Posts by thefarmer

  • Will Roger Waters ever shut up?

    As a matter of interest I looked the 1990 show preformed at the Berlin wall on You Tube. ( I do remember watching it on TV) . His costume for In The Flesh and Run Like Hell was.much more outlandish than anything else I've ever seen him wear. He didn't have an armband but the Hammer insignia was plastered all over place on a massive set. As I said previously no one seemed bothered then, it was accepted for what it was.

  • Will Roger Waters ever shut up?

    Quote from Schrottrocker

    It might be worth mentioning that here in Germany there's a strong fraction of journalists who regard any criticism at whatever the state of Israel does as antisemitic no matter what. Plus, in context of the Nazi past of our country, calling somebody an antisemite or a racist is enough for most people to instinctively avoid that person without digging deeper for backgrounds. As a German, you just don't want to be associated with any Nazi. Questioning accusations will inevitably be a minefield you don't want to enter.

    Thanks for that . That's understandable , there"s a fine line between criticism of Israel and anti semitism anywhere , Clearly the attacks on him have had the desired effect. They have diverted away from the injustices he is trying so hard to highlight and they have clearly upset and shaken him greatly.

  • Will Roger Waters ever shut up?

    I saw the Roger Waters show last Wednesday in Birmingham U.K. My fifth time of seeing him. Wonderful show. Yes a lot of politics but we know that's part of it. He has deeply felt emotions and rails against the injustice of innocent people being killed. He had U.S. air force footage in his show showing U.S planes killing journalists and civilians, footage.leaked by Chelsea Manning who was imprisoned and no one was punished for the actual crime. Well known fact. RW rants about horrific injustices throughout the world perpetrated by the rich and powerful and I just don't see what's wrong with that. Ann Frank , George Floyd and Blair Peach get mentions amongst many others. He called out U.S. president's as war criminals He highlighted children being killed in wars and made it personal by showing photographs of many of them. If you struggle with protest music then RW is certainly one to avoid but I don't get why he gets singled out other than the obvious fact that its the very rich and powerful he goes for. I've never heard any anti Semitic language language from him, he supports the Palestinians, a people with no rights , no country and occupied by Israel and his show mentions them here and there as well as others including indigenous Americans, whilst the rest focus's horrifics of war throughout the years. RW has been horribly smeared.


    The BBC reported


    Israel's foreign ministry later criticised the musician on social media.


    "Good morning to everyone but Roger Waters who spent the evening in Berlin (Yes Berlin) desecrating the memory of Anne Frank and the 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust," it tweeted.

    This is a horrible slur. Anti semitism is real and horrible but unfortunately it seems that there there are people who will use the use words anti semetic to attack those that oppose certain political actions.


    In a tweet on Friday, Waters wrote: "The elements of my performance that have been questioned are quite clearly a statement in opposition to fascism, injustice, and bigotry in all its forms... The depiction of an unhinged fascist demagogue has been a feature of my shows since Pink Floyd's The Wall in 1980.".


    I understand that people don't want to see impassioned pleas for world peace with continual examples of war crimes for a night out which is fine , but I love the music and I found it deeply moving and somewhat inspiring. He has been dressing in psuedo fascist clothes for ITF and RLH since The Wall 1980 , I saw him do it. It's Pink having gone mad. He has the psuedo fascist insignia of Hammers designed by Gerald Scarfe to signify fascists wanting to hammer and kill those they dislike , and I guess it's designed to parody the swastika although the clothing is not dissimilar to many totalitarian military uniforms. It's It's all there To say that he is talentless is nonsense. He's been behind some the greatest music of all time. I'm not keen on the TFC but for me Amused To Death is a masterpiece. I find the rift with David Gilmour awful and RW certainly seemed out of order with attitude to PF when they carried on without him.I didn't like it but it's not my business I'm just glad PF carried on because I love them too and if pushed actually prefer thier post split stuff to his. Actually I don't know what to believe about who said what anyway.

    Sometimes I think people forget that from DSOTM and on Pink Floyd have always been a political band.


    As for the show. It was spectacular but still pared down from previous shows. Roger looked visibly shaken by the onslaught he has suffered , I must admit I didn't know much about it until I saw I the show, where a fair bit of hatred towards him was talked out and shown on the screens.. There were a lot of "Fuck You's" as RW replyed to the attacks on him, I looked up the press attacks on him afterwards . He spent a lot time talking to the audience, which he hasn't done before. For the first I've seen him (including The Wall 1980) he didn't don his black trench coat for RLH. It opened with low key Comfortably Numb, which is now not so much about the numbness of an individual but the numbness of society in general where we look at mobile phones and ignore the injustices around us with on screen proclamations about if you ignore the problems you're part of it. The show contained more Rogers Waters own stuff than past shows. He spoke a lot and was highly appreciate of everyone coming . We had side 2 of DSOTM a fair bit of the Wall with huge sound of course but at other times it was more reminiscent of Tom Waits than Pink Floyd. He had a small bar set where he did a new song "The Bar", which was just him and a piano, and a new version of "Outside The Wall" Since I have seen this very moving two hour show, exposing the horrors of violence upon the weak and the ordinary by nation states around the world , I have actually seen RW being accused of being a fascist himself! That's plain sick, but people believe it. By the way he's also been accused of lip syncing. I really didn't want to go to a show where that was going to happen and may not have bought tickets if I'd heard those accusations beforehand There were of course taped effects but he certainly did not lip sync. I will certainly see this passionate, angry, bitter and somewhat shaken old man again if ever I have the chance .

  • Will Roger Waters ever shut up?

    Quote from FeelItComing

    I'm seeing them in August.


    Waters claims the 'costume' he has been wearing is in the character of Pink from The Wall.


    Quote from Backdrifter

    Oh right, yes while I'm not very familiar with The Wall or PF generally I saw the film once and remember that character going fascist. Waters should still know better than to do that in Germany.


    I've heard good things about that Mason show, enjoy.

    I saw NMs band last year they were great.


    Also RW has certainly been wearing that costume ( a little toned down this year , and he didn't wear it in Birmingham the other night) , for over 40 years, I saw the original Wall show at Earls court in 1980 and it's part of Pink's story where he goes mad and In The Flesh (2) Run Like Hell is an anti fascist rant. He wore it in Berlin at the actual Berlin Wall just after in came down in a massive performance of the Wall in 1990 internationally broadcasted and nobody minded then. It was totally appropriate and understood to be a.protest against totalitarianism and how easily ordinary people can sucked in to violent ideaology.. The Wall has much to do with how societies churn out thoughtless racist people

    . By the way it's not SS but can easily be compared to any of well know fascist/communist military leader uniforms. ( Germany does allow wearing of actual SS uniforms for artistic or educational purposes) I think the only reason people are raging against him now is because of his more recent support for the Palestinians and his publisising of war crimes by the Israeli state.


    I saw him the other night will be putting something up about it here. It was a great show.

    .

  • New to me - "new" bands and music

    Riverside.

    A band that has been going for 20 years. Only just heard of them. They were recommended to.me.a.couple of months back by someone I met at a Lifesigns gig so I went to see them a few weeks ago. Really really good. Quite varied stuff from ambient to heavy prog. If you don't know them check them out.

  • Are political threads allowed?

    It may come.as no suprise to some of you that I am paid up member of the anti monarchy group Republic. I had really wanted to attend the protests at the coronation though I was unable due to a long term family commitment on that date. ( I did a leaflet handout wearing my yellow T shirt in Coventry the previous weekend. I quite cheerful and even had some good hearted banter with crowd outside a pub). I had been anxious about going as I was worried about being arrested for publicly expressing my opinion. My fears proved not unfounded. We (members) had a series of emails over months from Graham Smith (the main organizer) telling us that he had been in discussion with the Met and it was all agreed and explaining where we needed to be and what was going to happen. There would be speeches, placards to be handed out and we were told who was doing it and when we needed to be there who was doing it . We were asked to pledge support and expected numbers were given to the authorities. So Graham and several others got arrested ,placards and PAs for the speeches seized. Several people were taken away a few minutes before the procession arrived and searched and allowed back after it passed. Republic have no affinity with Just Stop Oil or No More Royals. Having said that people from Just Stop Oil were arrested for wearing T shirts. With all the money spent there was no way the police couldn't have policed designated areas consisting of identified protesters . Those areas could (rightly) be secured from rogue protesters . Any real problems could only have come from those not identifying as protesters and leaping out from royalist areas, ( I understand at.least one such plot was foiled) . The police could not have said protests were not going to be allowed but it was clear they were going to make any presence minimised. They didn't want Charles to see or hear them and didn't want protests to be heard or seen on the Tele. Royalists could've been informed of the official protest areas so they could have found elsewhere to view the parade in peace, they weren't . Anti democracy pro Royals individuals were not prevented from physically harassing the pro democrats. There was no way the.police could have had any credible intelligence about Graham Smith . He was not going to try and get supporters there on a pretext of a peaceful protest and then put us in the middle of something else..There was nothing illegal about "Not My King".placards which went unused. The placards that were there were those individuals had brought along..Promised speeches from Graham and MPs didn't happen. Republic have a long tradition of peaceful lawful protest. The arrests were blatenty political designed to reduce and belittle the impact of dissenting voices. The government have told us the protests went ahead unimpeded which is a lie. They have also said that we don't compare to China or Russia , which is true though that's nothing to really shout about. It would be truer to say that we don't quite compare just yet. There are many Tory voices calling the protests to be banned altogether and Lee Anderson calling for dissenters to leave the country..


    There got that of me chest!

  • Red Blue and Green Boxes Who do we contact?.

    Quote from thewatcher

    I could weep. Its been years and the last time I was home to my parents house I had boxed up the most precious (I realize that sounds a big like smeegul) of my old collections; cd, DVD, vinyl and books. I intended to ship them to where I live. I didn't and my parents thought the boxes were in the way, so they turfed them out to the shed. The completely not-environmentally-controlled shed, cold and damp. The stuff is not totally destroyed but it has clearly absorbed some moisture and the packaging of everything has a distinctly doughy texture. Sigh. And fuck. Fuck fuck fuck.


    I think the Genesis boxes are the most valuable, I see the blue one cheapest for $490 now on discogs. But I had a bunch of other stuff, smashing pumpkins releases that have gotten very hard to obtain and consequently become quite valuable, a few 1st edition Stephen King books. I guess there's a lesson about minding things you really care about but I've too much a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach to appreciate it. Ah bolloxs anyway.

    Sympathies. I can relate to that.

  • 45th Anniversary! The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - album thread

    Quote from HomeByTheSea

    At this point if the band were going to do something for The Lamb, they should wait until 2024 and make it a 50th anniversary box set. But I would be shocked if they pursued it.

    I think that will happen though. Everyone is doing it. They've sold their rights hasn't they? Whoever owns them now will probably do something next year. I can't really see what else they could do with it, other than nice new vinyl and fancy packaging.

  • Alternatives to the box set.

    A little while back I came across some CDs by doing the old fashioned method of popping in to HMV. I found number of CDs of complete shows from several tours that were broadcast that I don't think I would have known about otherwise. I've been waiting for the box set though before buying. Now it's out I'm can't say I'm keen, ( the first time I've not been keen to get a Genesis release), so I've bought a couple of others to start off with.

    genesis-news.com/forum/dashboard/index.php?attachment/4583/

    So I have this. The complete show.


    And this.

    genesis-news.com/forum/dashboard/index.php?attachment/4584/

    Haven't played them yet so don't know the quality, but actually hoping they sound as broadcast.


    There are other broadcast shows a available and I found a recording of the Six of The Best rehearsal.

  • GENESIS - BBC Broadcasts - details, BBC archive info and evaluation

    I'm reposting this from one of the other boards as I think this is a more appropriate place for these comments.


    My initial reaction to the whole thing is a little disappointed .Brief snippets, bits and pieces. The few Peel session songs are interesting but I was really hoping for the complete Knebworth '78 show as well as the complete lyceum show. I didn't know that the BBC broadcast any of the'98 shows and more of that would've been good. There's loads 87 stuff which I have and I doubt the 92 Knebworth stuff would much different from TWWW CDs. The completest in me says "get it"but I can get a fair bit of that stuff elsewhere.

  • Genesis BBC Recordings Five Cd Box Set out soon!!!!!

    Quote from thefarmer

    My initial reaction the whole thing is a little disappointed .Brief snippets, bits and pieces. The few Peel session songs are interesting but I was really hoping for the complete Knebworth '78 show as well as the complete lyceum show. I didn't know that the BBC broadcast any of the'98 shows and more of that would've been good. There's loads 87 stuff which I have and I doubt the 92 Knebworth stuff would much different from TWWW CDs. The completest in me says "get it"but I can get a fair bit of that stuff elsewhere.

    Am reposting this on a more appropriate thread in the genesis music board.

  • Genesis BBC Recordings Five Cd Box Set out soon!!!!!

    My initial reaction the whole thing is a little disappointed .Brief snippets, bits and pieces. The few Peel session songs are interesting but I was really hoping for the complete Knebworth '78 show as well as the complete lyceum show. I didn't know that the BBC broadcast any of the'98 shows and more of that would've been good. There's loads 87 stuff which I have and I doubt the 92 Knebworth stuff would much different from TWWW CDs. The completest in me says "get it"but I can get a fair bit of that stuff elsewhere.