To be Over - Yes
Posts by Blacksword
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Once around the world - It Bites
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Lost in a lost world - The Moody Blues
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Well, Genesis were hardly bad boys of rock 'n' roll. When Charisma records sent them out on tour with Lindisfarne and VDGG, the band recalled how VDGG occupied the back of the bus, stoned off their tits getting it on with chicks, while Lindisfarne got pissed in the middle and Genesis sat at the front reading and playing chess. Phil said that the Lamb was his 'weed' tour, unlike their contemprories for whom every tour was a 'weed' tour (and eveything else!)
Whe I read about the ongoing edge of insanity that was Hawkwinds career, I'm surprised Dave Brock is still up there in his mid seventies, touring and recording and hanging on to life.
Then there's 'soft rock cocaine enthusiasts, Fleetwood Mac' to quote Alan Partridge....
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Brave New World - Toyah
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Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & the Banshees
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Book of Saturday - King Crimson
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Nights in white satin - Moody Blues
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Gone Hollywood - Supertramp.
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There is absolutely nothing about synth pop that requires rule breaking. Synths are musical instruments, and provided they are played by proper musicians, can stick to, or disregard the rules as required. Don't get me wrong, I like, and liked, a lot of synth pop, Alphaville (who embraced guitars by the second album), A-ha, who did from day one, Soft Cell, whose singer moved on, and Rosemarie Precht aka Cosa Rosa, who again, took guitars on board by album 2, improving her sound immensely. Human League, ABC and Heaven 17 are among those I find tedious, and Human League's producer Martin Rushent came out with that famous comment: "It doesn't make you a better carpenter because you can knock nails in with your hand". It does, of course!
Punk was a different kettle of fish. Most of them didn't know the rules, many didn't even know there WERE rules! I remember the first time I heard "Anarchy in the UK", my thoughts were "Someone doing a Jasper Carrott "Funky Moped" impression over a bad Eddie Cochrane cover. I stick by that!
There's currently a prog chart in the UK. Punk and Synth? Not yet!
Many of the synth pop pioneers came from a punk background and were also influenced by electronic progressive acts from the 70's; Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream etc.. When the Human League and OMD started recording there was nothing else like it, and it was very experimental. Yes, they went on to produce some 'vacuous' hits, but then so did Genesis
The rule breaking came from using entirely electronic instruments (in some cases) to produce pop music. Previously, electonic music had been about creating atmospheres, not songs.
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Literally speechless re the Steve comment. Nonsense.
There was a moment when Punk ruled the airwaves too. Thankfully, both were dead-end moments, and ended quickly, when the public saw how vacuous they were.
I think niether punk or synth pop were vacuous. They had their place like prog rock did, and some good bands came out of those eras IMO. Ok, prog enjoyed a longer golden period, but all three genres are in a similar position now, on the fringes of musical interest but still pulling loyal cult followings. The three forms of music were about breaking rules.
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Ghosts - Japan
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Oh, I’d class Steve as a hired gun too, for the reasons stated previously. But he’s a white hatted gunslinger who knows the value of restraint and gets my vote over a black hatted shredder any day.
As for synths and guitars, of course they’ve always co-existed, but there was a moment in the UK in the 80s when pure synth bands ruled the airwaves. They signalled the future and it was Gary Numan’s bleak synthetic drones that caught Mike’s attention enough to re-focus his songwriting.
Totally agree regardng Hackett. He was chosen because of his sound and style which Banks described as a bit 'Frippy' when they went to his flat to listen to him play for the first time. Hackett was into textures and atmospheres. Steurmer is just into playing the notes; very well, but he could be any profficient guitarist.
Off topic, but I really like Gary Numan. Out of all the synth acts his music could actually be quite guitar heavy at times. His music was closer to rock than pop at times. This is often not acknowledged. He polarised opinion because of his approach (and his apparent rise to fame out of nowehere!) and his use of guitars and acoustic drums, which synth purists like The Human League, Depeche Mode et al thought defeated the point of making electronic music.
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Actually, when I hear Daryl Stuermer playing on Jean Luc Ponty's albums, I often wonder how he didn't get bored touring with Genesis. He definitely had the chops for jazz fusion.
Having said that, I found nothing remarkable about his playing in Genesis - or at least nothing that would make me forget about Steve Hackett.
In fact, those brief moments when Daryl was unleashed, the contrast in his approach did nothing more than reinforce my preference for Steve's way of playing those songs.
I'm sure I've heard Daryl shredding like a metal head in In the Cage. Its all very impressive but doesn't really bring anything to the song IMO.
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I totally agree with the fact that Daryl and Chester helped improving the band's sound and performance live but the studio and their creative process is another thing entirely. I completely and absolutely disagree that Daryl lifted Steve's solos. Their playing is really apples and oranges. Steve's playing and sensibility fit perfectly to the band's aesthetic. Daryl's not at all.
I agree. Daryl is an excellent musician, but he's one of thousands of gifted guitarists with a generic understated soft rock solo sound. He's technically perfect but completely innocuous; could be anyone. Steve was unmistakably Steve, and his style instantly identifiable in the same way that Steve Howe, Eddie Van Halen and Frank Zappa were. Daryl is a session musician, who could tour with a boy band if need be, and who's sound just blends in. These musicians have their place and Daryl's contribution to live Genesis has been good enough, but I've never regarded him as a member of band. I have a little more respect for Chester in this regard, though. Like Bruford, Chester is quite a recognisable, stand out player who's probably bought more to the Genesis live sound over the years than Daryl did.
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Oh, I don't know: Zappa's Mothers of Invention and Weather Report, just to mention a couple every musician would dream of having on their resume. Ask Phil what he would have given to be able to play with WR, they are the reason why Brand X even exists.
I think he also played with the Pointer Sisters..
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Song to the siren - This Mortal Coil
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I think a lot of the "punk killed prog" anti-prog nonsense came from the media rather than actual musicians, who largely tend to be very fair to each other.
I embraced punk but my enduring love from that time is the post-punk new wave stuff and yes, PiL are up there with the Banshees and Magazine. I'm seeing PiL this month at my local club venue, Inverness Ironworks.
I think it was Danny Baker who once said that when working for the Melody Maker (or NME?)in the 70's, the editor instructed the team to put some punk musicians at the top of the readers polls, regardless of how readers had voted, because he was 'sick' of the same people winning best drummer/guitarist polls; the likes of John Bonham, Ritchie Blackmore et al..
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I sense a hole opening up in front of me but my take on prog has always been that it's adventurous, an attempt to do something beyond the accepted norm, a response in part to what was popular in the charts at the time (the time being the late sixties). And it seems to me that the movement (if it can be so called) was inspired directly by the pioneering work of the later albums by The Beatles. I imagine very few of the musicians in prog rock would classify as virtuoso - indeed, the conceit that someone needed to be a master of their craft seemed to be the undoing of prog when so many bands lost favour with the masses when punk came along.
"We were punks, you know," Jon Anderson once said. The quote may inspire hilarity but I can see where he's coming from. When prog rock began, it was as much a response to the current musical climate as punk was.
Yeah, I've always made a similar argument to fans of punk music over the years, met with reluctant acceptance through to "**** off mate, no way!"
Numerous punk icons from John Lydon, Hugh Cornwell and Jaz Coleman expressed a liking for some progressive bands; The likes of Hawkwind, VDGG, Amon Duul, Neu, Soft Machine and even some early Genesis. Phil Collins was said to have been approached by a nervous Rat Scabies from The Damned in an airport, who claimed to be a great admirer of his talents as a drummer.
Punk does have something in common with prog IMO. It was just ironic that the latter was so unceremoniously replaced by the former.
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Yeah, thanks to Gabble Ratchet for this analysis. Interesting stuff!
With regard to Fly on a Windshield, mdepps, I agree. It's a fantastic piece of music which should have been developed more. Tragically too short.
