if any members of the forum have any communication with anyone who could get the boxes re issued the same as the first time I would be over the Moon!.
I'd rather have the stuff that's unavailable re-released (i.e. the SACD) on an appropriate format (Blu-ray audio?)
Then there's When In Rome ... Blu-ray?
I don't need, and don't want anything in Dolby Atmos
me to I honestly don’t know why they did the one release of these boxes, why oh why go to all that effort to just release them the once. There are probably thousands of new fans who want them as much as old fans who missed out like me. Surely the groups management see the ridiculous prices these are been asked for on eBay and consider to re issue them all again. Wouldn’t hurt to repress a couple of 1,000 of each !. They could gladly take my money now but ebays prices of between £200 for the last box to £600 for the first box is a rich mans hobby!. I would love to ask Tony Banks why they just put them out once !!. SACD is more popular today then it was in 2008 , look at the Analogue Productions and Mobile Fidelity labels they still sell loads of them?.
Can’t see these shows happening at all this year just got news Steven Wilson has completely cancelled his tour now. Also Nick Mason Saucerful of Secrets have yet again cancelled the twice re arranged dates. No chance. Was feeling optimistic due to the vaccine roll out been such a success, but I didn’t factor in the people from abroad whom have probably bought a lot of tickets. Unfortunately I doubt they will be able to come to the UK to see these shows. Just ain’t going to happen, this virus is causing never ending cancellations and it’s showing no sign of getting any better sadly.
The mobile fidelity is miles ahead of anything I’ve heard of this album, it’s far superior, Even though I don’t have the SACD (I Know I keep banging on about by them getting released again), I have heard it and to me it isn’t anywhere as good sonically. Entangled sounds delightful on this vinyl as does everything else on it. You know your in for a treat as soon as the guitar intro starts. When I first bought it I couldn’t believe it, I had a Technics 1210 then and it sounded lovely , I now have a Technics SP-10 (old radio surplus turntable with direct drive which is easier to use). The album sounds better as you go up the turntable scale. Like you I’m not wealthy and never had any money to speak of but have gradually worked my way up to a fairly good record player which doesn’t cost the Earth. Hi Fi is a very diminishing terms pursuit just because something costs £20,000 doesn’t mean it sounds 20 times better than a £1000 turntable, the improvement isn’t that significant as You increase price but the backgrounds are more dark and the soundstage opens up I’ve found. Same with cartridges. I’ve just saved up for a £300 one from my £40 Ortofon and the difference is significant.
Audio luddite here in peace. I love it when music sounds great. If streaming or downloading I try to get the highest quality files I can (flac or what). I enjoy vinyl although the time I get to listen to it is short these days... I have a pair of elac bookshelf speakers I *think* sound great and I just treated myself to a pair of sennheiser wireless over ear headphones. I will occasionally research different vinyl releases to see what's thought to sound good.
So I am interested in this topic. I have to ask... Is there no upper limit to improvement in audio quality? In other words, what is it about this golden egg of Genesis vinyl that would sound so much better than the best commercially available one? Beyond a certain point, how can the aural quality of drums, guitars, keyboards and other instruments be enhanced in their journey from the musician making the sound 45 years ago to the sound entering my eardrum today? Is the goal to get as close as possible to being in the room where the sound was made at the time the sound was made?
I have a lot of high quality pressings and high resolution files, I actually think that if a record is recorded well in the first place, whether that be live or studio there is as technology progresses further and further improvements sonically, well I have found that myself.Some 1950s/1960s jazz pressings sound astounding to my ears. Take for example Dave Brubecks “Time Out” classic album on the Analogue Productions cut (the company the chap in the video owns), this was recently released on a double 45 RPM pressing and you would swear that the drum solo was in the room with you. I do a lot of my listening via a good quality headphone amplifier (Ifi Micro idsd black label) which decodes all the high resolutions like DSD 128 ( a 40 minute album in the format would take up a whopping 7-8Gb of space on its own ) and through that from my MacBook Pro into Sennheiser HD800S headphones some of the sounds are astonishing. I do think that you can clearly notice a bad recording and such bad recordings only sound worse when they try to up the resolutions to re issue them.
If you are interested in checking out some of these titles, I would recommend the following albums if you haven’t heard them already
Harry Belafonte live at Carnegie Hall on Analogue Productions
Muddy Waters - Folk Singer - Mobile Fidelity standard and SACD also same album on Acoustic Sounds.
Alison Krauss & Union Station - Live MFSL
most of the stuff pressed by Acoustic Sounds is great , another one which I would strongly recommend and has just been re pressed is the Captain and Me - Doobie Brothers (Speakers Corner Records ) - moderate priced at the moment but amazingly sounding.
I do think the sound of many titles that I own on vinyl has improved on some pressings and most certainly some of the recent re issues of albums on SACD and blu ray audio give you deeper insight into what was going on , on many of the albums we thought we knew. I listened to a Pat Metheny blu ray audio of the album I like called the Way Up and you could clearly hear the drummer throw a percussive instrument over his shoulder and it land on the floor. I actually watched the bluray again to confirm he had done this, and it shows him doing it but I didn’t notice it before after many listening on a basic equipment set up !. I do think what you say is the ultimate goal getting as near sonically to the timbres of the recording studio and many of these high resolution or pure vinyl pressings are achieving that even on modest equipment.
I only found it existed yesterday and I to am as envious as it’s possible to be !, there can’t be that many of them around and he has two of them!. The fact it is on UHQR surely means mobile fidelity had the option of releasing it back in the day and pressed it as a test but decided to abandon going any further.
I think there were only around 8 or 9 original UHQR released
Cat Stevens - Tea for the Tillerman
Floyd - DSOTM
Alan Parsons Project - I Robot
Beatles - Sgt Pepper
Holst - The Planets
Supertramp - Breakfast in America
and a couple of others that I can’t remember off hand , all go for silly money now probably over £300 each for the lesser titles. Heaven knows how much this would sell for as it’s never been heard by fans like us and no doubt the band haven’t heard it either. I can only think that sonically it’s the holy grail of Genesis vinyl , the standard Mofi is brilliant I shudder to think how good this one will sound !. Maybe if we both start doing a line on the Lottery every week we can put an offer in!, I’m sure they are actually beyond any reasonable prices. What price could you put on records that no one has ever had the chance to hear before ?. I think one of the other titles was by Guitarist Earl Klugg and another was a classical / opera album, but I am uncertain.
You can see the video here
I was watching a video yesterday of Chad the Owner of Analogue Productions and Acoustic Sounds showing some of his rare records. They were all white label pressings which he had come by due to being high up in the audiophile vinyl World. I was amazed to see him lift up an unreleased version of Trick of The Tail on the Mobile Fidelity UHQR label!!. apparently this was pressed but not released , what I would give for one of those. As you may know the UHQR by mobile fidelity were released on a handful of titles including Dark Side of The Moon / SGT Pepper etc in black boxes. If they had only released this title in the format as well as the standard version. Would I love to hear that. I guess it would be worth a small fortune and I bet it sounds sensational!.
I would like to ask If at all possible would he possibly consider asking about re issuing those Genesis Green/Red/Blue box sets in Blu Ray Audio or the original SACD format. And also why haven’t those particular versions been re issued again for fans like me who missed out first time around.
Your in for a sonic treat and it will be well worth the wait!, this album to me blows away any other Genesis album for sound quality and by a long long way. Why they stopped at one is beyond me who knows maybe in the future.
I went to see that Straits show on a coach from Hull, forgot who did the tours then but I went all over the place with them for years and years. Both Straits Concerts, Oasis at Loch Lomond, Thin Lizzy at Leeds Queens Hall. Good old days, I remember vividly Telegraph Road. In fact it was so vivid I can particularly remember the introduction in Stereo flirting from the left speaker stack to right. The sound quality of that show was exceptional. The crowd were all well behaved and I had at least three feet either side of me to move in and I was about 1/4 of the way back . Wish they had of recorded that but it was on the same tour at Alchemy was recorded.
The badge of honour thing is worn by fans in different ways. There are many people on this board who have seen Genesis while I have not. It's not a problem. Yet on the Knopfler board, as I had only seem him twice with Dire Straits & once on his own, that wasn't apparently enough. Or at least that is how I interpreted it. This is getting off topic, sorry.
I saw Knopfler with the Notting Hill Billies years ago I was pretty bored with it to be honest , if my rather poor memory is still good he did one song all night by Dire Straits , also saw Dire Straits at the Birmingham NEC and I thought that was Soul less!, a complete contradiction of the incredible show I saw at the Bridlington Spa Theatre on the Love Over Gold Tour. One of the best shows I’ve ever seen and having space to move what a show that was. Sorry for equally going off topic!.
It’s a shame they fell out, I thought they both had such a good understanding of each other behind a drum kit. It seems a little unfair of Phil blaming him (allegedly) for his mistakes on the 2010 tour. I guess Chester sort of admits to not being as methodical in preparation. But a shame they fell out id have loved to have seen him on the next tour- a real shame they can’t bury their issues and get on again.
This is the definitive list of the set list . I worked it out. No need to bother guessing anymore . This is it.
Battle Of Epping forest
Down and Out
Counting out Time
Mad Man Moon.
Battle Of Epping Forest
Please Don't Ask
Harold The Barrel
Looking For Someone
Back in NYC
Just A Job To Do
Keep it Dark
Can Utility And The Coastliners
The Silent Sun
Dancing With The Moonlit Knight
surely they are going to start with “More Fool Me” that’s one way to get the crowd on a state of euphoria rushing the stage!, Back a few Paces everyone , if we all can step back a few paces!. Harold the Barrel another one to get the crowd grovelling and salivating!. Bring it on!.
I think backing singers should be great, to be honest I’d rather have them to fill the sound out if Phil’s voice is fragile - no worries on that department bring them on. The only issue is what songs will they sing on?. Was looking at the usual shoe ins for set lists and I’m having trouble seeing any?.
If they did “ Many Too Many” for a change that would be great with backing .
On the other hand ... will those shows take place in September already anyway?
I can’t see why not?, if the Genesis shows are going to happen would Steve alter his dates I can’t see that , after all his dates were announced first?. But as you have suggested with the overlapping dates , probably a lot of folks will be wishing to attend both shows?, I can’t see Fans been purely Steve Hackett fans if they are going to see a Seconds Out revisited show!. September for me is going to be the most congested month ever for concerts I’ve up to press got 11 concerts in that month now!.
It’s a shame for those who are going to the Hackett show the same night , I really feel for them and it’s a pity that they didn’t look at Steve’s Dates before picking that particular evening.
Those SACD / DVD boxes have already been remastered and all the work has been done - must of cost a lot of money to do the first time and to only release on one occasion seems to underestimate need. I don’t think it was limited the first time around so why not do another set of all of them?. If they don’t sell I’d be very surprised!, one way to guarantee them selling is by putting limited re issue on the box say 2,500 and I bet they would fly out!.
That’s a good, comprehensive analysis. I think the band are right not to endlessly repackage the same material. What I find disappointing and in contrast to the service that a lot of other major bands provide for their fans, is that people younger than me were not able to buy the box sets and get access to some of that material. If the band saw those box sets as the definitive round up of their canon they should make them available to new fans, younger fans and people who want to update their collections. I’m sure that is expensive to produce but at least some effort could be made to analyse the cost effectiveness. Maybe one big box set, offered directly though an official website. Furthermore, it may be that there is only a small demand for live shows so I think there should be a cheap way of offering official downloads that do not cost the band too much to offer. Finally- Genesis have not had an effective official website for many years, if ever. This of itself is suggestive of a lack of concern for their past and their supporters. If there was such a website, some of the material we talk about on this forum could be offered I’m sure.
I’m in 100% agreement with what you say regarding the the issue of the physical product mentioned by The Genesis Archive above.
For me it is unfair on the new generation of fans and the old fans who may not have known about these re issues. I for one wasn’t a member of a forum or indeed on the internet that much in 2006/2007. Things were a lot more harder to find and to be honest I didn’t even know the SACD box sets were available. If there was a televised campaign promoting them I didn’t recollect seeing it. I really feel that releasing these once is harsh, as has been said above there are more than likely a multitude of new fans around the World and they more than likely would buy the SACD box sets. Surely the fact they always sell every time one is listed for a more reasonable price on eBay shows this. People may
Think here they go again re issuing something I already have, but they don’t have to buy again. it’s for those who didn’t get the chance the first time around.
Look at other artists, classic albums are re issued on vinyl regularly from the 60s and 70s and there is a continuous market for these. I wish they were like some of the other bands who regularly look at ways to re issue product to cater for these new untapped markets.
I would assume it's purely financial, that anticipated sales wouldn't justify the cost. But, given how much they retail for second hand maybe I'm wrong and there's another reason.
yes I’ve been looking on eBay for around two years for these, there was a set of four that went for £400 in Germany last month and I forget to bid!. I was pig sick for a week afterwards!. There is a set of 5 for a ridiculous amount of well over £1500 on eBay USA. They just don’t seem to drop in price. I’m guessing the first one (possibly the most sort after) won’t go down in price and it usually sells for over £225. I’d like them but not that much. There are probably many 1,000s of new fans since 2007 and I’d bet a lot of these are wanting these as much as I do!.