Posts by Micklemus

PS - I can't stop the dorking right now...

The back on the Horizons CD states it's from an FM radio broadcast. Rubbish. There were no FM broadcasts from the Roxy, only a (barely listenable) AM broadcast of the 18th (late show). Most of the others, if not all (who knows what remains in the Genesis vaults?), were recorded by the roadcrew using ambience microphones, so they sound better than audience bootlegs (because of better quality microphones) but not quite as good as broadcast quality because they're not mixed with a feed from the mixing desk or multiple mikes on the equipment. At least that's my understanding.

Over and out!

Thank you for the heads up, I will check it out. That said, this particular Roxy show is not the best quality, unlike, say, 19 December 1973 (early show). With a little tweaking, that one could be polished up enough to become an official release. However, the 19th late show, along with a number of the Roxy recordings, suffers from an incomplete Supper's Ready - bad news to any Genesis fan. It's probably the best performance of the lot though, you can tell they wanted to finish their Roxy residency in style.

I've just looked on Amazon and I see from the reviews that Horizons has an incomplete Supper's Ready too, so I think it's going to be a recording of one of these gigs:

17 December 1973 (early)

18 December 1973 (late)

19 December 1973 (early or late)

I'll shut up right now. My bootleg dorkiness has surfaced and needs to disappear fast!

Listening to a lot of Elbow at the moment. My wife’s favourite band and next on our gig list.

There are times when they can annoy me for being too one-paced, but they’ve created some great pieces of music. High in the list at the moment is The Birds, a track which (to me anyway) feels influenced by their love for Genesis.

Same here. That piano sound makes you (me) think it could be something from ATTWT but longer and grander. It’s not though. It’s got different sections like classic Banks, but they don’t take you anywhere.

I’m not a fan of the sound production either.

It’s probably his most ambitious (non-classical) track outside Genesis but for me it feels like one that got away.

I fell ill over the weekend and couldn’t make it to Hammersmith. Gutted.

Yep, I got it on release and I liked it. My one and only disappointment was that they didn’t release the full shows.

I’d still like them to release more ‘official bootlegs’. There are some great recordings from the US, for example.

Quote from Backdrifter

Indeed, plus regarding inclusion of old stuff in the set I read a while ago that while planning the WCD tour PC suggested they do the whole Supper's Ready but it was vetoed mainly by Banks, who said "it's such a slog to get through".

PC always spoke warmly of the fun they - well, he - had doing The Waiting Room live. I bet he'd had loved them to throw that in occasionally and have a real blow. I'd have loved it too. Given how brilliantly they did the 70s stuff as time went on, imagine the 80s/90s Genesis letting rip like that.

This could become an ‘agreeathon’ but I couldn’t agree more!

Quote from Backdrifter

This reminds me of something that takes us on a tangent from all the above. I recall dismay from older "proggier" fans that the CAS tour didn't signal a sudden mass-return of 70s songs. I believe many of them thought it might have done for two reasons. First, that RW's voice isn't far from PG's on the vocal spectrum, with a certain kind of duskiness. Second, these fans clung to this absurd belief that what they saw as the 'poppier' more commercial trio material they disliked was Collins's "fault" and that with him gone, old stuff would flood back into the setlist. (Admittedly, RW would potentially sound good on FoF or the first bit of Cinema). But it highlighted how silly that attitude was and still is, with even some on this board maintaining that PC "took them in that direction." He didn't; all three of them did.

100%. Just look to their solo material for proof. If they were constrained within Genesis to be "poppy" because of Phil then their solo albums would have been an obvious outlet for something more adventurous, but it's not there.

For me it’s infinitely better than the original. I’m still no great fan of the song but he has at least given it some much-needed balls, some passion, some atmosphere, enough for me to listen again. The guitar solo is way better delivered too (sorry Mr Rutherford but…). Guitars are also more prominent generally and the synth chords are no more. Yay!

Top marks for effort there, Mr Wilson. Sorry to sound very back-handed, but this for me proves that it is possible to polish a brown sausage.

And thank you Will for posting. 🙏

Quote from Schrottrocker

There's only four songs that credit Ray as a co-writer. I wonder if 'Not About Us' is the only one out of these which he wasn't just responsible for the lyrics but for the music as well? That song always stood out for me, it shows what Ray might have added as a song writer, had he only had more chances.

Yes.

I remember reading a magazine interview with Tony and Mike while they were recording and they said they were looking at taking a darker turn and perhaps more of the long form stuff that older fans would be interested in. Given Ray's style (as we know it now) and his previous time in Stiltskin, I think he could have really helped bring this out, and done it in a way that wouldn't have traded on past glories, As it turned out however his contribution was very limited because he wasn't there from Day 1, and even if he was, I doubt that the other two (and Tony in particular) would have immediately let him go into whatever direction he wanted. Net result, and as you rightly note, was a very limited contribution.

As is probably obvious by now, I can't stand that album. I really really dislike it and I was beyond disappointed when it came out. However, Not About Us happens to be a track that I can tolerate - which signals to me that Ray could have brought something to the group that I would have liked at least. Not that my opinion counts for anything!! My point is that I am more of an "old" Genesis fan and to me there is a deeper feeling to Ray's work, which has been missing from Tony and Mike for years (apart from Tony's classical albums) so I think he could have given the band that magical 'something' if he had a fair crack of the whip. Fans of my kind, the 'proggier' ones, would have appreciated this, I think.

I'm certain that a second album would have seen them leap forwards but alas it never happened.

Quote from Trick of the Wuthering

I would love it if him and Steve did a joint tour. His vocals on Ripples and Carpet Crawlers are awesome.

I agree.

I don't have a downer on Ray. He is a talented writer with a good voice.

The problem for me during Ray's brief stint in Genesis wasn't him at all, it was the tragically awful material that he had to work with. The band had lost Phil's arrangement skills (an often unacknowledged talent of his) along with his obvious talents as a drummer and writer, which left a series of dull, unimaginative and sometimes cringeworthy meanderings which Ray was called in late to improvise some vocals over. If he was actually at the table as a proper writer and arranger, in there at the very beginning, Calling All Stations could have sent the band in an interesting new direction. Instead the album turned out to be something that I'd be embarrassed to use as a coaster, which was a first for me in relation to Genesis.

None of this was Ray's fault though. He just wasn't properly integrated within the group and the big shame for me was that there was no second album with him (and maybe even Drennan) having a proper seat at the writing table.

I like his solo work and I think the Genesis thing with Ray was a massive missed opportunity.

Good track and nicely positioned after the sadness of '32 Doors. Interesting also that this was an evolution of a very old track (The Light) and so it must have been brought to the table when they were trying to fill out The Lamb as a double album. It doesn't seem like that to me; it stands as one of the stronger pieces on the album.

I created my own mix of the Lamb ("As It Should Have Been") with the weaker/filler material taken out. This one is still in there, as for me that Side 3 run through to Anyway is easily as strong as the best parts of Sides 1 and 2.

Shame the band didn't didn't have more of these crunchier guitar-led tracks, particularly while Steve was in it.

Sorry, I should have expressed myself more clearly. What I meant was there wouldn’t be enough commercial appeal if they played a SET of the 1976-77 kind. Most of us here would love it but the more casual Genesis listeners would not.

Quote from IWishItWouldRainDown

You can read the whole article free in the link below.

Genesis' Steve Hackett: ‘Phil Collins doesn't deserve what’s happened to him’

(Source: The Daily Telegraph)

It's a very good read, thank you for posting.

I can understand if Steve feels some frustration. The Charterhouse Trio had stronger personalities and the glue that comes with growing up together, Phil was a great peacekeeper so found his place, but Steve was much more introverted and more of an outsider, yet at the same time he had a very distinctive sound that coloured the prog years. With these dynamics I can see why the others would view him as a man of his time, almost like a hired hand. I can also understand why Tony would view him as unsuited to play the pop trio material and I doubt Steve would want to do it anyway, although I'm sure he could have taken some pieces to a new level live - e.g. Abacab, Mama, Second Home, The Brazilian.

All that said, it cuts both ways as Daryl might be an outstanding guitarist but I don't enjoy his interpretations of the band's earlier material as much as when Steve was playing. However a reunion tour with Steve playing some parts and Daryl others just wouldn't have worked.

I'm rambling. I guess I'm just saying I can understand why Steve would feel the outsider but I also understand why a reunion involving Steve would have needed Peter as well, The band couldn't have done a four piece reunion focusing on 1976-77. The die-hard fans would have loved it and I'd have been front of the queue, but it wouldn't have been appealing enough to the wider public for it to be commercially worthwhile, and so Steve gets left out.

Big shame though.

Quote from Backdrifter

Yours incorporates elements that are mentioned earlier in the thread, such as interruptions and woodland locations - the latter have certainly featured in mine.

Bit harsh of your brother there.

He's actually the most mild-mannered bloke you could come across, so his reaction was certainly out of character.

Yes you're right, there are themes here. We'll have to dig into dream interpretations and see what they reveal.

I’ve found a dream thread to resurrect because of one I had last night.

Genesis had reformed for one huge final open air gig in some strange location on the edge of a forest. Phil was in rude health, Chester was there too and the stage set was similar to 2007 but grander. Anyway, the band was absolutely on fire, playing better than ever before, and then Phil announced, “we haven’t done this in a while” and moments later the opening bars of Suppers Ready started. But then it got weird because every couple of minutes during the first half Phil would shout “hold on, hold on”’and wave everybody to a halt before starting a stand up routine - “have you heard the one about…” and so it continued with them stuttering on surreally and much to our increasing annoyance.

“He’s the guaranteed eternal sanctuary… hold on…I’ve got one for ya’ about this bloke, you’ll like this…”

That is until they eventually got to “a flower” at which point Phil marched to the drum riser and out from the wings popped Peter Gabriel. The crowd went berserk and the rest of the gig was so good it was spiritual.

At the end I was in bits from a combination of the band finishing their career as rock gods and the realisation that my phone hadn’t worked so I had no record of it. I called my brother in frustration only to be told I was a complete muppet because the show had been broadcast on TV and radio round the world.

Feck knows where that came from or what it all means but it was a truly surreal Genesis dream.

Quote from OneForTheVine

See if you can hear me cheering on your bootleg then! 😄 I would have definitely been at that show.

Enjoy your show at the Hammersmith!

It was a good gig so you chose well!

Speaking of being heard on a bootleg, when Musical Box came over on the tour where they played their favourite Genesis pieces (2018) I was a little worse for wear at the Hammersmith show and can be heard on the bootleg shouting for Invisible Touch during the intro to Cinema Show. Sorry fellow attendees.

Superb cover band, they never fail to disappoint.

Quote from Backdrifter

What you and lawnmower said.

Seeing it on stage a couple of times in 1980 it sounded good and oh look how funny Phil is jumping around and twirling an imaginary moustache. But then, I was 14. In that sense, it's very much in that category of 'Things I Thought Were Good Because You Know, I Was 14' which I'm happy to leave there.

(NB: there are some things I liked at 14 and still do).

I liked the way you put that! Bang on the money.

That’s a whole new thread in itself - things I liked at 14 but don’t now…

I have a bootleg of them playing this set at the Keswick back in 2004. Great show. Blimey that's 20 years ago already.

Sadly the wrong side of the Atlantic for me but we'll be going to the Hammersmith show.