Posts by MoonlitKnight

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    A concert on my 25th birthday. Damn I’m old lol

    Love it for all the reasons stated by thewatcher. To me, vocally and musically, Mama does bear some resemblance to some of Phil’s early solo stuff—In the Air Tonight, I Don’t Care Anymore, Thru these Walls. At the same time, Tony’s keyboard sound is pure Genesis all the way.

    Wichita Lineman: maybe one of the most perfectly arranged pop songs in rock history, courtesy of songwriter Jimmy Webb.


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    I must say I was actually enjoying the back and forth, I think it's the point of a Forum, as long as it's done respectfully and I think it was. Of course I respect your opinion and your desire to stop here.

    With all due respect I think these drawn-out back-and-forth discussions can hit the point of diminishing returns after a while. The likelihood of anyone changing anyone else’s mind is virtually nil, and becomes even more so when the discussion is prolonged—it’s not in our nature as human to invest substantial time and effort into such an effort only to throw up our hands and admit rhetorical defeat. Perhaps it’s time for all to say peace and you’re entitled to your opinion.

    Jackpot! Heard this on SiriusXM Deep Tracks this afternoon :)


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    3SL was my first introduction to their 70s material--hearing the Cage medley was an incredible experience--I didn't know what I was hearing, it was so different from anything I'd heard. I was particularly fond of the Cinema Show section because it sounded so uplifting and powerful. I knew I had to dive deeper into the Genesis catalog at this point and what an adventure that was/has been/is.


    I'm guessing the Old Medley from TWWW may have had a similar effect on others to pique their interest in the old material.


    In short, it's magic

    For me the Old Medley from The Way We Walk was good, it didn’t match the raw energy of the In the Cage medley. Also I found it difficult to get past hearing The Musical Box as a section in the middle of a medley. That song has probably my most favorite ending of any Genesis song, and its drama and power were at least partially sapped by segueing right into FoF rather than being the actual end of the medley.

    On the shoreline, they could have not used the "Elephant" because it doesnt really add to the song, unlike No Son of Mine, where it actually helps it build up at the beginning

    I agree. I listened to On the Shoreline yesterday for the first time in a while. It struck me as well that it was not at all integral to the opening of the song, which would have sounded interesting enough without the “elephant” sounds. I’d have been happy to see OTS replace Tell Me Why, Way of the World, or Tell Me Why on WCD. To me WCD is like the Shapes album: a strong side one but a largely forgettable side two (Fading Lights on WCD being the exception).

    I only speak for myself, but as a *fan*, I precisely want to hear "non hits" (or "deep cuts"). :D

    It rather may be the "general/average audience", who knows songs because of radio airplay since the 80's, "Phil Collins connection"...

    I really wonder what songs it would be...

    I think the fan favorites category applies in this case to their pop era hits. I’d have died and gone to heaven if they’d have played Supper’s Ready (especially A in 9/8) or Watcher of the Skies on this tour, but in that case you would have had 90% of the audience (at least at the US shows) furrowing their brows in a “WTF is this?” moment. Those songs are classics by any standard, but are completely unknown to most of the concert attendees.

    I would disagree as well but it needs to be measurable to an extent, otherwise it's up to anybody's taste to decide what's a classic and if you read carefully, I specifically said it's a mix of several factors. A song like Invisible Touch can be polarizing among Genesis fan but the general public made it a monster hit. The song has featured in any tour since release, it was played in 2007 and it was played now. I'm sure there's isn't a single doubt in anybody's mind it was going to be included. Abacab is a hybrid, not as artistically acclaimed as its predecessors, not as commercially successful as its successors, as I said it never ranks particularly well in any poll but yes, it has a few fans and there are a couple of good songs there. Again though, while we don't know the reasons why, we cannot dismiss the fact that it was dropped completely by the band, long before Phil had drumming and singing limitations but to be honest if it had happened with an album or songs I fancy, what the band think wouldn't change the way I feel or my enjoyment of it

    By the measure of dropping music from a given album completely from live sets, none of the songs on Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, and (at least on the most recent tour) A Trick of the Tail are “classic”? If it’s a mix of several factors, doesn’t that mean each factor must be present for a song to be called “classic”? If not, which factors are most important? It seems to me commercial success is at the bottom of the list (if it deserves to be there at all). Members of the band have talked about the challenge of putting together a setlist in which much of the set has to be comprised of songs that the fans expect to hear (the hits). As they have pointed out, that leaves a limited amount of time to play songs they’d like to play that aren’t “fan favorites.”

    I gave some parameters which of course can never be entirely objective but based on those for instance, Turn it on again is certainly a classic, Mama perhaps, so no, their classics don't necessarily end with the 5 man era. As I said stuff like I can't dance or IT is far more likely to be mentioned when talking about Genesis because they are relatively recent and were massively successful, it doesn't matter what I think about them, they are classics and they must play them. As I said I think Dodo and M&SJ are fine songs, keep it dark is intriguing and MOTC a nice listen no more than that.

    Where I would disagree the most is with the notion that commercial success is one of the ingredients of what makes a song a “classic.” It makes little difference if a song is mentioned a lot or gets more airplay. Most pop music by definition involves a trade-off between inventiveness and commercialism. Millions listened to, danced to, and bought albums filled with disco music in the mid-to-late 70s; that didn’t make the music “classic.” Also if you look outside the music world from film to art to automobiles, “classic” is defined as something that pushes the creative envelope, something not necessarily designed for large-scale mass consumption.

    I like Dodo and M&SJ but I think sometimes we all should make an effort to move away from the Idea that what we like is a classic. It's a mix of things: consensus amongst the fans, reviews, commercial success, longevity etc... Those songs simply don't cut it in any of those areas. I don't care about any of the above and I still Ike them, nor do I care whether the band like them or less but excellence can never determined by one's taste.

    It all depends on your definition of “classic.” By the most strict definition the last “classic” Genesis was found on W & W: Eleventh Earl; One for the Vine; USFTS/ITQE/Afterglow. Hell, some would even claim (incorrectly I think) that the “classic” era of the band ended when Gabriel left. I do think that certain songs post W & W deserve the classic label, with the last song that fits that category being Dodo. It was the last truly prog sounding song they did, complete with bombastic synths and a quirky, inventive keyboard solo (albeit a short one). I enjoy Home by the Sea/Second Home, Domino (though not as much as HBTS), and Fading Lights, but those songs lack the truly inventive qualities of previous songs (including Dodo).