Keep telling yourself that, sweet-chips, and eventually you might convince yourself it's true. But until you can tell the difference between Firth of Fifth, The Return Of The Giant Hogweed and The Musical Box, you'll still be a confused, bitter, pitiful little man.
I can't believe you've responded so aggressively. In your introductory post, you claim to be a Buddhist. What kind of Buddhism do you practice in Liverpool? It's unlike anything I've ever come across in S.E. Asia.
Literally speechless re the Steve comment.
I’m not! As Fabrizio has said, Steve never could write a decent chorus. Mike Rutherford was right. Steve’s strength was as a guitarist not a songwriter.
OK, I get it now! Duchess has made your playlist but you don’t love it. Fair enough! I do love it, however. It’s one of those tracks banging on the door of my top 10, along with Mar, Squonk & Stagnation. At a pip I’d go for Mar despite that dreadful ‘daddy’ lyric. It’s got such a powerful build to it and is even now still growing on me. (Sorry, Squonk, you’ve been demoted yet again!)
I also think you might be underestimating how much I like ‘Duke’ as an album. Whereas you are somewhat apologetic for liking side 1 of ‘Genesis’, I feel no such guilt over ‘Duke’. I’ll admit that it’s an unbalanced album with the collaborative work far surpassing their individual compositions yet, apart from the strong exception I take to Collins as a song writer in general (There’s only so much sickly sweet saccharin I can take. Such a pity Noel Gallagher never got his severed head in his fridge) I would take the album over Trespass anyday. I would acknowledge though, that if we consider their output in the 70s then both these albums which bookend the decade are the weakest* (No doubt, you’ll understand from my earlier post that I’m disregarding the radio-ready piffle that followed as being beyond the pale)
*excluding ‘The Lamb’ of course, which we both consider to be experimental tripe.
...and let’s not forget the other great strength to Duke is Phil’s drumming. It’s rare to come across a song so convincingly transformed by the drum track as ‘Duchess’.
I would like to believe we can go beyond the boundaries of personal taste and particularly with the benefit of hindsight, admit some artist have been relevant for a certain period and then not so much. I might not like Duran Duran but they had their say. I might like Alison Moyet with Yazoo and solo but she stopped being relevant a while ago. Nobody can dispute the legacy of bands like the Police or Talking Heads and if you are into that even George Michael will be regarded as a gifted songwriter, particularly after his death but artists like: The Specials, Madness, Howard Jones, Nik Kershaw, Ultravox are really not in the big league
I agree! There has to be more to it than personal taste. There was a lot of froth in the 80s. Fun but froth. The bands that made an impact are those such as The Smiths. Too many were simply those who got themselves a wacky haircut and jumped on the bandwagon. Anyone still playing Flock of Seagulls? Their natural home is an 80s compilation CD. I doubt their albums ever had much substance.
Yes, I can believe that the Italians would not like Abacab. They have sophisticated musical tastes with opera etc. I think they were the first country to really appreciate Genesis back in the 70s
Make it two. Pisa, Italy, 1982
Display MoreIn line with the above I’m gonna be equally expansive...
Songs I’m afraid to admit I don’t like:
Everything, and I mean everything, after ‘Duke’.
Actually, even on ‘Duke’ there were worrying signs of the direction of travel. The album is flawed by the inclusion of the two Collins’ numbers: a sickly double spoonful of ‘Manilow Magic’ sitting alongside the hidden 'Duke suite'. But however strong the urge is to reach for your tonsils, the latter is the band’s farewell to prog rock and in this sense, ‘Duke’ is the final chapter that came mid-way through the book. From this point on the band would spend their career pulling a ‘Silence of the Lambs’ act, anxiously sewing themselves a pop music suit out of whatever musical scraps they had left.
First up was ‘Abacab’. A blare of horns announced its arrival in 1981. Yup, horns; as in ‘Earth, Wind and Fire’! Much like a trumpeting fart that is instantly regretted the moment you discover how wet it is, ‘Abacab’ dribbled off the vinyl with that embarrassed look that geriatrics reserve for when they’ve finally lost control of their sphincters. No wonder this material was roundly booed whenever performed in the aftermath of its release; yet the record execs, with a nod to Roger Waters, simply held their noses and whooped: “Welcome to the Machine, boys!” They were well aware that new, younger fans had arrived on the back of the success of ‘Face Value’. The ‘Philly boys’ (as someone on this forum has proudly declared himself) were here: the dumbed down generation with their school leaver exams that awarded them a point for simply spelling their own name correctly. They were willing fodder for easily digestible musical hooks and the band did not disappoint them. Sic biscuitus disintigrat!
If the band lost control of their bowels with ‘Abacab’, by the time ‘Genesis’ was released, they at least had enough of their marbles left to recognise that their glory days were over.
“Let us relive our lives in what we tell you,” they croon in ‘Home by the Sea’.
I’d have happily re-lived the glory days with them if only they’d called it a day and bloody well checked themselves into a home by the sea. But no; they limped on with songs like, ‘Mama.’ But in the naked democracy of the recording studio, who but a half-wit could fail to prefer the symphonic grandeur of early Genesis over that means-tested pauper: a song which may as well be ground out on an organ, accompanied as it is by a monkey with a pantomime laugh.
(Have the ‘Philly boys’ started trolling me yet? I’m conscious of the fact that this is no ‘prog rock’ forum)
The descent into amateur dramatics wasn’t to end here, however. How far from the lofty heights of ‘The Cinema Show’ would the band be prepared to fall? The answer is apparently, ‘Illegal Alien’ and that stick-on moustache. With this Chas ‘n’ Dave style novelty song ringing in our ears all we need now is a takeaway curry and a hand-job in a Tesco car park and that’s the great British Friday night out sorted!
Then comes ‘Invisible Touch’ and we get more of the same. ‘Salmacis’ this most definitely is not, as grammar school Phil is clearly more at home in ham videos monkeying about in a flasher mac. Those old enough to remember ‘Game for a Laugh’, might be forgiven for expecting Jeremy Beadle to suddenly leap out rather than anything remotely connected to Charterhouse. Oh, come back Gabriel, all is forgiven... even your silly psychedelic excess!
And so to ‘We Can’t Dance’, where the energetic clowning has now given way to an arthritic walk aptly reflected in the music. With Phil’s solo career in full flow, it wouldn’t be long now before he would hobble off into the sunset. Would we finally be spared this long drawn out death? Sadly, no! The band lurches on in the blind hope that if Miss Ellie from ‘Dallas’ can hoodwink the world into believing she’s the same person in 84-85 as she was in the previous 7 series, then Ray Wilson can pull off something similar. He can’t and we’re left to squirm through a final album before finally, finally the band is allowed to rest in peace.
“Slow build, slower decay," is how Peter Gabriel summarises everything and sadly, this is a mouth of decay containing no gold fillings. Yet, what a legacy nonetheless! A whole decade of superlative music throughout the 70s. Not even the Floyd managed to pull that off!
RIP Genesis 1970-80. Et in Arcadia ego
Ha ha! Yes, I am a ‘Philly boy’ but this is too well written for me to be annoyed. I can understand how frustrating it must have been to see them change into a fully fledged pop outfit.
Is it really true about Abacab and the booing? I can’t believe it.
My number 2 is ‘Turn it on Again’
Nope: the capitalizing part is clear with the streamlined and more straightforward approach in songwriting of Abacab released soon after Face Value
Yes, everything changed after the success of ‘Face Value’. Genesis became Phil’s band. Hurrah!!
And maybe I need to give WCD another airing because people keep mentioning tracks from it and when I hear them they sound good.
Yes, you must try it again! You will love it! Let’s be Philly boys together!
Don’t you want me baby - The Human League
Africa - Toto
No one remembers this. At least when losing the final the losing team gets a mention in the history books
Man of our times - Genesis
Totally! Mama is a runner and rider with me bouncíng around with a couple of others just outside the top ten. Some say Genesis were "descending into pop" about now but Mama is as original and imaginative a song as you could imagine ever hitting the charts. Collins claims he ripped the spooky laugh from Grandmaster Flash but he's doing himself a disservice - it's a different sound completely.
Yeah, I agree with you. We are Philly boys together! The pop era with Phil Collins is the best one but Mama is number 1 Song not number 5.
Fat bottomed girls - Queen
I’m not that keen on Mama which is amazing as I’m a ‘Philly boy’ - one of those fans who discovered Genesis via Phil Collins
Watcher of the Skies is the best! It’s just so powerful as an opener. I wish I’d been around to see this live in Gabriel’s day
ABBA / Waterloo
Chicago do nothing for me, much like most of your posts, where hyperbole would be preferable to contrived disagreement and confrontation.
Be careful Foxfeeder, StillCan’tDance is a troll. He will attack you personally. He has done it to others.
What a great band!
