Posts by BassAnd12Man

Quote from TheGerkuman

I think certain songs sound better in the lower key. Heck, I actually preferred Ripples at the 2007 Key. (Sacrilige I know)

Nah, your opinion.... which is just as valuable as anyone else's opinion :).

Quote from Fabrizio

I think most of the people going to the upcoming gigs are not necessarily the same who have voted for Trick, Lamb and SEBTP, incidentally my favorites no matter the order. I'm just guessing but judging by the comments, some of the fans interested in the gigs are generally younger, got on board with the latest albums and perhaps never had the chance to see the band live. I´m generalizing of course but I'd submit the majority of earlier fans are not that interested and as such I think the choice of material is about right.

You may very well be right Fabrizio. But as a 45+ year fan, I am/was hoping for 1-2 surprises as this is definitely the last hurrah for them. And I would venture to say that there's still a sizable portion of older fans in attendance. My guess is that the current setlist was entirely based on what Phil could handle vocally (even transposed). I can hardly imagine him singing ATOTT or Gabriel-era material, for example.

Quote from choccy

Tonight Tonight Tonight has been posted finally, seems they had some issues at beginning and Phil forgot words also.

Tonight Tonight Tonight Video

Thanks. Man, these songs are unrecognizable transposed so low. I remember thinking the same thing in '07 with Ripples and other songs but this seems much worse. Duchess also lost a lot of its punch in a lower key. I realize that this is the current reality. Also noticed quite a few flubs in some of the posted videos (e.g. Banks was off tempo pretty badly in Cinema Show last night). Hopefully, opening tour jitters.

Quote from TheGerkuman

I mean, there's a reasonable amount of stuff there. And 'favourite' doesn't really capture a range value. Some people love all the albums almost equally and others only like certain ones. I think a ranked choice vote would probably be the best way to see, but you can't do that on this forum software.

More generally, I was hoping to see more love for the Self-Titled album, as it was one of my picks (along with Trick and Duke).

I suspect that rank ordering would reveal roughly the same top 3. It's just interesting to me to see the "era divide" pop up yet again. This isn't meant as bait for arguing. If you like Invisible Touch, go for it. In my mind, there's a bit of cognitive dissonance if you equally enjoy Foxtrot and Invisible Touch, for example. But hey, that could be my problem lol. Peace.

I'm sorry but I just can't stop comparing 2 "recent" versions of DOWTMK, the one form last night and this one from 5 years ago:

Quote from choccy

That could be it.

I know it was mentioned somewhere earlier that in the programme they also list a third guitarist.

Almost certainly a guitar tech as he seemed to be tuning one of the guitars in the early part of the clip. He's looking down at a tuner, more than likely.

Quote from Christian

@ all new members

You may want to participate in this poll

Christian, though the responders to your poll are certainly not "representative" show goers necessarily, it's nonetheless interesting to see how disconnected preferences (the top 4 albums are '70s stuff) are to the actual current setlist. Maybe we can send your poll results to Phil, Mike and Tony lol (yes, that's a joke). Thanks for doing this.

Quote from Backdrifter

But if he had that confidence in his new stuff he'd tour it properly, he wouldn't choose to do a token couple of tracks and get them hurriedly out of the way before focusing on an entire 44-year old album by his old band.

This topic always seems to come up and I empathize with the various realities that Steve might be juggling. On the one hand, playing Genesis has become his meal ticket. Less cynically, I actually think that he senses some responsibility in carrying the prog torch forward with this material which is admirable since no one else is doing it. On the other hand, I really like a lot of his solo stuff. I was fortunate to see him on some of his earlier tours (in '80 and '81) and those shows were fantastic. He did thrown in the occasional Genesis bit but it was 5-10 minutes in a 2+ hour show. I'd personally see him again if he decided to solely focus on the solo stuff (he did do Spectral mornings not that long ago) but he is in a "bind" at this point, I suspect, having done these Genesis tours for so many years now. Robert Plant was kind of in the same situation. On his first few tours, he absolutely refused to play any Led Zeppelin. Then, on the Now & Zen tour, the floodgates opened and these became staples of his live shows, albeit in very bizarre forms in recent shows.

Thanks for posting the setlist and for the videos. I'm not terribly surprised by the setlist (it's pretty much 2007 give or take) which is probably the most disappointing part. I was hoping that they'd slip in one true surprise but alas, no. The intro to DOWTMK was pitiful; I'm sorry. Yes, I'm going to see them (in NA) and yes, I will enjoy it and feel more than a twang of nostalgia but man, oh man, age is not for the faint of heart (and I'm speaking to myself as much as anything else)..... Take care.

Quote from Snowbound

I think it has less to do with him having “no conviction in his own new material” and more to do with the fact that Second’s Out takes up the majority of the set. TBH I have mixed feelings on the second’s out tour. On the one hand I missed his initial Genesis Revisited tours so I’m looking forward to seeing him in the states next year. On the other hand I would prefer more of his solo material... or at least if he were to do mostly Genesis stuff I’d rather he didn’t follow the order of Second’s Out. Imo Second’s Out has a terrible flow due to the space limitations of vinyl. I find afterglow by itself to be particularly egregious as I feel the songs works best being transitioned into. I would prefer a set where he plays all the songs from Second’s Out but changes the order to flow better. This would be my ideal set for the tour:

Squonk

Carpet Crawlers

Every Day

Held In The Shadows

Robbery, Assault and Battery

Cinema Show

The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway

The Musical Box

Shadow of the Hierophant (instrumental)

The Air Conditioned Nightmare (to celebrate Cured’s anniversary)

Afterglow

I Know What I Like

The Devil’s Cathedral

Firth of Fifth

Supper’s Ready

Dance On A Volcano

Los Endos (w/ Myopia intro + Slogans interlude)

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Seconds Out has terrible flow because it's got noting to do with the W&W setlist flow (excluding Cinema show form the '76 tour for now). It would have been better as a triple live album since nearly all of W&W was played at some point during the tour. As someone who saw that tour, Seconds Out doesn't do it for me. It sounds "thin" and Genesis live was a monster by this point (loud and booming).

Quote from absinthe_boy

Phil initially wasn't too keen on the 07 tour either....He'd been told it was a few concerts in major cities rather than a full on tour. You can see the moment he realises it's more than he thought in the documentary on the Rome DVD set. If I remember correctly, there was the stillborn project circa 2003 to remount The Lamb with Peter and Steve. That would also not have been a full on tour but perhaps a dozen or two concerts in major cities around the world. When Pete wouldn't/couldn't commit they decided Steve's involvement was moot and started planning concerts with the 80s/early 90s version of Genesis. Phil was still under the impression this would be 20 concerts...not the 50 or so they ended up doing.

However it is also Phil who has shown the way for this upcoming tour....his "Not dead yet" tour was on and off for two and a half years. Taking time to rest between relatively short tour legs, it's pretty much a new concept and one that works really well for older artists or anyone who might want to see their family, for example.

As for Mike, I do not want to trash him. He's been in integral part of Genesis from the start and of The Mechanics for nearly 40 years. He helped write some of my favourite Genesis songs, and The Mechanics have a few really good ones that I like too....he was a phenomenal bass player in the 70s and I don't want to take anything away from that. But it does seem that Mike is the one who doesn't want to play the old material. Tony would probably happily do One For The Vine and even Hogweed if given the chance. I am beginning to think that after this is all put to bed, Tony could consider touring a show featuring his favourite music - Genesis and otherwise....assuming he doesn't feel like guesting with Steve. But then Tony isn't much of a performer. He'd probably be just as happy listening at home in his slippers. He's the one Genesis member who does talk about listening to the old Genesis albums.

Mike is probably more enthusiastic about the road, he's been touring with The Mechanics during the Genesis hiatus. He's never stopped making new music or touring. Tony has made his orchestral music and gained a lot of satisfaction from finding acceptance by many classical enthusiasts but hasn't toured. Phil took a long time out. Mike is the most "road ready". So it is not so surprising that he's encouraging the others. he's also specifically encouraging Phil, hopefully of the belief that touring is good for his old friend. Phil seems to come alive when he takes the stage. A little like Brian Wilson, perhaps being involved in making music is therapeutic for him.

Me, I'm just a lawn mower....I find mowing my grass is therapeutic!

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Thanks AB. I hope my point didn't come across as trashing MR, as that was absolutely not my point. Quite the contrary, having learned so many of his bass and 12-string parts, I have the utmost respect for his playing ability and he is, in fact, vastly underrated on both instruments. It was simply a series of observations from the interview. As you said, there are probably logical answers for their various levels of "excitement" about the tour at the moment.

As far as coming alive on stage, I've seen it many times... Many years ago, I participated in a Sirius XM Townhall interview of Roger Waters in NYC. On mic, his age definitely showed. He was severely myopic and obviously had pretty intense hearing loss, among other things. However, the next evening, on stage, it's as if someone had injected him with "super juice" lol. It's interesting but I guess 50 years on the road will do that to you. Take care, Andre.

Quote from Backdrifter

Will everyone please promise to not post setlist details in this thread, only in the setlist spoilers thread! I don't want to know until I'm sat in the Glasgow Hydro in 2 weeks time.

In fact, from the start of the tour I think I'll simply avoid this entire board altogether, just in case.

Welcome to the internet/social media age. I remember being totally surprised seeing them in '77, '78, etc., having little to no idea what they were going to play. Other than reading the music papers at the time (which rarely if ever revealed complete setlists), it was virtually impossible to know what a band would play. Now, in the era of attention deficit, everyone has to know everything, "now". How I miss the '70s.... And yes, avoid this board!

Quote from drw4d

I think that's a really valuable lesson, yes. But there's a difference between recognizing the value of what was done in the past, and reliving what you've done in the past by hanging out with it every night.

I certainly know that my first marriage and subsequent divorce contributed to who I am today (and hopefully helped make me a better husband this second time around). But I have no interest in hanging out with my ex-wife. Similarly, I'm sure the band can see the way certain songs were really influential in their growth as artists and as a band. But that doesn't mean they have any desire to play some of those songs ever again. And I don't blame them for that.

That may be a strong analogy as I don't necessarily equate life's relationships with songs (and I am a diehard musician) but that being said, I would concede to your argument IF Genesis was still a viable recording entity. For example, in the early '80s, I understood why they were so focused on the new material at that point and perhaps didn't want to wallow in the Gabriel era stuff. However, this is a pure nostalgia tour, as was 2007, so there really are no barriers as to what they could play (they have no record to promote or sell and that model has been dead ever since downloads reared their ugly heads). Of course, they can play whatever they want but I suspect Rutherford has a pretty strong say in the setlist given his general aversion for early '70s stuff. Playing a song that's nearly 42 years old (Duke stuff) is not that far removed form playing one that's 46 years old (Trick stuff), for example. All fine, just my opinion.

Quote from absinthe_boy

I know their attitudes to some of the older material have changed too. Those of us who remember the VHS "Genesis - A History", Phil clearly states that he's not exactly proud of some stuff from their past...that he's more proud of Invisible Touch than the prog songs. These days he's more enthusiastic about the older prog material, especially Supper's Ready.

Mike seems to have gone off a lot of the older material and prefers the sheen and gloss of the 80s songs. If you watch the 2007 interviews that went with the remasters, Tony certainly rediscovered some moments in Trespass that he'd forgotten. Of all of them I get the impression it is Tony who actually listens to the old albums. But clearly Phil has done some listening recently, he gave an interview where he was talking about how Get 'Em Out By Friday is almost a funky drum groove. I am certain that was not in the rehearsal material. I am equally sure it wasn't on Phil's 90s or noughties play list.

Whether that all results in them actually playing something they haven't since the 70s or early 80s is still a bit of a mystery. Moonlit Knight looks certain to appear in some form, but while it was dropped from 83 to 07, it is still something of a favourite on other tours. Didn't they do a bit of it on the CAS tour too?

I actually reckon they won't do IKWIL and Firth of Fifth this time out. The selections from Selling England will be Moonlit Knight and Cinema Show. I really doubt they'd do four songs from that album.

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I'm glad you said it AB, as I was thinking the exact same thing. Rutherford is the one who seems to have a pretty strong disdain of earlier material (ok, that might be strong wording) whereas Banks would play way more of it if he had the final say. I think Phil, as evidenced by his attendance of a Musical Box show (and playing one one song) several years ago has also come around to the earlier stuff. In fact (flame throwers coming my way), reading their body language in the BBC morning show interview, I got the distinct impression that Mike was the most gung-ho (by far) in doing this tour whereas Phil was not super enthused (understandably) and Tony was somewhere in the middle. Yes, this may be reading tea leaves but that's the impression I got.

Quote from pcontos

I think that it is one of the older songs that they all really like. I think that is part of the problem with them playing old material. I think it is hard for all three of them to agree on certain older songs. The ones that they do play, it seems that they all still feel strongly about. Most bands are critical about their past and Genesis is one of the most critical.

That's a really good interpretation. I still find it odd. Once we reach a "certain age" (cough, cough), we all look back at things we said, did, etc., at different points in our lives. And while we might cringe in certain instances, the reality is that history is not revisionist, i.e., we acted in a way that was consistent with who we were at that point in our lives. That doesn't make it any less valuable and shouldn't be looked down at as who we are today is the cumulative sum of those experiences. That's way too off-topic lol.

Quote from FirthOfFifth

Looking For Someone

Heathhaze

Small Talk

Vancouver

The Knife

The Brazilian

Medley: Who Dunnit / Illegal Alien / Going Out to Get You

Riding The Scree

Wot Gorilla

After the Ordeal

Medley: Pacidy / Sussudio / Afterglow

encore:

Back in NYC

Me and Virgil

Another Record

Enjoy !!

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Keep on toking lol!

One thing Genesis has always been good at is creating "flow" in their setlist (some bands are horrible at it) - though ending with Carpet Crawlers in '07 was a bit weird, despite their emotional attachment to the song. So expect a punch in the face as the opener and closer, whatever these might be. I also can't imagine that they won't include an older song in the encore to close that loop. The again, we'll all know soon! Take care.

Quote from MoonlitKnight

In the documentary you can hear the end of In That Quiet Earth transitioning into Afterglow. I’m guessing that will be plugged in between Cinema Show and Afterglow, as during the Mama Tour. I’m expecting TTT/IT as the set closers. For the encore I have a hard time imagining an encore that doesn’t include some older stuff (as with Carpet Crawlers in 2007). I think we are likely to get a mix for the encores—something like I Can’t Dance, DWTMK/Carpet Crawlers, Turn it on Again. I’m holding out hope the set begins with Abacab (or they launch into it right after Duke’s Intro, as they did with TIOA in 2007). The song I’m having the hardest time figuring out in terms of placement is Duchess. I just can’t imagine it without the lead in from BTL.

They could start Duchess with the Roland drum machine bit. It's a bit stark but it might work.

Quote from Old Henry

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Thanks for posting. My God, I feel even worse for Phil than I did. As someone who's been seeing them live since 1977, it's heartbreaking to see how physically beat up he is. I hope he gets through it and can enjoy it but there's a part of me that's thinking "why"? I think that all of you in the UK are fortunate in that you're likely to see an uninterrupted tour; I'm beginning, however, to have serious doubts about the North American tour's viability after a month or so on the road in the UK, the traveling involved in his state, etc. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a downer; the interview was sobering.

Quote from pcontos

I hope your right MoolitKnight. I thought the same thing when I heard Tony comment about "the middle bit" when TTT was playing in the background. I did see the screen with all the objects flying around though (money, telephones, etc.) and I didn't know what it was.

Usapcfan said it was Jesus He Knows Me, which makes sense as there is a middle section (kinda reggae) which does go back into the verse.

I was really hoping for the full TTT but really don't expect it. After I heard that comment and based on the fact that they are trying some different stuff, I thought who knows. If not the whole song, maybe a little more than just that first part, like they did with Ripples last time. The Instrumental part isn't that long and the build to the "You keep telling me I got everything" is the highlight of the whole song, in my opinion. The repeat of the verse and the end does go on a little long, although it completes it properly. I never liked the version in 1992 and it always felt that they turned this song into a rock anthem singalong, like We will rock You. It's like a throwaway just to get people to sing the catchy chorus.

The other song I'm really wondering about is Fading Lights. Tony said he "convinced" the other two to sing the first two verses. He said nothing about the instrumental which is so essential to that song, otherwise it is a little boring although beautiful. I would think that it would be played, at least some of it and transition into the Cinema Show. I'm not sure how much of it though since last time they only played the last two minutes of Duke's Travels in the medley. If it indeed starts the medley, it will be interesting to see "newer" material placed next to "older" even though they are all old now.

I'm so hoping for Abacab. It's a rock song and people love it and it is still played on classic rock radio here is the states. I don't think that they would do the edit version as indicated on the new compilation. If so, that's ridiculous. The best part live has always been the second part, although two drummers feature heavily in that part.

I'm still confused about the setlist. If I add up all the songs we absolutely know they rehearsed, its like 2.5 hours easy. I'm a little surprised that they still feel they have to draw 70% of the set from the last three albums. I mean, I love those albums and love most if not all of the songs but it is a little much. If I count correctly, 6 from Invisible Touch, 5 from We Can't Dance and 3 from Genesis. It really doesn't leave any room for any big surprises other than what we have heard already unless they drop some of these songs.

Daryl said in an interview that they tried some 70's songs but they sounded dated. I mean, no shit they sound dated. Nobody writes songs about little mythical creatures that disappear anymore. It's not really the point and there is really no reason to get embarrassed about that anymore. I can see when they were trying to be young and relevant back in the eighties and early nineties. I think that there also is a greater number of fans that are into the 70's stuff than during the 1986-1992 era since time has there music to be rediscovered over many years and it seems that magazines and documentaries always focus 60-70% of there story on the Peter years up until they became a three piece.

I'm certainly happy to see whatever they play since I love it and I know I sound like a complainer, but I guess I never understood why they struggle to embrace more of their past catalogue which is very rich and diverse. I can understand that it might feel like a different band to them since it was so long ago but I can't understand how they can't hear the beauty and magic of some of that earlier material.

Sorry for the ramble:)

Paul

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Thanks Paul. Don't worry about the rant. This is a ranting site lol. All kidding aside, many would agree with your post. The reality is that 8 studio albums were released in the 1970s and 4 in the '80s (2 in the '90s - one of which they wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole). The other reality is that the '80s albums probably outsold the '70s vinyls by a factor of 10, at least. That being said it's all old, dated music, if you go by the dates, which is a hard argument to put forth (the newest songs are 30 years old). I personally find IT as dated as any other album with the electronic drums and the "synths du jour". If you ask any prog fan to pick one song that best defines '70s prog Genesis, it would have to be Supper's Ready. Yet, it's unlikely that they'll play even a bit of it. I empathize with the juggling act that they need to engage in but I also have a hard time swallowing that they need to play "all the hits", especially as these songs are very old. Plus, they have no new material to promote; this is a nostalgia tour, pure and simple. That's my rant :).