Posts by The_Genesis_Archive

    As to Sum of the Farts, Steve and Ant may not have had the commercial success the others had, (Except Tony. Shame, that!) but to exclude him completely from a documentary that was "claimed" to focus on the collective and solo works of it's members is just wrong. And unjustifiable, except in the mind of one person. Can we guess who? ;)

    Ian, you're an adult. So why debase yourself by manipulating the title?

    Sum Of The Parts was as a project first discussed with executives from Eagle Rock, the director

    John Edginton and Genesis at the TSPM offices in September 2012. It was originally going to be a Classic Albums style documentary about The Lamb. It morphed into a documentary about the Five man era.

    The initial edit was handed to the management (TSPM) and sent to the band members (all) by the middle of June 2014. The management didn't like the original edit (this included footage from 1976), so it was edited again and the documentary was given to someone else to edit/direct. This is when the talking heads were added.

    The original directors vision included using footage of the NYC skyline from the 1970's, but the production team found that 1970's NYC skyline footage was expensive. So modern day footage was inserted into the area about the Lamb. The director disagreed with this.

    The five men were interviewed and appear in the rushes during that interview for 2 solid hours. NO WE DO NOT HAVE THE RUSHES. The seating was wrong also, that film studio has nicer seating and less noisy seating but on that fateful day in March of 2014 at Sundown studios that was chosen.

    The production wanted to move away from the previous documentary cliches (regarding Genesis), although the management never put forward anyone's name. So the production was not aware of Alan Hewitt, Christian, Mario, Dave Negrin and others. Their archivist stumbled across The Genesis Archive and found some of our materials to be most interesting. That is how we became involved, this involved a trip to London to the editing suite, one Friday in May of 2014.

    The documentary could have been much better, this we can all agree on. But in the end its like the management used Eagle Rock and the BBC who part funded it, the BBC spent £300,000. To produce an electronic press kit for the R-Kive release and we all know how uninspired that release is.

    Out of all of the talking heads, the best choice was Al Murray. Not only is he an interesting comedian, but he is a Genesis fan and he is also a musician.

    In some respects the documentary gathered the five men in a room. It also tracked down people like Ed Goodgold who was pivotal in their early success in America. Whilst no one is sure whether it was a good or bad idea to have Jonathan King in the documentary, it has to be said that even documentaries about either of the World Wars include the point of view of most of the sides involved, Nazi's etc

    The footage they used of the roundhouse was expensive to licence from the current owner, but thats all there is of that era. People assume Genesis were filmed all the time and at the time being filmed was an expensive luxury few bands could afford. The fact you have the five men in a room, the three men at the farm and then one or two follow ups with Phil at his NYC home and Mike in Basingstoke during a break in the Mechanics touring. Is a benefit and a plus.

    The issue is not with Tony Banks as some allude to, but perhaps the management who represent the artists it manages. The BBC one show performance was going to have Peter and Steve as well as Mike/Tony/Phil, but the moment Peter pulled out, a decision was made not to continue with Steve on the One show.

    The band all received the final edit, before the premiere in London on the 2nd October 2014. So its not like anyone could be surprised, Phil was lively that night and did utter comments to certain parts of the documentary in a good humoured way. It was Mike Rutherford's birthday and after the show the band, executives from Eagle Rock and the original director and editor were invited to a celebration after party, as was Peter and Steve.

    People need to understand how productions work, they are projects that have budgets. Licensing footage if it can be found, is an expensive part of any documentary. Flying to NYC to interview Phil wasn't cheap either, nor did the members of Genesis do it for free. They got an appearance fee.

    I have always maintained that Genesis need a Beatles Anthology documentary, perhaps 5 to 6 hours in length. But I just don't think there is the budget out there or the appetite from the band or management.

    I'm happy to answer questions, but wary of what I can say.

    Kind regards,


    You could always ask him. The rules on Simon's site stipulate that only officially released material can't be shared. Genesis and their management are fully aware of the site and appear to have no issues with the current content (which includes The Headley Grange tapes, an alternative mix of the Abacab album and the sessions for Selling England By The Pound). So where's the harm in asking him?

    I'm not sure why you would see offering the material you have obtained as being tantamount to "ransom". I mean, it is their intellectual property, right?

    Am I being overly naive here? I thought that, considering the band is now all-but defunct from a creative aspect, anything of archival interest would be hugely beneficial to both the band and its die-hard fans. There are a raft of fans who spend time and energy in preparing recordings to be shared online, many of whom I imagine also have "lives and jobs to be getting on with" (although in a period of national lockdown, you can scrub the latter off your list for most people), whose altruism is a credit to them.

    So aside from trying to get us to share something like the BASF reel, you ignored the other part of the post.


    I agree, that’s what I was thinking when I watched it. I do think that the album may not have been lyrically as interesting if you got a few members contributing words for it. I think the scenes that Peter set out with those words are touching on genius as I see it. The fact that he was apparently sat in another room writing those words whilst the others were getting on with the music itself is also amazing. Considering what he was having to go through in his own personal life at that time makes me think it was amazing that he could write anything constructive and imaginative at all. A credit to him that he managed it. Tony Banks though equally has a dominant influence on the album with his keyboard work which I think he can be justifiably proud of, even though he doesn’t seem to look back on the whole experience with much enthusiasm.

    The band were going through an awful time, emotionally etc perhaps the Lamb reminds Tony of this more than he would like.


    I’ve just had the opportunity to watch the dvd section of the 1970-75 Lamb disc, amazing how much Tony Banks seems to not rate the album that highly?, I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it since then?. Most fans would rate it as their best work I would guess?. A great watch. I do hope they one day re issue these boxes, seems to me a no brainer and would be a good seller now the equipment to play it on has decreased in price, I remember SACD was quite a niche product and expensive when it came out, which for the most part it still is with regard to audiophile labels.

    Not really Wayne, a Sony Playstation 2 could play SACD's but for the better quality you needed to spend a bit more. At one time we had a Sony DVD/Sacd player that was less than £300. We brought a Denon separate DVD/Sacd player for £180, when we went over to separates. The myth that the SACD players were hugely expensive or the lack of research from the majority of the music buying public killed SACD.

    Nick Davis and I had the same model system in the mid 2000's a Sony Dav S-550 which came with a player, amp and 5 speakers plus the Sub. Peter Gabriel's UP SACD sounded excellent on it.

    Kind regards TGA.

    Regarding the BASF tapes that you have of The Lamb mixes, how come these haven't been made available to the band for their mooted upcoming box set? Or, come to that, how come you haven't made them available to the fans on sites such as Traders Den or The Movement?

    I note on your YouTube site that someone asked you why they haven't been made more freely available, and you were quite abrupt in your reply, claiming that "everyone wants something for nothing". A rather churlish attitude, in light of how much stuff that is available for fans to share freely. You wouldn't happen to be sitting on these tapes, hoping for the band's management to make you an offer would you? In the same way that Tony Maylam refused to release the full version of his film White Rock for use on the 1976 - 1982 box set unless Genesis gave him a ton of money.

    Its one BASF tape, handed to us by someone who brought it from a flea market in Blackheath, its path to the flea market for us is unknown but likely to be less than orthodox. For your information non of us at TGA ransom stuff to the band. That tape cost us £120 to have professionally transferred. We cannot upload all of it to Youtube, it would incur a copyright strike and be taken down.

    Anyone is able to create a comparison video and upload those to Youtube, so thats what we did. The reason why we have not created more comparison videos, is that they take a lot of time and research. Remember we all have lives and jobs to be getting on with.

    Same as we cannot offer it to Simon F's site because we imagine the management would come down hard on Simon F. As for Youtube, people who make non of the effort, who don't put the hours in or offer anything to help the website. Seemingly want something for free. Like others who have websites, we work hard, the collection of material we display is either from our own pocket or at the goodwill of others. We do work with elements of the community, because we believe in sharing our intelligence and collection.

    At least this time the missing footage is only missing because it was NEVER filmed in the first place! Yes, difficult to believe but true, but the decision not to film several tracks from these gigs (namely: Dodo/Lurker, the Eleventh Earl Of Mar Medley, Carpet Crawlers and the drum duet) was taken in order to comply with the restrictions on running time for commercial VHS releases at the time.

    Whilst we cannot speak for Tony Maylam, our last correspondence with him did indeed reveal that he has all of the rushes for Glasgow, Stafford and the truck carrying the equipment down the M6. We got the impression money was not the stumbling block from Tony's side.

    We hope that answers your query.

    Kind regards,


    I like to look on those 1994 remasters as being the definitive versions of the original mixes whereas the Nick Davies remixes are an attempt to shed new light through old windows, so to speak. As a fan, it's important to me to have both versions because the original mixes were what I heard first when collecting the albums all those years ago and so I suppose I'm sentimental about those mixes.

    I get that, but in this Lamb comparison video you will be able to notice the difference. The 1994 Definitive Edition Remasters, only came from the stereo masters, not the multi track masters. There was some audio trickery to make those sound half decent.

    Hope that helps,


    Could one of you folks who owns these sacd/dvd boxes remind me what they cost when they came out retail?. I do realise that the price they go for now makes your eyes water!!. I wouldn’t pay the price they ask on the auction site as I’ve never really been into CDs as much as vinyl records, I bought every vinyl record from And then there were three on release or not far from it. Funny how I remember seeing such titles in Woolworths at the time. I really wonder why they haven’t thought about re issuing them again?.

    Certainly they were around £99.00 to £120. Depending on which ones you got!

    Hope that helps,


    On that 1980 tour there was also a right old brouhaha, some say furore, when it was discovered that an entire gig - Birmingham? Liverpool? - had somehow been given completely over to fan club members. I'm not sure if that's true or if so how it would've happened but there was definitely a big old froth about it.

    But yeah as I understand it, the 80 tour satisfied a hankering they had to return to the smaller venues of their earlier career, including a nostalgic Aylesbury Friars Club gig for which the ticket queue went twice around the entire globe. Or something.

    If only there was an archive somewhere, where you could read music papers and other bits from the era...…s-1980-to-2020/duke-tour/

    The article in question: Sounds 9th February 1980 -…dressed-as-a-ticket-tout/

    Kind regards,


    Yes applying logic to the news I broke to the wider community, its likely to be material they already have released.

    Rather than them producing/editing/balancing the sound on stuff they have not released.

    I for one would love to see The Mama tour documentary that the band commissioned, look carefully at the end credits of the Mama video you can see them on there and being credited.

    Kind regards,


    Back to near sanity (play nice folks).

    Yes legal entities, company names and accounts are often public domain. A lot can be learned from trawling through these. Ray did not appear as a director in any Genesis or Tony Smith related company accounts.

    That said, the concept of being a member has never been formally established either. But in the cold light of day does it really matter? it doesn't change history.

    Still, all good to see people talking / debating etc


    One would assume that Justin Crew (the bands Keyboard tech) and whomever Mike's tech is currently, went through the gear with Geoff Callingham. This would have meant stuff was shipped to NYC for the January rehearsals and then shipped back.

    They will also be testing, assembling backline gear and stuff to ensure that they have all they need for the rehearsals in late Spring and then in Oct/Nov.

    Thats not ruling out anything else, so if anyone see's anything or knows anything do tell! But don't trespass in order to find things out.


    4/ Just not a fact. If you don't accept Ray's absence as evidence of trying to airbrush him, nothing I could say is going to convince you. For the record, IMO, Ray wasn't a member of Genesis, he was a hired hand, like Chester and Daryl, etc, whether fans choose to accept him as one, based on his appearance on the record, sleeves, promo videos and so on, is a matter for individual opinion, but he was never a member in the same sense as Peter, Steve, Ant, or the early drummers, John and Chris.

    For the record, Ray Wilson was a member of Genesis. This was confirmed by Carol Willis when she worked for Hit & Run (Tony Smith Personnel Management), during a few phone calls and emails between 2007/2009.

    So Ray Wilson in the eyes of the Genesis management was a member. Ray might not of had the longevity of other members, but from 1996 through to the middle of 1998 he was a member.

    John Mayhew, Chris Stewart, Mick Barnard were in the group for a shorter period of time.

    Worth considering.


    All this mention of Blood on the Rooftops: They will never perform it, it's predominantly Hackett, and they don't want to acknowledge him at all, just like Ray Wilson. Remember Sum of the parts?

    I think this is incorrect, Sum Of The Parts had an ethos. It was originally going to be part of the Classic Albums series, focusing on The Lamb. But after the meetings between the band / production of the documentary in September 2012. It was decided to concentrate on the 5 man era. Ray was not going to be interviewed once that decision was made.

    We should know we worked on some of this documentary, had a few discussions with the director, editor, etc


    We would like to see an unplugged with string section (maybe orchestra)... now that would be a treat. It doesn't have to be synths and electric guitar...

    That would be the way to go, maybe even with visuals on a par with Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds production that we saw in 2009. Now that was like the Jeff Wayne WOFTW's DVD from 2007, so in some cases actors could act out certain parts maybe.

    That could be a better way of doing it, rather than people expecting Phil or others to run around or similar.

    Just our ten pence / ten cent's worth.


    Phil, Mike, Tony and Nic plus Daryl and some of the legacy roadcrew, were in New York City for rehearsals recently (January).

    My source confirmed to me last October, that Phil spoke with him to confirm Genesis were going to reunite.