Posts by Fabrizio

    I appreciate we might have had a shaky start and that we may well not agree on many things but I am sorry for any personal comments that I have made in previous exchanges and I understand that the impression that I first made upon you has made you cautious about subsequent discussions.

    Fair enough. We definitely have a different perspective on our favorite band, I am sure tough we can disagree while making it worth our while here. Much more stimulating in my view than trivial forums feuds ;)

    I voted 'like'. As I've been saying in another thread or two, it's not great, it's okay, but I like it more than the 'neither' option. I'd rather keep it than Heathaze, Please Don't Ask or Alone Again.

    Alone Tonight is really uneventful, to put it mildly.

    It's also important to note that many of the Genesis members were big fans of commercial artists so why wouldn't they want to emulate their heroes?

    All those influences you quoted are correct but they set out to do something else and bring things further. Yes covered Simon&Garfunkel and Deep Purple covered the Beatles on their early albums, clearly these artists influenced them a great deal but just like Genesis they were going elsewhere. Surely Peter wasn't interested in pop, nor was Tony, another Beatles fan or Steve. Mike was certainly more flexible, and Phil while he didn't write much in the beginning is certainly the most versatile of them all.

    They were unquestionably the "poppiest" of all the so-called prog bands, favouring melody over virtuoso playing. Indeed, their first album was nothing but a pop album. It was just that those pop songs were simply not very good. When you get better at something, you're likely to do it more often, which is why you'll find the greater proportion of pop songs came in the second half of their career. I do believe it was Shakespeare who once said something about brevity being the very essence of wit. Ergo, if you can say something in five words, why use ten?

    They were imo, perhaps with Jethro Tull the most song based prog band around, the difference being that perhaps JT didn't have the same level of musicianship to rely on. Genesis' writers department, unlike other bands, was a bit overcrowded and that marked a difference. As for FGTR, it is indeed poppy but I struggle to think of it as their first album, they said themselves many times they were not really in control and they were clearly trying to cater for J.King's taste. With that in mind, I would have no trouble admitting they had their share of pop songs here and there but I don't think they were considered a pop band or released pop albums. I also don't mean to demonize pop per se, nothing wrong with that. Mama and IT touch are both pop song, only for my money, I find the latter tacky and soulless and I wish they had continued on the former's course.

    What on earth are you talking about? I was quoting Shakespeare to illustrate the point that Genesis learnt how to abbreviate their music. The comment was not a personal remark about you at all. Lighten up, for Christ's sake :rolleyes:

    You are right and I apologize, I misconstrued your point , I see that now . I did it because of a couple or remarks you dropped in the past whose tone I didn't quite appreciate but in this particular case I must admit I was wrong. Sorry.

    I do believe it was Shakespeare who once said something about brevity being the very essence of wit. Ergo, if you can say something in five words, why use ten?

    Not the first time you inject personal remarks while debating with me. I will very much appreciate you will refrain from that. If you have something to say, just say it, without getting personal or snarky. Thanks.

    Hahaha! I like both the ITs.


    I was going to make that very point about their very clear pop songs through the years

    They always had the odd pop song or even songs on practically every album. They were still not a pop group, releasing pop albums with the odd 'long' songs on them. That came later.

    I think while not exactly a favourite IT is an excellent pop song..

    I wonder if the fact I detest that song so much it's because it's Genesis' and how I would have reacted, had been by another artist. Perhaps it would grate me less but I still think it wouldn't be on my radar. Fact is that I find the kind of 'evolution' they had insincere for lack of better words. Mama is pop, so is FYFM or even Keep it Dark and I don't have a problem with those. Misunderstanding as I said, is something else, to me it is simply ugly and they don't have a problem admitting that they included it because it had single potential. It doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the album. IT though doesn't have the same problem, it is sleek, smooth, polished….Just too much. The Beatles went from She Loves you to a Day in the Life and it makes sense but Genesis.... To me it was simply odd to hear a group of Musicians who had been around for almost two decades and were pushing 40, suddenly discovering pop, that kind of pop. Ultimately, IT charted and was very successful and THAT makes it a good pop song, taste, quality and subjectivity notwithstanding. Is it an excellent pop song? I really wouldn't know, I think, as pop songs go, Mike wrote better. Anyway, I know that it does nothing for me.

    Invisible Touch and Illegal Alien was deeply depressing.

    I have to agree, no matter the issues I might have wit the material on Abacab, it was still edgy and energetic. The first side of Shapes put the band on a course they should have followed imo. IT was just too blatantly light-coke, MOR, poppy and bland for my taste. I felt they went too far. Stuff like the title track, Anything she does and Into Deep were really subpar for me.

    There's a lot more going on in OOALH musically. It's far from being the bands greatest achievement of course, but it is a song of contrasts. It has a memourable heavy rock riff, presented with bright pop production and, what was at the time, some classy use of sampling. Most people would know that song. It has catchy hooks and memourable melodies. Misunderstanding is utterly forgettable IMO, with it's dull production, dull piano riff and boring lyrics.


    There's a lot more going on in OOALH musically.

    Very true and it applies to the whole album. The more stripped-down approach didn't mena they gave up their musicianship.

    The Bee Gees: they were simply not on my radar. I was moody, broody and loved prog so I couldn't possibly like them but I got their 'Best of' and I have to admit, they were harmony and melody geniuses.

    Journey: I still think their lyrics are quite ridiculous but with the exception perhaps of Cain on the keyboards, their musicianship is top notch, a couple of songs are really great and Perry's voice is fantastic although I could live without some of his vocal mannerisms.

    BTW, I think that Fripp, aside from being a brilliant guitarist is a marketing/advertising genius. When you read his interviews about his music, what it is about, what he wants to achieve it literally makes you want to run out and buy that album. Then, personally, when I actually get to listen, I don't always find what he was talking about. It is most likely me, although Bruford said on couple of occasions that he is full of you know what but he is great describing and talking about his music.

    "Relief" is a pretty good word to describe it. Contextually, I think Down and Out is a similar song with Steve's departure. Although the band was seemingly more established with regards to the fans at that point. It conveys a similar power as well. And other than the little keyboard bit at the beginning has the same guitar riff-drums-pounding bass similar to DOAV.

    While I think there's always a certain level of anxiety when a member leaves and I certain don't mean to diminish Steve's contribution, I believe the degree of trepidation was not as high. I think they knew they could function as a band in the songwriting department, although Steve had began to contribute substantially on W&W and it speaks volume they never sought to replace him as guitarist. I am not saying it was a good move but it certainly clarifies what their frame of mind was. As for D&O, I like it a lot but as I said before, I think they would have done a better job with it on Duke, particularly with Phil's newly founded self-confidence and grit as a singer. He was still too 'bland' on ATTW3 imo.

    Well, 'Many' might be a bit of s stretch but yes, I heard it a couple of times. I think they were talking about their prog-spirit but as I said, I don't hear it or perhaps I am biased and it's just the fact that I don't like them much.

    I'll go with Dance on a Volcano not because it's the strongest song that Genesis used to open an album with. Heck it's not even the strongest song on that album. But...given the context of this song and the "unknown" of what the first album without Peter would sound like, the first few notes of DOAV might be (for me at least), one of the most powerful moments that Genesis had. I imagine owning and loving the 5 previous albums and wondering if everything was going to be ok when the lead singer leaves and then buying Trick, coming home and putting the needle down...

    Excellent point actually. I think the band shared the same trepidation fans had and it must have been quite the relief when Volcano emerged from the first jam sessions. Sort of: 'OK, we still have it'. Very strong opener.

    PC's vocals, further improved with time and I prefer the overall vibe of 3SL. There's something too produced about SO, like it has a sort of sheen to it, and PC's voice hasn't matured properly yet.

    I agree, while Phil did a lovely job on all albums up to Duke, there was no way to predict he would have progressed the way he did. He basically became a very different singer, discovering a power in his voice nobody, including himself I reckon, knew he had. On SO he wasn't really quite there yet imo and Gabriel's material suffers a lot with the exception perhaps of Carpet Crawlers. A very different take but that pure voice works equally fine.