Posts by Thelawnmower

It’s pretty much perfect, agreed the production could be clearer and the silly noises at the end do nothing for me but it’s timeless and sounds simple even though there is a lot going on. I think in more recent times, in answer to Backdrifter’s question, Peter has suggested that it’s more subconsciously about leaving Genesis than a deliberate theme. But it’s uplifting music and lyrics about being freed to pursue your own destiny make it a winner and impossible for him to drop from a tour list, even if he wanted to. I used to think his live sound was a little too stripped back - it isn’t now - and Solsbury Hill suffered a little from that and I don’t think any live version captures the slight sense of yearning in the original, but that is replaced by an exuberant joy which connects with large audiences each night.

This was the era when I got into Genesis and all the solo stuff. It was odd, just as I was hearing how they all used to sound, they really changed. But as Backdrifter said, this is what makes them so good and also gave them their longevity. I don’t think there is another band/family of musicians that could have given me so much rewarding listening over such a period of time and over so many varied albums and styles. Inevitably some will sound and then age better than others and then even go on to gain a little veneer of antiquity which adds to them. FGTR sounds good to me precisely because it’s the hesitant beginning of a very long journey by a naive bunch of earnest and talented youngsters. I need to listen again to 1984 but the bits I know well have the Philips hallmark of being interesting, explorative and good to listen to, mainly because it’s what he wants to do at that time and that may not be like anything else he’s done. In general (I know this one is instrumental) his voice is weak, some instrumentation irritates me (eg much of the artificial percussion on Slowdance) but there is always more to keep me coming back. I’ve always felt I’d have preferred it not to be called 1984, but I’ll think about that when I have another listen this week.

There’s a bit of a Genesis and Phil fest on BBC Four this evening. Nothing new but may be of interest

Nice song, well arranged and produced and reminded me of Gabriel in many ways. The percussion is reminiscent of something, I think it’s similar to a little riff Phil and Chester used as part of one of their drum duets slowed down a little. A reminder of just what a good voice he had.

Coincidentally I had a couple of gaps in my Phillips collection that I’ve just filled and I listen to him a lot. I haven’t listened to this one in a long while, I’ve been turning towards the first TV three albums and Tarka for some reason so I will give this a spin next

I can’t add much to the very eloquently expressed praise for this track. Everyone is playing at the top of their game here and considering that it was by all accounts a difficult time they sound very together as a band. Maybe their frustrations around the state of Genesis at the time fuelled the fire in this glorious few minutes. Everyone has correctly pointed out the merits of all the players here, so I’ll just add a word about one of my favourite bits of Collins’ playing when he strikes that off beat drum three times (2.16 on the above clip) for no apparent reason - except he knows exactly what he’s doing and why it’s there, just to throw a little extra edge into the mix and to set up Hackett leading the charge into the final phase of this absolute gem.

And the real drums may as well be by the time they’ve been through the system.

It’s such a shame because there are a lot of good ideas that need a bit of room to breathe sometimes

He’s a superb drummer. Steve has great drummers on tour with him but it would be interesting to see Nic with him. Also if he were to play on one of his studio albums it might get us away from the very samey drum sound Steve employs these days

I agree with both of the above in terms of Steve’s excellence on those tracks and others. If it’s any comfort to Backdrifter- Nad has got a lot stronger in terms of vocals as the tours have progressed. His flamboyance is kept in check in the sense that Steve is very much centre stage and I have really enjoyed Nad’s performance on the last few tours- having felt he was a little bit the weak link at the start. As for the mission creep of the guitar- apart from the end of Supper’s Ready, which I’ve enjoyed, I haven’t noticed it on any other songs. If anything it’s the sax/clarinet/flute parts that have been expanded. I would expect a prolonged Waiting Room jam to mop this up but I think Steve’s class will shine through in restraining himself on other songs.

Good to hear. I’m glad he’s not playing the whole thing and wouldn’t expect him to, but good that he’s celebrating the album even though he’s not prominent in much of it and felt he didn’t contribute as much as he wanted to at the time. It does contain some of his best work with Genesis and very typical Hackett sounds such as Carpet Crawlers and The Lamia. Just hope he does a little more solo stuff as well.

If they are easy to get I’ll probably get Selling England on vinyl as it’s my favourite and see how much my ears and turntable can get out of them. I would have bought Foxtrot next but I’m not going to get up to change over half way through Supper’s Ready, so maybe Trick if I buy a second one. Might look at the CD for Foxtrot and some of the others.

In the interest of returning to the subject of Squonk, as I was one of the ones who hijacked it, I've spent afternoon listening to some different versions.

The studio on the def remasters CD - Really well balanced, lower register of Phil's voice sounds rich, every cymbal is clear as well. Maybe lacking a little bass?

The studio on the Box set CD Sounds louder on same volume as Def masters. Vocals have a beefier sound, bass slightly more pronounced. Drums more to the front. Cymbals slightly more trebly. Guitar comes through a little more on 'mirror mirror'

The studio on the Box set 5:1 _ immense sound, my favourite of the CDs (Played on 5:1 system) Every instrument can be heard and the vocals very clear.

Studio - Vinyl heavyweight - sounds similar to the def remasters in terms of dynamics, each instrument is clear and well-balanced - I'd prefer more bass. Hi-Hat more noticeable

Live on Seconds out Def remasters nice 'soft sound' very polished, better than I remembered. Great vocals.

Live on SO from Live Box set More beef on the bass and pedals and a slightly crisper drum sound. Overall a better mix to my ears

Live on Live Box set 5:1 Monster sound in terms of bass and pedals, guitar sounds a little low, vocals not as pronounced as other versions

Live on Seconds Out Vinyl remaster - Sounds great, a little more echo maybe on the vocals

Live on the "Getting in Tune" Bootleg - very up front sound and a lot of bass and pedal and guitar, which sounds good (This is one of only a handful bootlegs I've ever bought so I'm not sure what to expect from sound, but this is better than I expected)

Of course none of this means anything, just my preferences. i don't have a clue about studio techniques, compression etc. My ears turned 61 last week so who knows what I'm hearing? I'd say they all sound great, the studio versions have slight variations of bass and guitar and I prefer a slightlier bass-heavier sound if I can get it (I know I can turn the bass up but I try to leave all controls in the middle.) For live versions, I remember really enjoying the Duke tour version. I like the Bruford version, but following Backdrifter's Law of Squonk I have to mention Bonzo - and the most Bonzo-like version is probably Chester's drumming, which isn't very Bonzo either. But the 5:1s suit this track well, live and studio.

It's been a good reminder of what a good track this is and how it served the band so well as a launchpad after Peter left, both in the studio and live and how long it lasted in the live set. I would have loved to see what Bonzo would have done with it actually. I think Phil is the better drummer, but a really heavy drum sound would work well, and that is testament to the quality of the song.

Top marks. Pretty much perfect single. Did exactly what he set out to do. Groundbreaking video. Fantastic live.

Quote from Schrottrocker

Since both my dad and my brother are audiophiles, I have an audiophile stereo in my apartment. I am unable to explain all the technical backgrounds but I listen to CDs as well as vinyl and by direct comparison my experience has been old LPs from the 70's mostly sound way inferior to digitally remastered CDs. Those old LPs usually have a muddy sound, the CDs reveal a lot more details and have more dynamics. However, with LPs from the 90s it is the other way round, those newer LPs totally beat CDs: unbelievably bright, transparent and clear. CDs don't get close to them. It's still just a rule of thumb, there's humongous differences between LPs even from the same era. The original Seconds Out LP sounds remarkably great even though it is from the 70's. CDs don't have such vast differences, they usually sound good enough and it's hard to find any with real crappy sound.

That "analogue warmth" thing is a myth imho. It might come from crappy vinyl players and crappy stereos with a lot of saturation and distortion, noise, hissing and humming.

I suppose most of the vinyl I listen to is old stuff - Beatles, Genesis and related and Moody Blues, almost all of which I have re-bought as heavyweight remasters.

If I go back to my original thin

79s stuff I may well agree with you.

I agree that the warm/cold distinction between Digital and Vinyl is clumsy and silly. But I do like vinyl and it’s my preferred medium when I’m at home. Obviously digital is best for on the move etc. It was once explained to me in a HiFi shop that the difference is to do with the physical nature of stylus in groove meaning the sound hits you in twinkles rather than simultaneously, as it does from digital sources. Whether this is detectable by my ears or whether I’m imagining things I don’t know but it does sound different to me when I compare albums and cds of things I’ve known for forty to fifty years, as with a lot of Genesis stuff. I don’t think it’s better, I just prefer vinyl and I don’t seem to get crackles with my current set up and heavyweight vinyls. Some of it, as Thewatcher says, is the whole experience of the size of the sleeve, the conscious effort of putting the thing on the turntable and sitting down to listen etc. Certainly you can’t beat digital for convenience and if you can only have one that’s the way to go. I’ve spent about £250-£350 on each bit of my WiFi and each component has lasted me decades. I’m lucky enough to have a turntable, CD deck and wi fi enabled tuner so best of most worlds but it’s probably the turntable that gets most use. Significantly that’s since I retired, before then it was mainly digital. In terms of Squonk- which I think is a great track, whichever I play it on its excellent but maybe too smooth. This is especially true of Seconds Out, apart from the half speed vinyl, where there is more bass and guitar. But I suspect this is due to how they sounded live at that stage as much as anything else and it’s another good reason to see Steve’s current band do some of this stuff. He doesn’t have the punch of 80s live Genesis but the material is from my favourite era and in terms of sound, it’s better than SO, although you can obviously debate arrangements and merits of individual musicians etc.

Agreed. Seconds Out was a missed opportunity. Great setlist but missing the sound of Genesis Live. This is partially corrected in the half speed vinyl reissue but that’s not available to everyone. Squonk in particular has already been smoothed over on the album from its original Zep template and then is further downplayed by the sound on SO

I’ll have to wait until I finish my travels to do this one justice. In the meantime I agree with Sredni about those ‘mid-period’ albums. Guitar Noir is very much an overlooked gem

Very good indeed. I think I read somewhere this may have had a working title of Bonzo from its drumming inspiration. I think somewhere in the mix it got a little softer but you can still see what they mean. Sometimes feels a verse too long to me but there was a story to be told. Must have been a great reassurance at the time to know the vocals were in safe hands. Always liked the end bit, a lot of bands would have made a whole song out of that!

I really liked Fortrose when we visited. Pitlochry is also very nice, Couple of good bookshops there- One in the old station and one up the high street. If we get to

Cromarty this time, and I’m sure we will, we’ll look that up. I will also try to watch this film as it’s always good to see Peter talk, he’s very thoughtful and engaging on any topic.

This is very interesting to watch. I like the way he simplifies some of the motifs from Cinema Show as he’s the sole drummer. But he also has a lot of the power of his dad and some really nice little flourishes with the snare that I can imagine Phil playing. Great drumming.