I think while not exactly a favourite IT is an excellent pop song. Illegal Alien on the other hand.... it's frustrating as I really like the music but married to that terrible lyric and the horrible cod-Mexican accent, it makes me shudder.
Indeed. To my ears it's awful and was at the time.
I must be one of the few who doesn't get along with the first album all that well. It's regarded as such a classic and I've heard others say it was pretty much downhill from there but it doesn't click with me. I did think they were repetitious with their second album which in some ways felt like a re-tread of the debut but it's Poseidon that I actually prefer. I even prefer the artwork - as a kid I was unsettled by that one with the pirate hat.
But I didn't find them repetitious over the ensuing albums and I really like Larks-Starless-Red sequence a lot, that was a great line-up for those albums.
You have to think of ITCOTCK in the context of the time. Nomone else was doing rock music like that in 1969, although some were starting to progress beyond R&R and R&B. KC's debut was arguably the first actual prog rock album, so it's a landmark in that respect. It was, by all accounts an enormous inspiration to Genesis. The follow up In the Wake of Posseidon gets a bad rap from those who adore the debut, and it is more of the same, but I think some of the songs are better. The ttle track is a masterpiece as is Pictues of a City. Some of Lakes best vocal work was with KC, IMO and not ELP.
From the pre Red phase of the band, the only album I can take or leave is Starless & Bible Black. Lizard and Red are probably joint faves.
It's no more boring, lyric-wise, than Zeppelin's Fool In The Rain. If you want to defend the lyrics of OOALH over Misunderstanding, be my guest, but I really can't say that Rabin's lyrics where his strongest contribution to Yes.
I would say, though, that for a song that you consider "utterly forgettable" you seem to remember a lot about it!
In the context of the Genesis catalogue, it's memourable for how forgettable it is! 
Unlike Owner Of A Lonely Heart, of course
There's a lot more going on in OOALH musically. It's far from being the bands greatest achievement of course, but it is a song of contrasts. It has a memourable heavy rock riff, presented with bright pop production and, what was at the time, some classy use of sampling. Most people would know that song. It has catchy hooks and memourable melodies. Misunderstanding is utterly forgettable IMO, with it's dull production, dull piano riff and boring lyrics.
Display MorePhil makes a very good point in his autobiography about pop and Genesis. He states that Mike and Tony wrote songs that they wanted to get on the radio. When Genesis started, pop was not such a bad thing. As Tony says, you could hear Acker Bilk, Burt Bacharach and The Beatles hits in the top ten and you'd have no problem with any of them. Pop was not such a dirty word and being on Top Of The Pops was considered a big achievement back in the day.
It's interesting that the two most successful bands to have come out of progressive rock are Genesis and Pink Floyd, both of whom started out as pop bands. And both of whom, funnily enough, were not happy about being labelled progressive rock. "I saw more substance in our music" says Phil while David Gilmour says (paraphrasing Groucho) "I don't want to belong to a club that will have me as a member". By comparison, look at Yes, a band who positively revel in their prog rock status and have been performing to ever diminishing returns since...well, since I don't know when.
I'm not saying, though, that commercial success is the only defining aspect of a band's worth. I love King Crimson, Frank Zappa and Miles Davis, none of whom could be considered commercial artists.
I think the issue with Genesis and pop is not so much that they made pop songs, it's the subject matter of those songs. Harold The Barrel is a pop song but the lyrical content is considerably more left-field than that of In Too Deep. I Know What I Like is a pop song but, again, it's a million miles away from the content of Follow You Follow Me.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, an artist's work should not be dictated by its fanbase and if a band want to stretch out into other areas of music I think that's a positive move, not a negative one.
I agree in principle, I just don't think Genesis wrote very good pop music after Gabriel left, with the exception of a few songs here and there. There was far better pop music around in the 80's. I think for me, knowing just how talented Genesis were, to hear them reduced to Invisible Touch and Illegal Alien was deeply depressing.
I remember Banks saying that they were always the most excited and enthusiastic about their most recent material, but in later years suggested that Invisible Touch was maybe not their strongest despite being their best selling. Chester Thompson also said he felt the band had ‘lost’ something during that period.
They always seemed to have some hang ups about their older material.
Canterbury defined a group of bands for that area of the UK, and who had a kind of jazz sound; Caravan, Soft Machine et al. I was never a big fan, although I really like the Hatfield & the North debut.
Krautrock was German experimental rock from early Kraftwerk to bands like Neu. I can cope with a bit of that from time to time.
Prog rock subgenres can be confusing, and I'm not a fan of rigid classification, but if you like band of a particular sub genre, it helps to choose others if you know how they are broadly classified. I guess Symphonic prog asmy favourite sub genre
The whole Obscured by Clouds/More period of the band is a little overlooked. Even Atom Heart Mother & Umma Gumma didn't catch my ear until much later on. I guess I'm still fairly lukewarm on those albums. Meddle was the first stand out album after that IMO, beyond that they were consistently brilliant. Animals remains my favourite Floyd album of all time, but DSOTM and WYWH are both masterpieces.
I only got to see them once; on The Divison Bell tour at Earls Court. I remember they opened with Astronomy Domine wich was a surprise. We were in the cheap seats, for wich they even issued binnoculars! Fantastaic show though.
It was a grower for me too. Not sure I'd place it above Signals, but it's good stuff. I remember right from first listening I was struck by the much darker tone and really liked that. I'd never thought about similarities to those bands you mentioned but now you said it, I can see it. Especially early 80s Minds, a period that is for me by far their best work.
GUP is an album I kind of forgot about for some reason yet it has tracks that are among my Rush favourites - Afterimage, Kid Gloves, Between The Wheels. Unlike Genesis, Rush became very good at surprising you at gigs by suddenly dusting off old tracks and at one gig BTW was one of them. I never thought I'd hear that on stage and would've assumed it was in the never-to-be-played-again category to the extent I never even thought about it. Circumstances and Entre Nous were two other examples of that at the last Rush gig I ever saw (2007).
It was a grower for me too. Not sure I'd place it above Signals, but it's good stuff. I remember right from first listening I was struck by the much darker tone and really liked that. I'd never thought about similarities to those bands you mentioned but now you said it, I can see it. Especially early 80s Minds, a period that is for me by far their best work.
GUP is an album I kind of forgot about for some reason yet it has tracks that are among my Rush favourites - Afterimage, Kid Gloves, Between The Wheels. Unlike Genesis, Rush became very good at surprising you at gigs by suddenly dusting off old tracks and at one gig BTW was one of them. I never thought I'd hear that on stage and would've assumed it was in the never-to-be-played-again category to the extent I never even thought about it. Circumstances and Entre Nous were two other examples of that at the last Rush gig I ever saw (2007).
Yeah, I think they played BTW on the R30 tour. I was there at Wembley. It's my favourite track off GUP. It was very powerful live.
Genesis needed to play more old stuff at gigs, post Duke IMO. On the Invisible Touch tour they played at least a section of Suppers Ready on the US tour, but not in the UK, which I thought was odd. I also thought it unfortunate that they didn't include Unquiet Slumbers/In That quiet earth/Afterglow & In The Cage on the live DVD from that tour. They played them at the Wembley stadium shows,
The musical box - Genesis
Lock & key - Rush
Their album 'V' is the best I've heard. I've not heard them all. I saw them once, without Neil Morse and they were very good live. I'm not a huge fan of 'modern' prog, but some of those US bands have made some good music over the years. Echolyn and Glass Hammer have their moments too.
The first vinyl album I actually bought with my own money was 'Architecture & Morality' by OMD in about 1982.
The first album I ever 'acquired' (was given) was Abba's Greatest Hits (can't remember the year) and the first album that was bought for me was Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds.
I think the first CD I ever bought was either Hounds of Love by Kate Bush or The Doors debut album.
Never say die - Black Sabbath
Dance on a Volcano, although Eleventh Earl of Mar aint too far behind that..
There's several I could choose but I'll stick with DOAV as it's the song that got me into the band.
^^^ I find most rock stars - especially singers - a bit full of themselves. It goes with the territory 
^^^ I don't get that either.
The bands have nothing in common. Although I regard RH as prog rock, they don't resemble any of the 'classic era' prog acts at all, with the possible exception of King Crimson, but only in their approach to making music, not their sound or style.
Personally I believe comparisons between Duke and 90125 don't really apply. They are not far apart in time but they belonged to different eras which began with Abacab and 90125 and while Genesis is my favorite band, I agree 90125, purely by the strength of the material but also because of Horn was stronger. Yes have always been lucky with producers, Offord first, Horn later. Genesis struggled in that department, Phil always complained they never sounded as good as they really were on record, up to Abacab. I agree that omitting PDA and Misunderstanding would have made Duke a stronger album. I love the former, it's beautiful, poignant and I happen to know what he sings about but it isn't a Genesis song. It's a very personal, divorce song and it sounds awkward on the album. I also happen to think Genesis weren't probably the right band for that song and I remember Phil saying he had a hard time explaining Tony what he wanted from the piano. Skills weren't obviously the problem. Misunderstanding, well, I am repeating myself but I loathe everything about it: the pedestrian piano riff which sounds like somebody was learning to play the piano which was probably the case, the inane lyrics, the asinine video....Everything.
It just seems strange to me that a band with such enormous musical skill and imaginative song writing capabilities would strip things down so much as they did on Misunderstanding. It's totally insipid.
Yes in the 80's could have fallen flat on its face, but they got reasonably lucky with Drama, despite losing Anderson and Wakemen. I think it's a fairly solid album, certainly better than Tormato, and Big Generator was a reasonable follow up to 90125. I may be in a minority also liking their 1994 album Talk. Throughout the Rabin era, I liked the vocal interplay between him and Anderson. It's good when a band has two singers that work well together, like The Who with Daltry and Townsend, Supertramp with Hodgeson & Davies, Depeche Mode with Gahan & Gore.
Display MoreI'm a fan of all eras of Crimson.
I recall when Discipline came out, I thought, "wow, this is brilliant, this is their best album ever" (to this day, I still rank it No. 1).
And then I started playing it to friends saying, you've got to hear this new album.
Of course, their familiarity with KC was limited to ITCOTCK.
I recall their reaction - one friend told me, "I can't believe you like this."
They just couldn't get past Adrian Belew's voice.
My biggest regret was not seeing them on that tour when I had the opportunity.
None of my friends wanted to go see them, and back then, in my mid teens, the idea of going by myself to a concert was just out of the question.
As it turns out, the one time I did go see them which was in Nov. 2015, I didn't even ask anyone. I went by myself and had a thoroughly enjoyable evening.
In fact I now have a nice memento in that the Live in Toronto release that came out a couple years ago was recorded the night I was there.
I could never understand any objection to Belew's voice. He's a fine singer. Love his work with Zappa too!
I bet those three 80's albums upset a lot of old school KC fans at the time, but equally I bet many of them grew to love them, once they figured out was Fripp was doing.
I have to disagree on both accounts. IMO Duke is simply great and even the first side of Shapes, for my money is better but we can definitely talk about the rest, I agree on that.
The first side of Shapes is excellent, I agree. Mama is my joint favourite Genesis single along with Turn it on Again. The second side sounds like they ran out of ideas, although I do have a soft spot for Silver Rainbow. Illegal Alien is simply embarassing. Duke is a strong album, and a turning point for Genesis, but had it not included Misunderstanding and Please don't ask then it would have trumped 90125 as a complete package. I like every track on 90125. I think Trevor Horn's production certainly helps bring the music alive. I would have liked Genesis to have made an album with him.
