Posts by Lazlor

    Thing is, the need to make a living is a (the only) redeeming feature AFAIC - wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise, and probably shouldn't have.

    You do realize that saying HBTS is your favourite Genesis song is akin to claiming that Shakespeare's last letter to his landlord has to be his finest work, dontcha? ;)

    Do you think Wot Gorilla is better than Home By The Sea?

    Honest question, I'm not looking to be judgemental.

    Please be judgmental - otherwise we're all gonna get back to sleep ;)

    And yes, Wot Gorilla by a country mile. It has er... b*lls, imagination, and it doesn't outstay its welcome, while Home By The Sea is the apotheosis of the snooze fest hinted at by One For the Vine.

    Everything being equal to everything else?

    'The band would cringe' - which band exactly? ;)

    Forget any purported 'intellectual calisthenics': the truth of the matter is we had THE 'prog' band, a band that pretty much defined an era thanks to its honest approach to making both ambitious and accessible musicone that opened 'lontananze d'azzurro' (Franco Battiato reference) to countless disenfranchised children of the Seventies, at a time when what you might call art mattered, a time before absolutely everything became ruled by accountants and fashion designers.

    Then that band turned into something else entirely, which I will refrain from defining for fear of sounding like 'a smart person with refined tastes' ;)

    OK, I'm not one for reining in (much) my (refined) views: one of those bands made art, the other made money - simple as that.

    I'm not entirely sure this is what Lazlor was saying, though I'm sure he/she will confirm or otherwise. But regardless, I really like how you express this as it certainly does nicely rebut a certain kind of old prog-head attitude I see and hear often. As you said, it's one thing to say "Wind & Wuthering was the last proper album they did" when that means "I don't like anything they did after Hackett left" which, although it's not a view I share, I think is fair enough. But when it comes with this much more dogmatic assertion that everything post-Hackett or post-Duke is definitively rubbish because it isn't Cinema Show or Vine and it earned them hit singles and huge audiences, that's what I have a problem with.

    It's on the same part of the spectrum as another gripe I've heard before, that when they packed out stadiums and mega-arenas on the IT tour it mainly wasn't "proper" Genesis fans, and only "true" fans would appreciate the old songs in the set. Now that really is arrogant codswallop.

    There are no 'old prog-heads' as opposed to new ones.

    Only progheads (for lack of a better word) on the one hand, and blind love from indiscriminating fans on the other hand.

    Which is OK, again - happiness lies in lack of perspective ;)


    Are you sure? The manner and frequency with which you mention their latter-career earnings suggests you do have some kind of problem with it.

    What are the 'blind spots' you refer to?

    It's a problem only from a musical/artistic point of view.

    Regarding the 'muse' thing: you guys might reread what I wrote, 'cos it infers nothing pretentious at all ;)

    The short answer: seeing Duke ranking above Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot in this poll is proof that there are many more Patrick Batemans than music lovers around us (how's that for a planet-wide blind spot?).

    But then we always knew that, didn't we? ;)

    (Key to this inflammatory statement: PB was only incidentally a serial killer...)

    I've been a Genesis fan for over 40 years, albums have been released , played, listened to, reviewed and criticized ad nauseum. It's safe to assume their relevance in the Genesis catalogue has sunken in by now. Polls are an indicator, more or less precise if you will but they are. If the most recent albums which have the huge advantage of being the most recent, almost invariably occupy the last positions, perhaps it isn't a coincidence.

    The band is no more, they haven't released an album in over 20 years and I reckon they won't anymore.

    With all this in mind, as long as I make clear that I'm expressing an opinion and I am respectful of anybody's taste and opinions which is not always the case here, as I was able to appreciate from very recent comments, I see no point in tiptoeing around or mincing words and I reserve the right to call it as I see it. Sure, some fans might think that say, Another Record, just to mention a dud is a great song, I happen to think they can write stuff like that in their sleep and by gravity a song like that, with time, gets the relevance it deserves. None. It doesn't mean somebody cannot possibly like it, more power to them but we seem to be unable to break out of the equation I like it=it's great or at least it must be great. I wish my favorite band had only released perfect albums with perfect songs, unfortunately for them, as for any other artist it wasn't always the case and I think we should be able to say that. Very few bands are able to keep the fire in their belly with a decades-spanning career, I would say that U2 for instance, whether one likes them or less, deserve a lot of respect because they constantly tried to do just that: keep the flame alive. Genesis simply didn't imo and I don't feel like blaming them, I just liked them more when they were less sleek smooth and glossy but so very intense, original and unique. There is no sin in saying it, I reckon.

    We all have our pet songs and albums, our guilty pleasures and our blind spots, but as you infer, we also should be able to get some perspective after all this time.

    To put it simply: there was one band that was 'intense, original and unique' - young musicians listening to their muse(s), learning their instruments based on the demands of the material they came up with (more or less) as a unit, and in the process offering the world a string of albums second to none - from Trespass through The Lamb, with TOTT and WW excellent additions to the definitive body of work.

    Then that band gradually morphed into a cash machine, which (again!) I'd never hold against them - we all need to make a living. It just needs to be said that to make money, though, one needs to get out of a failing niche market/put out a product with mass appeal whose artistic relevance can only ever be both thin and incidental.

    Music used to be more than serial killer fodder (hehe) - it used to be the soundtrack to people's life, not just another fashion accessory.

    I don't mean to be arrogant (I know I sound it), but a lot of people need to work on said blind spots ;)

    Hi Christian.

    I'm partial to The Changeling - very moody, gothic and inventive, with a punk streak IIRC - it's been a while. I bought it on cassette tape in 1983, haven't heard it in a few years, but :

    In another style, this recent, feelgood tune is very good (complete with spoken intro by a little known musician and guitarist :P) :

    erm - no!

    More Fool Me is a nice interlude on that record. Quite often tracks like this make an album special.

    But not always ;)

    Backdrifter, 'lucrative' isn't necessarily a bad thingand they did need to make a living, after all. I certainly don't begrudge them that.

    I just can't abide the sickly sweet stuff (post-Hackett Genesis+Collins solo career) they chose to peddle to that end and which was prefigured by MFM :|

    SEBTP would be a perfect album without MFM, a twee portent of horrendous but lucrative wagons of pap to come.

    The album's still perfect AFAIC: even the most wonderful land has its muddy spots, after all :P

    I never understood the dislike some have of After the Ordeal : it's a wonderfully melodic and uplifting little instrumental, and an apt and relaxing coda to Epping Forest. Could it be that people only heard it with Tony's backhanded dig (making a point of not liking his own playing on it) in mind?

    'Prog' rather than "progressive rock' is a usefully noncommital shortcut for this kitchen-sink type genre, while being punchy enough to give pause to kneejerk detractors.

    Having said that, l like Steve Hackett's definition/manifesto: 'permissive rock' or, more recent, 'pan-genre approach'compositional freedom in popular music, what a concept!