Live and Seconds Out, no contest - I grew up with 'em, and they still pack a punch/an atmosphere I haven't found anywhere else.
And Rainbow in third, of course.
I listened to TSL when it was released, and it was pleasant enough, but it never really registered, apart from one track - and I might be confusing that with something else: wasn't there a version of Firth of Fifth on that album? I seem to remember a rather divisive guitar solo by Daryl. Am I thinking of another album?
Fanboys will be fanboys, I suppose 
Of course - because YOUR opinions are what matter.
To you.
I still get notifications from this thread, and as I was listening to The Lamb yesterday, I thought I'd come see what was being said on this fanboi forum 
Hi Watcher. To put is simply and bluntly, those are 2 different bands to me. Having said that, there are songs here and there that I like in their '80s material but it tends to be 1-2 songs per record as opposed to entire '70s albums. There's just no comparison to me. When I listen to IT, I hear a soundtrack to Miami Vice; that cheesy synth pop/electronic drum stuff that was all over the airwaves at that time. We can be diametrically opposed in our viewpoints, that's fine, but I did want to candidly answer your question.
Same here. AFAIC, there was Genesis, a band that put out a string of albums in the Seventies that are just works of art to me - epoch-making, unsurpassable, unbelievably rich musically and in their world-making, to coin a phrase (Trespass through Seconds out, more or less).
And then there was/is the current trio, who after losing all forward-looking members chose to explore vastly different territories - poppy, drenched in keyboards and cloying melodies, and devoid of any real relevance in the plastic MTV world.
Yes, I made it a point to specify I was generalizing, I'm sure some older fans would like a last dance, I believe however, it's predominantly newer fans. I don't know whether Phil current vocal limitations were a factor in deciding the setlist. Older material is sometimes not necessarily more demanding vocally than stuff like Mama and from what I heard, keys have been dropped generously, the same could have been done for older songs. Who knows, perhaps there was no appetite within the band for older stuff and ultimately it's not only about what Phil can but also what he wants to sing.
It's been like that for decades now, wouldn't you say?
And why not? It was such a long time ago...
As a very old 'fan' (got into the band circa 1975), I know I haven't felt like attending a 'Genesis' gig for... well, the aforementioned decades.
Obviously they evolved and progressed. Blatantly obviously, of course they did. It's just a certain type of fan who happen to not like where they went and therefore fold their arms and say it wasn't progress. Anyone with a properly functioning set of ears could see they were applying the same musical skill and integrity, but applying it differently than before, now developed and honed. If you don't like the results, fair enough but it's daft and maybe even a bit solipsistic to claim it wasn't progress or evolution just because it's not to your taste.
Hey Backdrifter - long time no bicker 
I'd say they applied their finely honed musical skills to the post-prog albums, certainly. Integrity... best not to go there.
Re. progress/evolution: seeing one of the best progressive rock bands ever turn into a pop band was a truly painful thing when it happened. Not many would have called that progress
Now, checking back in on this thread I'm glad I missed out on the live discussion. It looks ugly, with the source of all the ugliness being senor Lazlor. Not a wind up merchant at all, as someone suggested, and not provocative either since the presented argument is a blank wall shutting down discussion on the basis that only one opinion has any merit.
All opinions have merit.
At least inasmuch as they warrant critical assessment - and yer welcome to finding ugliness where it suits ya
Understand me well: I am not saying the rest of the discography doesn't have its moments. I do find merit in a number of tunes on those later albums, but they undoubtedly are on another, so much lower level as compared to what made Genesis so precious in the first place.
Again, supposing the band won't just be forgotten with all the rest of the Sixties/Seventies+ rock by new generations more interested in/directed to bland soundtracks (hey, there's a thought!) to their increasingly virtual lives, there is one period and one period only for which Genesis will be remembered as one of the premier prog bands ever, and that goes from Trespass to The Lamb, with an honourable mention to TotT and W&W, which more than hint to the er... humdrum future of the trio's music.
Now, if your idea of a discussion is a neverending list of indiscriminate stuff on a dying forum, then have at it
Orbit, a Neil Larsen solo album with Robben Ford on guitar :
Again, I have to disagree with yet another harsh dismissal of After the Ordeal. But yes I know loads of fans dislike it so anyway, there it is.
Personally I think SEBTP is far superior to Foxtrot and much more consistent, with Battle being the only weak point for me.
Somehow, I don't feel those two albums belong in the same world. Foxtrot is more dystopian, while SEBTP might be a Lewis Carroll soundtrack. But I love 'em with a passion, including Battle, even though I'd really like to find a vocals-free version of it (same goes for the whole of the Lamb album).
Seriously, guys – yes, The Battle of Epping Forest is packed to the brim with sarcastic words and gorgeous LesPaul/synth lines - so what? Are you gonna tell me that after all this time, you haven't found your way through its wonderful sonic thickets?
I know some of you feel I've been trolling (can't help it – I'm French 
), but really: is it so difficult to realise that the first few albums were game-changing – exceptional works in all respects, while the later output still lags far behind Nik Kershaw's concurrent output (which I happen to love)?
While we seem to share the same taste regarding the excess of saccharine, I have a hard time comparing MfM with stuff they did later. I don't think they wrote it, recorded it and released it under the illusion and with the intention that it would become a big hit, like they did with , say, Into deep or Hold on my heart which proved them right and Never a time which proved them wrong. All of them quite horrendous BTW. It's just a little, harmless thing they wrote I guess, without second thoughts, just for fun.
I'm probably being er... retroactively unfair.
The song's quite nice, and the chorus's melody is even better. I guess what I object to is the fact that it's just that: a song – that over-milked beast that everybody and their dog have been suckling on for the last 3000 years.
Let's be clear about one thing: I'm never saying that the Remnant's music is actually quite bad – okay, it often is, but the point lies elsewhere: the more or less natural process through which they ended up ruling MTV (remember it?) was one of devolution inasmuch as what was for all INTENSIVE (LOL) purposes an EXTRAORDINARY band finally turned into a purveyor of perfectly average pop tunes.
That's fine with me. Can't (and shouldn't) please everyone.
Fine, let's continue here.
The Farmer: I do like Fading Lights, and the We Can't Dance album. But they're just not on the same plane as the classics.
PG and SH leaving the band... That was so long ago that I don't even quite remember how I reacted on hearing the news. Not with shock, though, I'm pretty sure of that: I was into a lot of other bands as well.
What I do resent, however, is Banks, Rutherford and Collins sh*tting all over their legacy by not having Gabriel (who probably can't be arsed anyway) and Hackett (who'd probably say yes and who never stopped playing the stuff that matters) on board for this last go round the live circuit.
You assume I've been both coolly winding you guys up and jumping up and down with frustration—can't have both
I'm doing neither of those things. I'm just a proghead (hate that term) with a long (and cool, if uncool) view of things. Never thought I'd push so many buttons with such a few posts. Have to say I assumed that so late in the game most people here would have come to realise where the abovemention lad... er legacy lies.
Rebut away!
Just don't immediately fall into victim mode ("I'm dealing with a arrogant, pompous ass").
No offended... to the point of resorting to personal attacks... again.
I'm sorry that I derailed this thread. I do resent hearing about a new tour by an incarnation of the band that has lost absolutely everything that made me cherish it in the first place, but there has to be a better place to hold the current discussion.
Can a moderator split the thread so that we can continue without spoiling it for those who'd rather talk about this latest reunion? Is it even possible on this board?
Thanks in any case.
That isn't name-calling: way too general for that.
Sorry that I offended your sensibilities, but one has to step out of the woolly consensus once in a while
—especially on a thread such as this.
Now, now, you kind of did, ATM machines were mentioned, if you are going to be inflammatory then just be it till the end.
Well, to me 'selling out' implies a conscious move to please a mass market, which we can probably all agree isn't the case here.
I did say they had to make a living, and also that I don't hold it against them. After all, you can only be a starving artist for so long.
As we know, the process that led to the big hits was gradual, and they probably just stuck to a path that brought well-deserved rewards.
More power to them.
Doesn't mean I have to be blind to the fact that the music suff... er changed beyond recognition
—hence my tendency to see the three-man Genesis as a different band.
I absolutely love that when you quoted me, it italicized the face palm emoji, somehow reminding me of Pornography by the Cure!
OT: Lazlor I find your take on Genesis singularly depressing and one dimensional. I became a fan in 1991 and absolutely love Feeding The Fire and Calling All Stations. In your head this is blind love from an indiscriminating fan
Hell yeah. And why not? I don't mind a bit of cheese myself, from time to time.
But again, it's never a bad idea to get a little perspective—and those songs are definitely not what Genesis is all about or will be remembered for (if at all)
Kudos for thinking there are potential fans out there, though—minus a few points for thinking they mightn't listen with their ears.
Look, love for any given band can be a great thing, but you can't let it blind you to the reality, in this case, of a great original rock band devolving into purveyors of nondescript pap.
Also, if you can't take a strongly divergent opinion without resorting to name-calling, you probably need to take a step back and go for a walk or something
Hugs & kisses from the toobox
You're right - I should have said it was a gradual process—and I'd never say they sold out: the last three members were quite entitled to follow their er... whims
Of course we're not, as you well know. It's the same band, however unpalatable that is to your delicate, skewed sensibilities.
A very dogmatic, fanboyish view.
He's just flashing his arse at you, thinking he's being impishly clever but seemingly not realising he's just making himself look pathetic.
Now you're being vulgar.
Fabrizio, I'm not trolling.
I'm not saying the three-man band only put out rubbish (should have been more specific yesterday) - only that none of their output stands up to the classic albums.
It's a rather banal view that can only incense besotted fans of a band that was a shadow of its former self long before they called it a day.
