Posts by StillCan'tDance

Inspired by a discussion elsewhere, I thought I'd devote a thread to that unsung instrument of Genesis, the guitar. While Genesis never seemed to showcase the guitar as much as, say, King Crimson, Yes or Pink Floyd, they still had their moments and it would be nice to discuss them, positively, here.

Ant Phillips was the first axe man in the band and his delicate twelve string playing is all over the first two albums like beans on toast. Phil has favourably compared the sound of early Genesis (specifically the sound the band had on Trespass) to one of his favourite bands, The Byrds. I've never heard anyone make that comparison before but listening back to some of the softer numbers, I can see what he means.

Striving beyond existing stagnant music forms, Steve Hackett single-handedly created sweep picking and two-handed tapping (something that would become prevalent in the rock bands of the eighties) as well as introducing an element of aggression to the band's music. On The Musical Box, The Return Of The Giant Hogweed and The Fountain of Salmacis he puts his stamp on the music of Genesis, giving the band a distinctive guitar sound. And he crowns Supper's Ready with a beautiful and restrained solo.

He continued to make significant contributions to the music of Genesis in his own inimitable style, crafting a Beatlesesque riff for I Know What I Like and reinterpreting Tony's lines on Firth Of Fifth into a sobbing solo. And while The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway didn't exactly find favour with him at the time, Steve's solo on The Lamia and his quirky playing on Counting Out Time remain stand-out moments.

Perhaps buoyed by the success of his first solo venture, Steve upped his game on A Trick Of The Tail and his playing is much more prominent on the record. Although he claims in the documentary Sum Of The Parts that he was finding less and less for the guitar to do in the music, it's hard to imagine Wind And Wuthering without his playing, whether it be in mimicking Tony's keyboard sound on The Eleventh Earl Of Mar or in the weird sounds he conjures up during In That Quiet Earth. He even throws in some shimmering lines during Wot Gorilla and who could ever overlook the acoustic guitar introduction to Blood On The Rooftops (for me, Hackett's finest hour with Genesis)?

Obviously, that's only part of the story but I despise lengthy posts!

Quote from Fabrizio

Well, yes, you are right. As long as you specify those guitar lines are celebrated by you, it is an opinion and as such to be respected. Otherwise it is just inaccurate.

That's a pretty fatuous remark, even for you.

Quote from Fabrizio

I completely and absolutely disagree that Daryl lifted Steve's solos. Their playing is really apples and oranges. Steve's playing and sensibility fit perfectly to the band's aesthetic. Daryl's not at all.

I couldn't agree less.

Quote from Fabrizio

They were not a guitar band in the early days they were even less so in the later days, when even Phil and Tony played less end edited themselves, refraining from showing-off and sticking to the basics. Celebrated guitar parts? By whom? I haven't heard many Genesis fans celebrating those and none of the critics or general audience ever paid attention to them. Don't take this the wrong way but I find you a bit biased in favor of those bits. You don't seem to care much for Steve's playing but are ready to extoll the virtues of Mike's? Come on……..

It's just an opinion. You have yours; I have mine.

Quote from Fabrizio

Even when they became more...Let's say accesible, I 've always thought of Genesis as quintessentially British. Perhaps, not as much as when the recorded SEBTP, when they dealt directly with Britishness but still ver British. it wasn't only the lyrics, no matter how much Peter and Phil loved black music, it was always filtered through them being very English. Daryl, although a terrific player is exactly not that. His sound, playing, style, feel, even his chops,, everything about him is profoundly American, as revealed by his delivery of the FoF solo when given a bit room to do his thing. Noting wrong with that of course, I love American music, particularly black music but it's a matter of identity and to me Genesis, at least the Genesis I got on board with really didn't need a jazz-rock fusion American guitarist. Steve had to struggle to get his guitar heard and when he left they decided not to replace him, it speaks volumes on what they thought of the guitarist role in the band. Given the material they released afterwards, I fail to see what substantial contribution he could have made to the band. The same I guess he made to Phil's records which was imo not really relevant. No legendary guitar parts to speak of there. He has been around for decades and I have a lot of respect for him but I have always regarded him as a hired gun and without wanting to belittle him , I think that's what he was.

Well, I think the addition of such a celebrated jazz fusion player was a profound improvement on the 'live' sound of Genesis. Any number of Hackett solos was lifted far beyond what he achieved by Daryl's playing. Not to mention the solos he added to The Lady Lies, Behind The Lines, It's Gonna Get Better and Jesus He Knows Me. My favourite guitarist is John McClaughlin and while Steve might claim that there were parts of Selling England that would "give Mahavishnu Orchestra a run for their money" Genesis really were never in the same league as that group.

While I agree that the Genesis of the early days was not really a guitarist's band, once Steve left Mike's more direct approach seemed to be given greater visibility. Deep In The Motherlode, Misunderstanding, Abacab, Like It Or Not, Home By The Sea, I Can't Dance and Driving The Last Spike all had celebrated guitar parts.

Quote from Fabrizio

It goes well beyond a single country, party and politics I believe. It's the rise of tribalism, racism, religious intolerance, the ignorance of the flat-earthers, feces-slingers, anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists loudmouths who seem to be taking over a bit everywhere.

I wish you were wrong. Sad to admit, you're right.

The MU, of which I am a member, encouraged their members to vote to remain in the EU because it would hurt our members who work abroad. I'd have voted to remain anyway, to be honest.

Quote from genesis1964

It certainly looks like the artwork associated with Steve Howe

Strange that he'd choose an artist so closely associated with another, more successful act.

Another attendee from the Manchester gig here. We saw the fracas from where we were sat and were suitably disgusted.

Apparently the boozed up morons said they didn't even like Genesis, that they'd just showed up to kick off.

Quote from Fabrizio

As loose as Tony can be LOL.

Well, he likes a drink. Chester said that it took a case of Heineken to loosen him up sufficiently whilst they were doing the Curious Feeling album.

Tony is a lot less intense these days, according to Phil.

Quote from Fabrizio

Chester perhaps but what would be the point when you have Phil? Daryl would make more sense but although is a fantastic player, I really don't like his sound and I don't think he is a good fit for Genesis music.

Well, like any premier musician, Chester has his own style and feel and, in that sense, would have made a great contribution to the Genesis sound. I love Daryl's playing on the Genesis and Phil Collins stuff but his solo albums leave me absolutely cold.

Quote from Noni

What bands has Chester been involved with as a serious player..... Just curious!!...  

How can you not even know this? Every self-respecting Genesis fan knows that Chester played with Zappa and Weather Report.

Such was the artwork, I thought this was something from Steve Howe when I first saw the advert: Broken Skies Outspread Wings

Quote from Backdrifter

You've reminded me of a 1979 interview with Stuermer in which he said "I'm going to be on the next album" so yeah at some point it was considered to the point where he was confident enough to say that.

I think it would have been wonderful to have had Daryl and Chester guesting on the albums; it would cement the favourable comments that Tony, Mike and Phil have made about them throughout the years.

I did like Peter's speech when he introduced Tony. Very self-effacing. And Tony seemed a little loose when he took the stage, too, which was nice to see.

As for the crazy times of the seventies, I recall an interview Phil gave to Q magazine in the nineties where he talked about the John Cale album on which he played and how John would do a few lines before going straight into the session. "It's been a while since you've been involved in crazy music" remarked the interviewer, earning a wistful "Yeah..." from the erstwhile drummer.

Quote from Backdrifter

His drumming at times on that album is phenomenal even by his already high standards.

Did he double-track the drums on some of the songs? Certainly Man of Our Times and Duke's Travels sounds double-tracked. Duke may have been the album where they'd strongly considered flying Daryl and Chester over, such was the high regard they had for the "new members" of Genesis. In the end, they decided that, practically, it wasn't a good idea. In the time it would take to get the two of them over from America, they could have already put down whatever extra guitar and drums they needed.

Quote from Fabrizio

New course album, their first, sound-wise still fresh and relevant. If it had had any good or extremely successful songs they would have played them but again, it is my opinion

And still eleven years old at the time of the We Can't Dance tour.

If you watch the documentary on the Abacab DVD, you can see what the band think of the album in terms of its success and what they think of the material.

Quote from Fabrizio

True; and that generally applies to any band. They have after all an album to promote, that's generally the reason for going on the road but in the spirit and logic of prioritizing the most recent material, an album like Abacab shouldn't be left out I guess. Again though, I freely admit that while acknowledge the extreme importance of the album, I don't think much of its material so I am most likely biased

Unless that band is Yes. Poor dears, no-one wanted to hear the later stuff and they've been reduced to some sad cabaret act. Both versions of the band!

By the time of the We Can't Dance tour, Abacab was eleven years old. Hardly qualifies as recent material, really.

Quote from Fabrizio

We are all different, we all cope with things differently and artists are no exception

Oh, but we are, dahling, we really are!

Just with regards to songs being dropped from set lists, I wouldn't read too much into it. When putting together a set list, Genesis always prioritised the most current material and then it was simply a question of what room they had left for other songs. When they did the set list for We Can't Dance, they played as much of the new material as possible and then the obvious choice was the stuff from Invisible Touch because it had been such a successful album and so many of the songs worked well in concert. They had to drop songs, otherwise the show would have been too long, so out went the old stand-bys Los Endos, In The Cage and Afterglow as well as a few other numbers that the band presumably felt had had their day. It wasn't out of disrespect to the albums upon which those songs appeared but you can't play songs from every album. It's just not possible.