Posts by Joey

Quote from Thelawnmower

Having said that, if and when Cherry Red get their version out it will be nice to hear the unadorned version as well, if that's what they do.

I'm looking forward to it, too. And I agree with your take on the orchestration and brass.

I don't think this is in Cherry Red's plans but I would have loved it if the new release was done similar to Ant's Geese and the Ghost Release with 4 discs: 1) the unadorned version remixed; 2) the original version remixed with the band/vocals and strings fully integrated (rather than separated) into the 2 channels; 3) A new surround mix; 4) Outtakes and tracks like the longer version of Image Blown Out with the extra verse and the versions of Silent Sun and Where The Sour Turns To Sweet with added drums.

Quote from Backdrifter

What the fuck has the American electorate done.

This is even worse than I thought.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I liked a suggestion I saw this morning. Biden should resign before January due to health issues, making Harris the 47th President and the first female US President. The added bonus would be Trump having to redo everything he's already printed with the words "47th President."

From Heather Cox Richardson this morning is this ...

Today the Trump family posed for a post-election photo. Missing from the group was former first lady Melania Trump. Joining the family was billionaire Elon Musk...

Part 2

Pundits today have spent time dissecting the election results, many trying to find the one tweak that would have changed the outcome, and suggesting sweeping solutions to the Democrats’ obvious inability to attract voters. There is no doubt that a key factor in voters’ swing to Trump is that they associated the inflation of the post-pandemic months with Biden and turned the incumbents out, a phenomenon seen all over the world.

There is also no doubt that both racism and sexism played an important role in Harris’s defeat.

But my own conclusion is that both of those things were amplified by the flood of disinformation that has plagued the U.S. for years now. Russian political theorists called the construction of a virtual political reality through modern media “political technology.” They developed several techniques in this approach to politics, but the key was creating a false narrative in order to control public debate. These techniques perverted democracy, turning it from the concept of voters choosing their leaders into the concept of voters rubber-stamping the leaders they had been manipulated into backing.

In the U.S., pervasive right-wing media, from the Fox News Channel through right-wing podcasts and YouTube channels run by influencers, have permitted Trump and right-wing influencers to portray the booming economy as “failing” and to run away from the hugely unpopular Project 2025. They allowed MAGA Republicans to portray a dramatically falling crime rate as a crime wave and immigration as an invasion. They also shielded its audience from the many statements of Trump’s former staff that he is unfit for office, and even that his chief of staff General John Kelly considers him a fascist and noted that he admires German Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler.

As actor Walter Masterson posted: “I tried to educate people about tariffs, I tried to explain that undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes and are the foundation of this country. I explained Project 2025, I interviewed to show that they supported it. I can not compete against the propaganda machines of Twitter, Fox News, [Joe Rogan Experience], and NY Post. These spaces will continue to create reality unless we create a more effective way of reaching people.”

X users noted a dramatic drop in their followers today, likely as bots, no longer necessary, disengaged.

Many voters who were using their vote to make an economic statement are likely going to be surprised to discover what they have actually voted for. In his victory speech, Trump said the American people had given him an “unprecedented and powerful mandate.”

White nationalist Nick Fuentes posted, “Your body, my choice. Forever,” and gloated that men will now legally control women’s bodies. His post got at least 22,000 “likes.” Right-wing influencer Benny Johnson, previously funded by Russia, posted: “It is my honor to inform you that Project 2025 was real the whole time.”

Today, Trump campaign press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Trump would launch the “largest mass deportation operation” of undocumented immigrants, and the stock in private prison companies GEO Group and CoreCivic jumped 41% and 29%, respectively. Those jumps were part of a bigger overall jump: the Dow Jones Industrial Average moved up 1,508 points in what Washington Post economic columnist Heather Long said was the largest post-election jump in more than 100 years.

As for the lower prices Trump voters wanted, Kate Gibson of CBS today noted that on Monday, the National Retail Federation said that Trump’s proposed tariffs will cost American consumers between $46 billion and $78 billion a year as clothing, toys, furniture, appliances, and footwear all become more expensive. A $50 pair of running shoes, Gibson said, would retail for $59 to $64 under the new tariffs.

U.S. retailers are already preparing to raise prices of items from foreign suppliers, passing to consumers the cost of any future tariffs.

Trump’s election will also mean he will no longer have to answer to the law for his federal indictments: special counsel Jack Smith is winding them down ahead of Trump’s inauguration. So he will not be tried for retaining classified documents or attempting to overthrow the U.S. government when he lost in 2020.

This evening, Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán posted on social media that he had just spoken with Trump, and said: “We have big plans for the future!”

This afternoon, Vice President Kamala Harris spoke at her alma mater, Howard University, to concede the election to Trump.

She thanked her supporters, her family, the Bidens, the Walz family, and her campaign staff and volunteers. She reiterated that she believes Americans have far more in common than separating us.

In what appeared to be a message to Trump, she noted: “A fundamental principle of American democracy is that when we lose an election, we accept the results. That principle as much as any other distinguishes democracy from monarchy or tyranny, and anyone who seeks the public trust must honor it. At the same time in our nation, we owe loyalty not to a president or a party, but to the Constitution of the United States, and loyalty to our conscience and to our God.

“My allegiance to all three is why I am here to say, while I concede this election, I do not concede the fight that fuels this campaign, the fight for freedom, for opportunity, for fairness and the dignity of all people, a fight for the ideals at the heart of our nation, the ideals that reflect America at our best. That is a fight I will never give up.”

Harris urged people “to organize, to mobilize and to stay engaged for the sake of freedom and justice and the future that we all know we can build together.” She told those feeling as if the world is dark indeed these days, to “fill the sky with the light of a billion brilliant stars, the light of optimism, of faith, of truth and service,” and to let “that work guide us, even in the face of setbacks, toward the extraordinary promise of the United States of America.”

This is a long read and it will probably terrify you if you aren't already, but it's also an important read. Heather Cox Richardson is an American History Professor at Boston College. She is not affiliated with any political party but calls herself a Lincoln Republican.

It's too long for one post so I will post it in two.

Heather Cox Richardson

November 6, 2024 (Wednesday)

Yesterday, November 5, 2024, Americans reelected former president Donald Trump, a Republican, to the presidency over Democratic candidate Vice President Kamala Harris. As of Wednesday night, Trump is projected to get at least 295 electoral votes to Harris’s 226, with two Republican-leaning states still not called. The popular vote count is still underway.

Republicans also retook control of the Senate, where Democrats were defending far more seats than Republicans. Control of the House is not yet clear.

These results were a surprise to everyone. Trump is a 78-year-old convicted felon who has been found liable for sexual assault and is currently under indictment in a number of jurisdictions. He refused to leave office peacefully when voters elected President Joe Biden in 2020, instead launching an unprecedented attack on the U.S. Capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes, and said during his campaign that he would be a “dictator” on his first day in office.

Pollsters thought the race would be very close but showed increasing momentum for Harris, and Harris’s team expressed confidence during the day. By posting on social media—with no evidence—that the voting in Pennsylvania was rigged, Trump himself suggested he expected he would lose the popular vote, at least, as he did in 2016 and 2020.

But in 2024, it appears a majority of American voters chose to put Trump back into office.

Harris and her running mate, Minnesota governor Tim Walz, offered a message of unity, the expansion of the economic policies that have made the U.S. economy the strongest in the world in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, and the creation of an “opportunity economy” that echoed many of the policies Republicans used to embrace. Trump vowed to take revenge on his enemies and to return the country to the neoliberal policies President Joe Biden had rejected in favor of investing in the middle class.

When he took office, Biden acknowledged that democracy was in danger around the globe, as authoritarians like Russian president Vladimir Putin and China’s president Xi Jinping maintained that democracy was obsolete and must be replaced by autocracies. Russia set out to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) that enforced the rules-based international order that stood against Russian expansion.

Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, who overturned democracy in his own country, explained that the historical liberal democracy of the United States weakens a nation because the equality it champions means treating immigrants, LGBTQ+ individuals, and women as equal to men, thus ending traditionally patriarchal society.

In place of democracy, Orbán champions “illiberal democracy,” or “Christian democracy.” This form of government holds nominal elections, although their outcome is preordained because the government controls all the media and has silenced opposition. Orbán’s model of minority rule promises a return to a white-dominated, religiously based society, and he has pushed his vision by eliminating the independent press, cracking down on political opposition, getting rid of the rule of law, and dominating the economy with a group of crony oligarchs.

In order to strengthen democracy at home and abroad, Biden worked to show that it delivered for ordinary Americans. He and the Democrats passed groundbreaking legislation to invest in rebuilding roads and bridges and build new factories to usher in green energy. They defended unions and used the Federal Trade Commission to break up monopolies and return more economic power to consumers.

Their system worked. It created record low unemployment rates, lifted wages for the bottom 80% of Americans, and built the strongest economy in the world in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, setting multiple stock market records. But that success turned out not to be enough to protect democracy.

In contrast, Trump promised he would return to the ideology of the era before 2021, when leaders believed in relying on markets to order the economy with the idea that wealthy individuals would invest more efficiently than if the government regulated business or skewed markets with targeted investment (in green energy, for example). Trump vowed to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations and to make up lost revenue through tariffs, which he incorrectly insists are paid by foreign countries; tariffs are paid by U.S. consumers.

For policies, Trump’s campaign embraced the Project 2025 agenda led by the right-wing Heritage Foundation, which has close ties to Orbán. That plan calls for getting rid of the nonpartisan civil service the U.S. has had since 1883 and for making both the Department of Justice and the military partisan instruments of a strong president, much as Orbán did in Hungary. It also calls for instituting religious rule, including an end to abortion rights, across the U.S. Part of the idea of “purifying” the country is the deportation of undocumented immigrants: Trump promised to deport 20 million people at an estimated cost of $88 billion to $315 billion a year.

That is what voters chose.

Quote from foxfeeder

As an only child, married to someone with 6 siblings (1 deceased, 3 we never have contact with) I can say siblings are overrated. You are not alone in your situation, there is another (now inactive) member here who doesn't speak to his for exactly the same reason as you.

Quote from Backdrifter

I completely get what Joey means. In your place I too would be deeply unnerved by how close they're polling. I'm happy to be able to say I simply can't imagine that situation with my family so I can understand how horrible it is for you Joey.

Thank you for your understanding and support. I've been struggling with this for a while and your words help. At least for the time being, I need to disengage from my siblings.

Quote from Backdrifter

But for more moderate voters to not be turning against him en masse... it's depressing.

If he's elected again, which currently can't be ruled out, he will be even worse.

Living here, it's frightening. That the race between Harris and Trump continues to be this close, I am depressed, scared, angry, and disappointed as are most of the people I know who are still sane. What I am struggling with even more is that all 3 of my siblings are voting for him. It's pointless to try and talk to them about it. They think I'm the crazy one. They believe the propaganda that all the mainstream media is lying to them, that the US government is totally corrupt, that trump is not part of the system and therefore can't be controlled or corrupted by it. He is the only one who can fix the system. It's even worse when they bring Jesus into the discussion.

All of that has been around since 2016, when I could maybe understand people falling for it and voting for him (if and only if I was being generous). But after his miserable response to the COVID pandemic as President, after the Big Lie of the stolen election in 2020 and all 62 failed court cases to overturn the election, after the Jan 6, 2021 insurrection and all its ugliness, after his immature behavior on Biden's inauguration day, after his 34 felony convictions, after all the foul, disgusting, and threatening things he has said since, not to mention his increasingly bizarre behavior, I can't understand nor forgive anyone voting for him this time.

I assume as a Democrat I am expected to be all about love and inclusion, but right now I hate my siblings.

1. When did you buy Selling England By The Pound (or have received it as a gift)?

October 1973; When I bought it at a Wherehouse Record Store in Pomona California, the stack of brand new import albums were still in the shipping box sitting on the floor waiting to be put in the bin. The box next to it had Genesis Live. I only bought SEBTP that day.

2. How old were you when Selling England was released?

Sweet Sixteen

3. Was Selling England your first Genesis album? If not, how many Genesis albums did you own before getting Selling??

No, I already had three (Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme & Trespass, purchased in that order)

4. If you had to rank all Genesis albums, where does Selling England stand?

Varies from first to third depending on my mood.

5. Which track was your favourite when you bought the album?

DWTMK

6. Which track is your favourite today?

DWTMK

7. Which track do you think is the best track on the record despite your own taste?

DWTMK

8. How many versions of the album have you bought / owned? (Vinyl, CD, Remaster, Cassette, SACD etc)

2 vinyl copies, 8-track tape, original CD release, 1994 CD Remaster, 2008 CD & DVD Remix

Quote from choccy

Genesis also sold their catalog as well but not mentioned, so did they actually make even more?

The article on the Forbes website attributes the sale of their catalog as the main reason for Genesis topping the list.

Forbes

It looks like I screwed up and confused "No Admittance" with "Opening Night." No Admittance aired on the Disney channel and VH1 but I don't have dates.

Quote from MoonlitKnight

Does anyone recall where this first aired in the US? I have a clear recollection of watching it on the VERY TINY television set I owned at the time but can’t recall on which US network it aired.

It aired on the ABC network, June 13, 1992 at 10PM.

Bought Foxtrot June of 1973 when I was 16. I knew nothing about the music or the band the first time I listened to it. I randomly played side 2 first and was pulled into the music almost immediately. I was completely blown away by the end of Supper's Ready and quickly flipped it over to hear side 1, which sounded equally as good.

Thanks for starting the thread Mozo! I love reading the stories from that day and look forward to more. I wasn't there but here's my sorta story.

In October 1982 I was living in Pasadena California and had already been a Genesis fan for a little over 9 years but had heard nothing about a reunion about to take place in Milton Keynes. A few days after the gig, though, I was in my car driving to the supermarket one evening at sunset listening to KROQ, the radio station that had started the "rock of the 80s" format of ditching most 70s arena rock in favor of playing new wave artists such as Thompson Twins, Flock of Seagulls, and Duran Duran. The DJ on that evening was Jed The Fish, and after playing something like Thomas Dolby's Europa & The Pirate Twins, Jed came back on and expressed how bummed he was that he had missed a Genesis reunion show in England with Peter Gabriel. My jaw dropped! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then he proceeded to play "Supper's Ready" in its entirety. My destination was only about 10 minutes from home but instead of driving straight there, I took a detour and extended the drive so I could listen to all of Supper's Ready while enjoying the sunset.

Quote from The_Genesis_Archive

Joey, we were on the old forum (it was actually the 5th or 6th edition of the official forum). Whilst we don't remember everything. We do know that Nick Davis had a section on there.

Having met Nick Davis twice (both at The Farm), its just one of those things that has slipped my mind.

So, thank you for the update on this.

TGA

It also would have been easy to miss Nick's post with the links to the downloads. I seem to remember not many people were interested.

Quote from The_Genesis_Archive

Pardon? the extra songs from the Rainbow concert, appear on the DVD that was included in the boxset. Its the first we have heard that they offered a download option. Even the CD/DVD USA boxsets would have had the extra tracks on the DVD portion of the boxset.

TGA

The download was offered through the old Genesis Forum. Nick Davis was a regular contributor on the forum during the remixing process, frequently giving forum members updates on his work. When the Live box was released, Nick said he had done the stereo remixes for Watcher of the Skies and The Musical Box from the Rainbow show even though they weren't going to be included on the Live Box Extra Tracks CD. He provided a link in a forum post to download the 2 tracks.

Quote from foxfeeder

Er, I think not. The Santa Monica recordings are at the transition between Narnia and Carry On...., the organ is credited as "The Robert Morton Pipe Organ", which implies there has only been one, there have been several, apparently. As the album notes state, it was destroyed weeks later in a studio fire, which also destroyed the early recordings of "Octave" by the Moody Blues who were using the studio at the time. They decamped to Mike Pinder's studio in Malibu as a result.

Sampling wasn't available in 1977 when the album was made. The Santa Monica fairground features in the album inner-sleeve photos, and the recording are of automata, eg/ the "Bimbo the Clown" and other associated bits

Yep, that's all correct. Since this thread is all about trivia (and at the risk of coming off as an annoying pedantic) here's a little more info:

1) The burned recording studio housing the Robert Morton Pipe Organ heard at the end of the title track 'Please Don't Touch' was The Record Plant in Los Angeles.

2) The amusement park with the fairground arcade noises heard at the beginning of 'Carry On Up The Vicarage' was on the Santa Monica Pier. While there is a merry-go-round on the pier, it's sounds were not used on the album Please Don't Touch.

The following is directly from the Hackett's mouth ...

A Genesis in My Bed (pgs 105 - 106)

"Santa Monica Pier also held a fascination. Its malevolent merry-go-round with those horse heads coming at you was featured in The Sting, and I was to use sounds from its arcade on my Please Don't Touch Album."

A Genesis in My Bed (pgs 115)
Exploring potential Californian studios, I found a fantastic pipe organ in the Record Plant, which I used on 'Icarus Ascending' and the flagship tune 'Please Don't Touch."

And finally, a video of Steve on the Santa Monica pier in 2014 reminiscing about the recording of Please Don't Touch with comments specifically about the arcade sounds at the beginning of 'Carry On Up The Vicarage" being recorded there. What may cause some confusion is that in the scene in this video with Steve riding the merry-go-round, the pipe organ section from his album is playing as background music. But that is not the actual sound of the merry-go-round.

Quote from WelcomeAHorsesKick

VICE: "... Genesis Has Always Been a Great Band"

I thought this was a surprisingly good piece about the band, from VICE, of all places.

I've been waiting over 45 years to read pieces like this, as well as all the positive Last Domino tour reviews. It's about time! Thanks for sharing.

A very enthusiastic thumbs up for the change. It's much easier to quickly see the Genesis related posts on the dashboard, which is why I come to the forum.

Quote from Witchwood

David Longdon

17th June 1965 - 20th November 2021

Big Big Train are extremely saddened to announce the death of David Longdon this afternoon in hospital in Nottingham, UK at the age of 56 following an accident in the early hours of Friday morning. He is survived by his two daughters Amelia and Eloise, his mother Vera and his partner Sarah Ewing.

I saw this and my first thought was, it couldn't be true.

Devastating news.

This news made me sad. Watching him sing Spectral Mornings made me cry.