a point for simply spelling their own name correctly. They were willing fodder for easily digestible musical hooks and the band did not disappoint them. Sic biscuitus disintigrat!


    If the band lost control of their bowels with ‘Abacab’, by the time ‘Genesis’ was released, they at least had enough of their marbles left to recognise that their glory days were over.

    “Let us relive our lives in what we tell you,” they croon in ‘Home by the Sea’.

    I’d have happily re-lived the glory days with them if only they’d called it a day and bloody well checked themselves into a home by the sea. But no; they limped on with songs like, ‘Mama.’ But in the naked democracy of the recording studio, who but a half-wit could fail to prefer the symphonic grandeur of early Genesis over that means-tested pauper: a song which may as well be ground out on an organ, accompanied as it is by a monkey with a pantomime laugh.

    (Have the ‘Philly boys’ started trolling me yet? I’m conscious of the fact that this is no ‘prog rock’ forum)


    The descent into amateur dramatics wasn’t to end here, however. How far from the lofty heights of ‘The Cinema Show’ would the band be prepared to fall? The answer is apparently, ‘Illegal Alien’ and that stick-on moustache. With this Chas ‘n’ Dave style novelty song ringing in our ears all we need now is a takeaway curry and a hand-job in a Tesco car park and that’s the great British Friday night out sorted!


    Then comes ‘Invisible Touch’ and we get more of the same. ‘Salmacis’ this most definitely is not, as grammar school Phil is clearly more at home in ham videos monkeying about in a flasher mac. Those old enough to remember ‘Game for a Laugh’, might be forgiven for expecting Jeremy Beadle to suddenly leap out rather than anything remotely connected to Charterhouse. Oh, come back Gabriel, all is forgiven... even your silly psychedelic excess!


    And so to ‘We Can’t Dance’, where the energetic clowning has now given way to an arthritic walk aptly reflected in the music. With Phil’s solo career in full flow, it wouldn’t be long now before he would hobble off into the sunset. Would we finally be spared this long drawn out death? Sadly, no! The band lurches on in the blind hope that if Miss Ellie from ‘Dallas’ can hoodwink the world into believing she’s the same person in 84-85 as she was in the previous 7 series, then Ray Wilson can pull off something similar. He can’t and we’re left to squirm through a final album before finally, finally the band is allowed to rest in peace.


    “Slow build, slower decay," is how Peter Gabriel summarises everything and sadly, this is a mouth of decay containing no gold fillings. Yet, what a legacy nonetheless! A whole decade of superlative music throughout the 70s. Not even the Floyd managed to pull that off!


    RIP Genesis 1970-80. Et in Arcadia ego

    Interesting to see no songs from The Lamb received more than one vote. In fact, I believe I was the only person among the participants who actually selected any songs off that album (I had two of them in my Top 10, early on).

    No, I think Blacksword also cast a vote for the Lamb. But he was the countryman to your townman and split the vote with 'Chamber of 32 Doors'

    THE FINAL CHART

    There were 8 of us in total who cast the full 10 votes and 16 tracks in total that made it through to the combined chart by garnering more than one vote So without further ado, here's the combined chart of our Top 10 Genesis tracks (incorporating all last minute changes)


    Delighted to see that 9 out of 10 of my nominations made it through to this combined chart.

    The overall number 1: The Cinema Show: a true arthouse blockbuster!

    It's like a goddamn power ballad! That subtle dreamy vocal and then the drums smashing into the chorus... actually the chorus line would make the track fit on And Then There Were Three I feel - whatever, surely Alone Tonight must be one of the best songs on Duke? Really? Each to their own... 8o

    I also like it! It's a darned sight better than either of those Collins' numbers

    #1 "Your Own Special Way" (Wind & Wuthering) 1976. GOLD: BEST IN SHOW


    A no doubt highly unexpected one, but allow me to explain. I've been pretty much house-bound recently with a bad back and a sack full of sedatives, anti-inflammatories, proton pump inhibitors etc. Thankfully, I've had the Top 10 Genesis Countdown and a bunch of fellow squonks to take my mind off things. Yet even too much of a good thing can be bad for you: fast cars, booze, wild women and yes; even prog rock. Over the past few weeks, my ears, my brain, my heart and my pulse have all taken a battering from the forensic analysis that I have given these musical novellas that we have explored together. The soaring guitar and synth solos, the dramatic mood swings, the recurring musical motifs have all left me drained and in need of the solace to be found in a simpler musical form. What better then, than a ballad and particularly one delivering such a sweet spoonful of restorative medicine in its chorus.

    Rutherford's first solo song, 'Your Own Special Way', was released during my spotty teenage years when my only source of comfort was Madam Palm and her five daughters as I crooned to this track in my back-bedroom and fantasied about those unattainable sixth form goddesses. But I digress... In typical Genesis fashion, this Rutherford 'sugar-ballad' employs acoustic 12 string arrangements and incorporates an instrumental piece that he had written previously and which he only later decided to insert into the middle as a bridge. It's a sublime, gentle piece of music but arguably more at home on the Trespass album and sits a little awkwardly within this song which has more overtly pop overtones. But what really impresses me about this piece is the chorus and in particular how Rutherford totally reins in Hackett. Flighty guitar solos might be ok when you're full of beans but when you've had a taste of life at age 90, believe you and me, a nice soothing ballad takes some beating. Anyway, by this time Hackett was getting disgruntled and needed putting in his place. Mike's response was to restrict him to the most basic guitar refrain imaginable which he is simply required to bend woozily whenever the title of the song is sung. It was written to make a teenage girl swoon (though sadly never into my arms) and most guys to reach for their tonsils.

    I've been desperate to get off the sedatives that I have been prescribed for ages now. This unadulterated syrup has done it for me. I'm now up and about for the first time in ages. God bless you Mike: you've cured me and in 'Your Own Special Way.'

    Well, I'd distinguish from 'scary', I don't think I was ever scared by it as such. It's hard to explain but I just didn't like them. In a way it was probably even worse when I caught one or two as an adult! It seemed like a load of formless gibbering and silly noises and while normally that would just be dull and/or annoying, in this case it kind of bothered me. I have one theory, probably daft but here goes - there were kids at school I couldn't stand because they were kind of like that. Obviously they didn't look like that! But they sort of acted like that - they just gabbled and acted stupid to the point it seemed there was no reason or normality or a proper person in there at all, so they might just as well be in those stupid costumes. I've met some of them in adulthood too. There are loads of them on twitter as well.


    So I'm thinking that certainly my adult reaction to them might be drawn from that memory!

    I have a similar experience to this. I was a bit young when this show was around (it originally aired from '68-70, so my memories will stem from repeats as I'd only just started school when it finished) but anyone who's seen it will know that the characters career around like dodgems knocking into each and everything in their path. It became a great vehicle for the class thugs who would lark around mimicking the characters in the show and thumping into anyone who got in their way. A bit of a pain really!

    ..and let's not forget 'Eastenders', where absolutely nobody owns a washing machine and everyone, and I mean everyone, barges into anyone else's front room on the slightest whim :D

    I used to love when either ITV or the BBC had difficulties or had extra time on their hands, they used to play a Fred Quimby Cartoon ^^ in between to fill this gap. Loved it!!.... ;)


    Love Bugs Bunny too!!.... :)

    YES!! Id completely forgotten about those timing errors. You're right, they used to stick on a cartoon to fill the gap. What a great bonus that was! ^^

    Really!


    I've never seen Genesis live, I don't know anything about their setlists post-Duke, and I don't follow the UK charts.

    Better to forget everything post 1980 imho. If there's a gold filling in that mouth of decay, I sure can't find it! Even on Duke, there were worrying signs of the direction of travel with those two ghastly solo pieces by Collins. (Thank God, for playlists!)

    They were a great tribute band, weren't they? Next one up is 'The Musical Box', in October. Not to be missed!


    That's some confession!


    Makes me feel better about not being massive on Supper's Ready - though having seen G2 do it live last week I see more in it.

    Around the same time, 'The Carpet Crawlers' are performing 'Selling Foxtrot by the Pound' in Oxford. Let's make a long weekend of it. Just classic Genesis, no piffle!