There are many interviews in which John indicated a preference for gutsy, straightforward rock 'n' roll, and yet he is also responsible for musically intricate songs like Because, which has some of The Beatles' most interesting harmony parts.
Posts by Dr. John
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Most of the paired strings are tuned to different notes. Somebody in the old forum posted a youtube link of a guy who showed the exact tuning and played the intro in the original way. I can't guess the tuning, I'm not a guitarist, but I know the lowest pair is tuned in an octave, the second pair in a fifth, one of the higher pairs in a sixth and the highest or second to highest is in unison. Anthony Phillips uses a lot of similar crazy tunings, which is what made me realize Mike did this too in The Cinema Show. I don't even know how that song can be played with a standard tuning. A cover band I saw perform that song played it with three guitars to make it sound like this...
Correct! Usually the pairs of strings on a 12-string are tuned in octaves or unison, even in alternative tunings. For The Cinema Show, Mike tuned two sets of strings not in octaves but in a fifth and a sixth as you noted. The second half of of the song he switches guitars to one in standard tuning. Here is an example of someone doing the intro in this tuning:
Your turn!
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Thanks. I had wondered why The Beatles hadn't achieved something like this, but then remembered that most of their singles didn't come from their albums, but were separate releases.
My question: 12-string guitar parts were a wonderful feature of many Genesis songs through to the late 70s. Mike in particular, used alternative tunings for his 12-string. For example on The Musical Box, he tuned the 3 highest pairs of strings all to F# (live was a slightly different tuning). For the first half of The Cinema Show, he did something particularly interesting with the tuning, very different from standard alternative tunings. What was unusual about his tuning for the first half of The Cinema Show? Bonus if you know the actual tuning (because he apparently has forgotten).
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I heard that they were the first band to have five singles from one album (IT) in the top 5 or 10, which is interesting since they were such an album-focused band until the 80s.
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I have never been the hugest fan of Van Halen as a band, mainly because I am underwhelmed by DLR as a vocalist and lyricist (SH is technically a better vocalist, but I still find him a bit ho hum). However I have always had a healthy respect for the musicianship of Eddie and Alex. While Steve Hackett was one of the pioneers of tapping on electric guitar, Eddie was definitely the one who took it into the stratosphere, along with a whole other bag of impressive tricks. And importantly, he also understood the value of when not to use the tricks. His solos are melodic, have dynamics, and are not just a demonstration of speed and agility. So he has been a bit influence on a generation of guitarists and it is sad to lose him.
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There are a number of long songs by Genesis that feel stitched together from other bits. Sometimes this doesn't work for me - The Battle of Epping Forest comes to mind. It does work for me in the case of Supper's Ready. There are certainly some bits that wouldn't work well on their own - How Dare I Be... would stray into boring if it were standalone, but it works as a link and contrast between the rollicking Ikhnaton... and the subsequent lurchy and silly Willow Farm..
Apocalypse through to As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs is clearly my favourite part. Apocalypse has obvious appeal from the rhythms, Tony's organ solo, and the great dynamic shifts and drama. ASAEIE is magnificent and majestic. As much as I love the emotional commitment of Peter in the original studio version, I tend to prefer Phil's vocal control in this section in the live versions. I also love the groove - so slow it almost feels like it might stop and yet it keeps on going. Chester does a magnificent job in this section in the live versions.
There are a few other bits that I really like. The unnamed link between Willow Farm and Apocalypse is particularly lovely, with the high tinkling guitar and flute/keyboard.
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Slightly off topic I know, but isn't it funny that so many of these tours which aren't "for the money" have such staggering tickets prices.
They might not need the money, and they might not be doing it for the money, but the ticket prices on the latest tour are staggering so SOMEBODY has said "we can charge an absolute fortune for these".
I haven't heard the band say this on this occasion, but the common excuse is "we don't have anything to do with ticket prices", which is a lame excuse IMO
These days, artists often need income from live performances because there is little income from streaming and the sales of the music itself (writers do get more from publishing royalties). So touring is important for them to earn money. However, tours are also very expensive to mount in terms of paying for all the crew, equipment, transportation, etc. So many huge tours only start to make a profit in the last shows of the tour, even with the exorbitant ticket prices.
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The word-play with words in a row that change only one sound?
From dad to dam to dum to mum, from mum to mud to mad to dad
...a dream of Mad Man Moon (I guess he must have been moon mood mad)
Ooo, that's a clever answer. Never even would have thought of that.
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Well, they are the longest songs on their respective album sides, but that seems too simple. They are also the last songs on their respective album sides - also seems too simple. I'm pretty sure Mike doesn't play cello on MMM, so it's not that.
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This is the question that has stumped us most so far. I can't even keep track of all the guesses!
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OK, I finally figured out one example. Mick Taylor played on several Ron Wood solo albums. I'll need to do more research to figure out other examples.
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I think the original premise of this thread is band members collaborating, who were never in the band at the same time. So the examples above of The Beatles and of The Eagles are different - those members were in the band at the same time. I was trying to look up if Bernie Leadon had ever collaborated with Joe Walsh or Timothy B. Schmidt, but came up with nothing (I know they toured together for the History of Eagles tour). Otherwise I can't come up with anything yet.
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I am slowly realising that I know very little about my favourite band.
Great question
I am learning lots of interesting things so far!
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Carry On Matron starred Bernard Breslaw as Ernie Bragg who later went on to play Cyclops ( that's Bernard Breslaw not Ernie Bragg who was fictional) in the fantasy Krull directed by Peter Yates who also directed the classic Bullitt staring Steve McQueen who starred in the fantastic The Great Escape and The Magnificent Seven both also starring Charles Bronson who starred in Death Wish which was directed by Michael Winner who also directed The 1983 re make of The Wicked Lady which had a soundtrack by Tony Banks who is also a member of Genesis.😁
That's like, what, 6-7 degrees of separation? I can't keep track.
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Thanks for the recs. I agree it is not earth-shattering, but it is certainly solid and enjoyable.
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When I suggested they'd both been truncated I wasnt thinking of the running time in fact, I was referring to them both having bits chopped out. In the case of CC99 isn't verse 4 not included? (I'm starting to doubt it now).
Anyway, thanks for allowing me that one. I'll try to come up with something.
Yes, I was assuming you meant that the verse had been chopped.
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Although I have been aware of Gram Parsons's Grievous Angel, I had not actually listened to it until recently. I was inspired after watching the Ken Burns documentary Country Music, which I highly recommend if you have 16+ hours to spare. It has introduced me to or given much more perspective on many artists. I liked the snippet I heard of Gram Parsons in the documentary and the album itself doesn't disappoint.
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Sorry for the delayed response; I've been offline for a few days.
Anyway, I'm not sure I know how to respond because a couple of you have hinted at the correct answer but I haven't seen it stated quite correctly.
So here's a big hint: The things that hint at the correct answer are the mentions of (1) WOTS as a single; and (2) Carpet Crawlers 1999.
Didn't Backdrifter already get this in terms of both being rerecorded as singles in shortened versions?
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This might be a reach, but each was the last song on the 2 medleys played during the ATTOT tour (TLLDOB/Windshield/Carpet Crawlers) and (It/Watcher)...
Ooo, very clever!
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Stilted, mannered movements certainly form a big part of her live act for sure but I don't think of it as attempted coolness rather than an artifice in the same way flower masks and surreal stories are.
I never got the impression that St. Vincent tries to be "cool". She does like changing personas and playing with the image she presents, similar to Bowie, Madonna, etc. But I find that as an artist overall she has a lot of integrity. I don't actually like listening to everything she has done, but I do have significant respect for her work.