Posts by BillysNumber

Quote from Dr. John

What I don't understand is how Tony went many years picking really great keyboard sounds and then lost his touch in later years. For the first 15 years, he wasn't just sticking with old equipment. He would get new keyboards and then use some really nice new sounds. While the sounds he used on the IT album were very much of the moment, I think they were good choices and fit those songs (e.g., on The Brazilian).

On WCD I liked some sounds, e.g., the "elephant" and the backing chords in No Son of Mine, all of Fading Lights. And then he picked very underwhelming ones, like the whole instrumental for Living Forever.

His picks for sounds on the 2007 tour were also questionable.

RE: the first paragraph, I personally felt that his keyboard sounds in the 70's material was actually somewhat limited. Back then they were very defined: Varied mellotron sounds early on-mostly in the PG era but into W&W...the rock organs - those followed him from the beginning, straight thru Duke. Then there was the choir sounding chords for a few albums. As for the lead synthesizer sounds, those were also more or less the same, just programmed differently-with a flatter or brighter sound, different amounts of slide effect, etc. They were all used to great effect of course, but those were basically all of the sounds he used in the 70's for the most part.

Then in the 80's, the synth sounds became VERY much-as you mentioned-of the time, appropriate for the songs and again used to great effect, but I recognized many of those exact sounds on songs by other 80's artists. More to fill the space and accompany, than to create a separate part or solo.

Then we get to WCD. Different synth tech had been released, lots of different sounds and effects that hadn't been heard before. Tony utilized these new sounds very effectively, and IMO that's why WCD sounds like nothing they (or many others at the time) had done before. Some sound choices were hits, and some were misses, but IMO that is less about simply the choices Tony made with his synthesizers, and more on the choices of the band as a whole.

Your comment re: the Turn It On Again Tour synthesizer choices however, I do FULLY agree with! I always thought it was kind of lazy to use the EXACT same lead synthesizer sound for literally all of his songs (i.e. In the Cage, Firth of Fifth, Follow you Follow me, Ripples, Los Endos), and some of the background chords or organ sounds in the older material lacked a certain power that had been displayed with his choices on previous tours (i.e. In the Cage, Afterglow, Firth of Fifth).

Hold on My Heart is IMO some of TB's most atmospheric and effectively mood-setting keyboard playing of almost any Genesis song! Simple from a technical standpoint, but beautifully full chords and background sounds create a keyboard part that is more like...a feeling, than a musical performance!

Tony's keyboard sound choices and overall chords and synth work are one of the main reasons WCD is my favorite Genesis album. As mentioned, it all just sounds so much different than anything else they had done-and I like that!

I do acknowledge that Tony's talent specifically was more on display during the 70's era, but if we're not just speaking from a technique standpoint, I felt the different sounds he used across the whole WCD album were unique in comparison to many other Genesis albums. Much of the synthesizer sounds used throughout the 70's were very similar (due in part to the more limited choices of course), and I agree in the 80's-particularly with Abacab, Genesis and Invisible Touch-the synths have a very distinct (and admittedly common for its time) pop-synth sound. When it comes to WCD however, the sounds Tony used were completely different-and IMO just gave all of the songs so much of their own character!

Currently I'm listening to a lot of Abacab. I have long since had the half-speed vinyl version, but I've recently considered getting the original versions on vinyl, to experience what those are like. So I started with the original of Abacab, and I'm listening back and forth to compare the differences.

I'm not sure which version I like better yet-but I'm leaning towards the original, which feels richer and punchier, and has more of an "analogue presence" compared to the 2018 version-which in contrast seems very much more bright and clear in the treble range, but at the expense of everything else the original offers. I'll have to try out some other originals to be sure which I prefer I guess...

After thinking about it for a while, I actually remembered that I'm planning on eventually collecting the original vinyl releases of the Genesis albums. I currently have the 2018 half-speed versions but I thought it would be nice to have the originals too, in order to experience them in different ways. Who knows-I might end up enjoying the originals better, and decide to sell my half-speed versions at some point?

Ahhhh, the fun of collecting!

The reason I bring this up is that if I'm going to eventually have originals of the albums anyway, I don't really see the need in getting this release - aside from CC '99, and I'm debating whether that alone would be worth it. So I guess we'll see.

Quote from The Hogweed

I stopped collecting vinyl. And I don't regret this - all those re-issues, colored vinyl editions ... and the pricing. Bloody expensive hobby.

I don't know....? I've found some NM or VG+ rated records - older AND newer - on Discogs, that sound and look great but are under $25-$30 USD (which isn't expensive IMO). I agree if you want more than just one record at a time it can get expensive...but IMO if I'm going to order out for dinner and spend upwards of $35 USD on just myself, I might as well put that towards something that lasts-like a record or even two, depending on what I'm looking for. (i.e. I've been ordering a lot of the 7" singles, in order to have the b-sides, and those are as little as $6 depending on where you look.)

Regarding the versions on the Hits release, After looking at the tracklist, I am inclined to think that it IS the originals-simply cos I don't think the full 7 minute + version of Abacab can fit on the side it's on with I Can't Dance, FYFM, Hold on my Heart and IKWIL all on there. The edit definitely could though! It's not definitive evidence-but IMO it is logical...

I really enjoyed this release when it first came out in 1999, partially cos it had the edited versions of Abacab and Tonight Tonight Tonight-and of course Carpet Crawlers '99.

I felt it was a pretty fair representation of the most generally successful parts of their catalogue, particularly when trying to fit it all on one convenient disc. I suppose if they would've not had Carpet Crawlers there may have been room for something like The Knife, Watcher of the Skies, or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway-which would widen out the coverage of all eras abit. But I actually loved the new version of Carpet Crawlers. I also really liked the cover and sleeve note design.

If this release is the same versions as the 1999 release (aka not the remixes), then I will get this. Otherwise I'm happy with my half-speed remaster versions of the albums. Just having Carpet Crawlers '99 on vinyl alone would not be enough of a reason for me to get it.

Quote from Phil Morris

It does have an "incentive": book and poster (in addition to the box itself). I'm not justifying it; just pointing out the "extras" aren't musical.

LOL I was totally telling myself after I made that post "you should probably edit and add a disclaimer of 'besides the poster and book'..." HAHAHAHA!!

I did actually mean musical incentives LOL!

Quote from Ashley

My choice:

Can't turn back the years

We fly so close

Can't find my way

I always forget about Can't Find My Way, but when I hear it I always think how great of a PC song it is!

Indeed. I'm surprised it wouldn't have some sort of "incentive," in the way of certain material exclusive to the boxset. Otherwise, it's just simply buying all of the release formats. If I wanted that I'd just have done it.

To each their own I guess.

Has there been any specific info regarding what will be included in the boxset, song-wise? Any live material, or perhaps unreleased songs?

I would hope any as-of-yet unreleased songs would not be exclusive to the boxset-cos I can't really afford to spend the $$$$ it will be just for a few new songs....?

I would say I prefer the Boxset remixes. I think they sound great in 5.1 Surround sound, but I acknowledge lots of people may not care about such setups. The CD versions of these do sound a bit...loud, but IMO any compression issues only really exist on a few specific songs, just on the blue box. I have heard original versions and IMO they sounded weak and full of noise. The '94 remasters removed the noise, but IMO also added a kind of 'muddiness' to the overall sound.

The 2007 remixes added a sense of clarity and depth, where vocals and background elements came thru more clearly. Regrettably some things were lost (like the flutes on IKWIL, or the mixing of the fade-out of Misunderstanding). But there are also several things added that give the songs new perspective; like certain backing vocals or percussion that was not audible before. As for the drums, admittedly it depends on personal preference. The drums in the originals (and 94 DE's) have more...punch, but in the remixes they have more tonal depth and sound less...flat. Examples would be: Undertow, behind the lines or Abacab. IMO another benefit of these remixes is that the soundscape is widened and instruments are given more room to breathe in the mix.

I mostly listen to these versions on the 2018 half-speed mastered vinyl releases. I've never heard these albums sound better! IMO the half-speed vinyl releases are the best way to listen to these remixes-they're amazingly balanced, with a brightness and depth which I've never heard on other versions.

Admittedly the choice of version is very subjective, and there's lots of different preferences on which versions people prefer-which is understandable. But every time I take a moment to listen to one of the previous versions-and THEN come back to the remixes (especially on vinyl), I always end up picking these, as it's the version that sounds most enjoyable to my ears.

Genesis has definitely mastered the art of the opening song-that's for sure! I don't know an album that DOESN'T have an amazing opening song! IMO the best three are (in no particular order)

Down and Out

Dance on a Volcano

Behind the Lines

although 11th Earl of Mar and The Lamb... are also amazing.

If I had to pick just one, I'd go with.........Dance on a Volcano. It's just such an epic opening, and speaks to the fans at large "We are Genesis-and we are STILL here, as strong as ever!"

Weakest ones (and they're NOT weak, just not as effective as openers) would be: Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Abacab and Invisible Touch (I've always felt that either Tonight Tonight Tonight would make a way better opener).

It's great to see so many (includign myself) put We Fly So Close as their favorite - or at least included it! It is one of my top five Phil Collins songs. One of his most atmospheric, and definitely doesn't get the credit it deserves!

Quote from FeelItComing

My daughter doesn't listen to CDs at all. She watches lyric videos on YouTube. She doesn't even watch the actual videos (e.g. she likes Games Without Frontiers, but doesn't watch the official video). I assume she sometimes listens to music on her phone.

I'm going to sound old here, but I do agree that some of the things kids "these days" watch on YouTube and TikTok really baffles me; Both my sons will spend hours watching youtube videos of OTHER kids playing video games LOL! Meanwhile, my daughter (who is very "arts and crafty") will sit and watch videos of moms packing fancy lunches for their kids, or making dollhouses out of shoeboxes or something-for as long as we'll let her watch!

Then again, all their boring dad watches on Youtube is concert videos and 'how the ______ war started' type stuff-so I guess I'm not much better HAHAHA!

Quote from thewatcher

I'm 42 and avidly attached to my physical media (I recently set up a VCR 😆). That said, I stream a lot for convenience - mostly while commuting - and I find it excellent for discovering new music, along with the local college radio station. If I find something I like on streaming I'll typically go and buy it then.

It may also be a consequence of my browsing habits, but I keep seeing articles online about some sort of revival of physical media, usually vinyl, CDs and DVDs, but even audio cassettes. However, I don't know the actual data and suspect the articles are hyping a small increase from a low baseline, or possibly misinterpreting/misrepresenting an increase in absolute numbers that hides a declining proportion of sales. For example one of the Taylor Swift albums sold more copies on vinyl in whatever year it was (2021 say) than the top 100 selling vinyl albums in 2011, but likely streamed a gajillion more times than that.

Along the same lines, I read articles decrying the steady "enshittification" of streaming services; content withdrawn or moving to another platform, introduction of ads on free tiers etc. This rings true to me.

This is me as well - I just turned 43, and a couple years ago I got into vinyl. At first for sound quality reasons, but over the two years it has also become for nostalgic reasons-as I listen to all the music my parents did, and NOW I'm listening to it on the FORMAT they did LOL!

As for TV, we went all-streaming about a year ago and are loving it-although it's slowly becoming more and more like cable anyway. But I still have an extensive blu ray collection, as I am a bit picky with the HD visual (with no signal degradation) and surround sound audio quality of my favorite movies-so I will always watch those thru physical media.

But I agree, I feel like in this fast paced world, more and more people are valuing the concept of slowing down, and taking time to listen to and appreciate their music more-and enjoying ways that they can physically connect to their music. For some younger people, they've never experienced that before-so it's understandable how they could find a new and tangible way of enjoying media enjoyable. My kids (middle school age) are just completely fascinated by my record collection and player, and the idea that the music is all stored on that big black disc LOL!

BTW: "enshittification" HAHAHAHAHA!! I'm totally going to use that word LOL!

Quote from Wayne

I really don’t understand why whoever does these re issue campaigns doesn’t look into reissuing all of the back catalogue of the 2007 stereo reissues or, even better transferring those three boxes to blu ray and releasing it all on one nice package. They could fit everything I would think on 3 - 5 Blu-ray Discs maybe less than what was on the green/red and blue sets. they could make it even better by including the large Genesis book in a square shape to match the usual super deluxe box sets and I’d be a happy camper! - they could gladly take £150 - £175

Of my money now!. Will it happen no chance!!. Something like a Pineapple Thief Earbook style would be something to appreciate. But I doubt anything like this will happen not within the next 5 years!. Why they don’t I find puzzling for such an iconic band it’s such a shame.

RE: The highlighted, I believe they are actually doing that aren't they? On the main news page there's that article that their reissuing all the albums. Albeit not with the extras.

Honestly at this point, I'm pretty happy with what I have: the 2018 half-speed vinyl reissues. I know the quality does have some subjectivity across the fandom, but IMO they sound amazing on vinyl. Those take the remixes and between the vinyl format and the half-speed mastering, opens up and balances the sound. IMO this is the way the boxset stereo mixes SHOULD have sounded.

Having not become a Genesis fan until the mid 90's when I was in middle school, the ''94 remasters are what I was more or less 'introduced to' for their back catalogue-and I always did feel those sounded a bit muddy, and in places 'smashed together.' So I was happy when the boxsets came out. IMO those remixes-despite some compression issues on certain songs in the blue boxset-brightened, deepened and gave all of the songs more 'room to breathe.' Just when I thought that was good, I then got into vinyl two years ago and after listening to the vinyl versions I was blown away! Genesis, W&W, SEBTP, Duke, all of the albums had this richness, balance and expanded dynamic range that I'd never experienced before with Genesis' material!

So as much as I would love some new material from them, the only re-issues I will ever get is if they someday release remastered versions of the ORIGINAL mixes of all these albums-and I'm sure it'd be a new experience all over again.

Genesis, the "shapes" album.

I regard this one as one of my favorites, but I only listen to it once in a great while. But every time I put it on, I'm reminded how much I enjoy it. It's just so different sounding from any of Genesis' other material-perhaps their most raw and "edgiest" sounding record.

Quote from WinstonWolf

I believe the problem with The Mama Tour is they don't have access to the original camera film, only the videotape master, which would impossible to get an actual HD product from.

The Invisible Touch Tour was filmed on HD video tape, which allowed (once they found a vintage machine to read the tape) an HD video source to work with. If they made a new digital master when they transferred the tape for the white box set a BluRay would be possible.

As far as I know the problem with The Way We Walk and Serious Hits Live is they were filmed on standard definition video tape, so there is no way to get a true HD video from the original footage. In these days of AI upscaling I suppose anything might be possible, but someone would have to be monetarily interested in taking on the work.

Admittedly I don't know much about HD conversion...but if standard def tape can't be converted to HD, then how were so many other media able to be given a digitized (and subsequent 1080p) treatment? Surely the Genesis and Phil Collins concert footage isn't the only video footage out there that used this difficult format-yet there have been lots of other productions-both concerts and other media-that were able to be upscaled or digitized, coming from all kinds of different sources?

What was the Three Sides Live film originally filmed with? Also: What was the original format of that Genesis Bataclan 4K remaster that has been floating around lately? I can't imagine that having been filmed with something other than standard def video (as it was in 1973), and that release looks amazing! IMO if such a thing could be done with THAT release, I don't see why ones that are decades newer couldn't also...?

Quote from last-domino

That's it! And I doubt anyone is wiling to pay the bills to do the job. Which is a shame really. Wembly, No Ticket, Way we walk... plenty of stuff worth rereleasing in HD. Even First final farewell tour. Let alone When in Rome, which IS available in HD.

As I recall, they DID release the Three Sides Live concert (with all the interviews) as a blu ray...I wonder why did they stop there? I know PG released his concerts in blu-ray, at least the older ones (before Up)...if they thought that was worth it, I'd imagine there'd be just as big a market for Genesis' concert releases-if not bigger. I would LOVE to see Lyceum, Wembley, TWWW and even Phil's Seriously Live in Berlin in 1080P!!