Posts by Duke of Earl of Mar

Quote from Schrottrocker

Interesting, I always heard it as D# / F# / G. That would take the semitone between the F# and the G, leaving the D# as an outside note without context.

Actually, I hesitated between your voicing (with the B added at the bottom) and mine before writing, but I ultimately think it's D# / E / G (no B at the bottom, I was probably fooled by the staccato part playing B / E). Just three notes, you were right !

As for the F# impression, I got that too, it's probably because all these notes are very, very close to each other.

Try both and tell us what you think of it !

I like the calm bits a lot, with Phil's twin harmonies.

12.

As a side comment, looking at the cover, I wonder if the "bald scientist with the pair of glasses" is or isn't the same guy, a bit frightened, looking down at something, on the Smallcreep's Day cover ?

Quote from Liquid Len

it only lasts for a split second, but that Tony chord that sounds like it’s out of tune

Em(Maj7) chord, second inversion, above middle C : B / D# / E / G.

D# and E are one semitone apart, creating the friction.

Since it's played with a strange sound (apparently from the CP-70, at least live in 1983-1984, but maybe they used the pure acoustic sound of the strings ringing in the studio version, with the CP a bit out of tune to enhance the dissonant effect, I don't really know how they achieved this sound).

On the Genesis cassettes distributed in France, probably dating from the beginning of the 80's, Nursery Crime and Selling albums have mismatches.

https://fr.shopping.rakuten.com/photo/2267418038_L.jpg

and

https://www.picclickimg.com/YRUAAOSwqCJlOq8X/Cassette-audio-tape-GENESIS-Selling-England-by-the.webp

For years, as a child, I thought Hogweed was Salmacis, and More Fool Me was Battle (I was only listening to cassettes). It was only when I began to study and understand English (at school), and paying attention to the lyrics that I thought "it seems there is a problem, the theme of the song does not fit with the title..." but I still wasn't sure. And then came the internet, and I was so surprised to discover the mistakes...

Quote from Duke of Earl of Mar

7. Medley: (Mike Double-Neck Guitar/Bass)

1. Fading Lights (first half) (transits into…)

2. Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats / Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers / In That Quiet Earth (first half in 9/8, then Earl of Mar lead line transits into…)

3. Apocalypse in 9/8 (replaces Cinema Show, at the B Major final chord, transits into…)

4. Afterglow (E Major, the way they played it in 2021-2022)

I've made an audio patchwork of what's above : see attachment (sorry for the very low audio quality). To me, it works well (do not pay too much attention to the different sources, it changes the sounds and the atmosphere, it's just for the sake of it).

If only... Anyway, it's over now.

Medley Genesis 2022 vlq.mp3.zip

I feel the same as both of you. I love the main groove, the sax is a bit cheesy, but those were the times.

In general, I would say No Jacket Required is not my favourite Phil Collins album. I like Inside Out, Long Long Way To Go, Take Me Home, Doesn't Anybody Stay Together Anymore, and We Say Hello Goodbye especially... The rest is, you know, songs that are very often on radio, and they have become "what Phil Collins is about" over the years in people's minds : upbeat 80's songs with overuse of DX7 cheesy sounds, if you know what I mean. I doubt Phil himself is really keen on those "radio hit" songs, judging by what he said in his autobiography.

I prefer the darker, angry Phil (his two first albums...).

Straight 4/4 drumming, distorted guitar riffs, sparse keyboard parts, and a kind of similar tempo.

I understand what IWIWRD wants to say, but still, the two songs are too different, I can't see any actual influence of one song on the other.

Same kind of energy, maybe. Nothing else to me.

Quote from Backdrifter

This was answered earlier, but made me wonder if he ever used the mellotron on flute setting.

The intro of Battle of Epping Forrest, I think.

Another unique occurrence is Harlequin, where he plays some vibraphone mellotron sound (a small motif before the chorus).

Quote from Backdrifter

Perhaps that's one way in which as Duke of Earl of Mar says it's sort of 'anti-Genesis'.

I hadn't think about the lyrics when I wrote my post, but you're right.

It was more about the music, with a very minimalist harmonic approach : there is only a few chord changes, overall it stays in C, and the song is quite long. I should have written "anti-Banksian" maybe.

Quote

Is it a backtracked vocoder vocal? TB was using vocoder at the time - very prominent on Duchess (including the 3SL album and film) and M&SJ.

Probably. A vocal part recorded, played backwards, and the audio goes to the external synth input of the Roland vocoder, which is processing it.

Tony also used this external input live, by plugging his Prophet 5 (above the CP70 piano on the Duke tour) to the vocoder placed in his back when playing the piano. It's why we see him singing "Ahhooooooaaaeeeeh" during the chorus of Duchess, and playing the prophet and not the vocoder. We do hear the vocoder though.

I'm also sure he is using it on Man of our Times.

Difficult for me to rank this song.

Musically it's almost anti-Genesis, which makes it interesting also. It's an important song for the band (a fresh start, as we all know...). It sounds very improvised in the instrumental section, again something quite uncommon for them. I find the fade-out frustrating, but there is probably a good reason for it : maybe they didn't write the end, and it came only later, by rehearsing for the tour.

One thing that I don't like very much in the studio version is the overall sound, which I find aggressive (drums smashing...).

This song really acquired another dimension played live. It became quite terrific, with the double drums. It's probably Mike's finest hour in guitar playing. Each time I watch a live performance (especially around 1986-1987), I get caught by the energy. The long final is my favourite moment.

It's worth noting the small differences in the instrumental section from one night to another, it's quite enjoyable.

What's curious is that it became almost forgotten by the band after the 80's, despite being so important for their new musical approach.

Still, I have to say that I have other songs I prefer, even if I like it.

Mixed feelings maybe... But it's still one of my favourite bands.

11/15.

This is my kind of topic... Thanks Backdrifter !

- The little organ solo in Stagnation, just after the dueling guitar arpeggios, before the instrumental climax in D major with the drums ;

- The quiet part of the organ and flute solo in The Knife ;

- The intro of Salmacis

- The mellotron solo of Can Utility :

- Cinema Show solo ;

- Fly on a windshield ;

- The synth melody of Hairless Heart ;

- The piano/synth melodic blend with Hackett and Rutherford acoustics in the Lamia (between the verses, you know) ;

- The ending of Entangled ;

- Earl of Mar Intro ;

- Wot Gorilla ? ;

- The instrumental ending of All in a Mouse's Night (after the "It only took one blow !" line) ;

- the piano/mellotron blend of Blood on the Rooftops ;

- Same for Many Too Many ;

- the naive quality of Ballad of Big organ part ;

- Duchess intro ;

- Cul De Sac intro ;

- Duke's Travels climax.

- Me And Sarah Jane ("First I'm flying going round and round...")

- It's Gonna Get Better ending ;

- Tonight instrumental bridge ;

- The Brazilian ;

- Hold On My Heart chords ;

- Fading Lights verses ;

- Alien Afternoon ending.

That's a lot I know...

I'm all in !

For months I've been imagining what the band could have done for their last tour...

The Last Domino - Setlist of my dreams

Intro : When The Sour turns to Sweet, intro (« We're waiting for you, Come and join us now, We need you with us, Come and join us now »… 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4 !!!)

1. Duke's Intro (Behind the Lines/Duke's End) (transits into…) (Mike Bass)

2. Abacab (shortened version, replaces Turn It On Again) (Mike Bass)

3. Mama (Mike Guitar)

4. Land of Confusion (Mike Guitar)

(« Now, for this very last tour, we thought it would be great to play some songs that we haven’t played for a very, very, very long time… » - Audience cheering - « So this next one is a very, very, very old song, some may consider it as a classic now » - Audience cheering. « It’s called The Musical Box. » - Audience acclaims.)

5. The Musical Box (replaces Home By The Sea) (Mike Double-Neck Guitar/Bass)

(« Now we are placed in an unusual way, allowing us to perform songs a bit differently… As I said earlier, we also thought this tour would be the last opportunity to play some of our songs… So, why wouldn’t we play some never played live stuff ? » - Audience cheering - « So, to begin, a song that may have been a little forgotten over the years… Some of you might recognise it… »)

6. Acoustic set:

1. A Trick Of The Tail (replaces That’s All) (Mike Bass)

2. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (shortened) (Mike Bass)

3. Not About Us (added) (Mike Acoustic Guitar )

4. White Mountain (added, first verse, goes into…) (Mike Acoustic Guitar )

5. Ripples (added, first verse and chorus) (Mike Acoustic Guitar )

6. Lovers Leap (added) (Mike Acoustic Guitar )

7. Medley: (Mike Double-Neck Guitar/Bass)

1. Fading Lights (first half) (transits into…)

2. Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats / Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers / In That Quiet Earth (first half in 9/8, then Earl of Mar lead line transits into…)

3. Apocalypse in 9/8 (replaces Cinema Show, at the B Major final chord, transits into…)

4. Afterglow (E Major, the way they played it in 2021-2022)

8. Duchess (Mike Double-Neck Guitar/Bass)

9. Misunderstanding (Mike Bass)

10. Firth of Fifth (instrumental section) (Mike Bass)

11. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) (Mike Bass)

12. Follow You Follow Me (normal version) (replaces No Son Of Mine) (Mike Guitar)

13. Domino (Mike Guitar)

14. Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" (shortened) / Invisible Touch (Mike Guitar)

15. Los Endos (Short drum solo/intro by Nic, Mike Double-Neck Guitar/Bass)

Encore

16. "I Can't Dance" (Mike Guitar)

17. "Dancing With the Moonlit Knight" (introduction with first two verses) / The Carpet Crawlers (Mike Guitar)

Now every album would have been covered at least with one song. It would have made sense since it was their last tour. But it's probably much too long too...

I think the fade out thing exists also because of the lack of space on vinyl records. If would add 15 to 20 seconds or even more for each song to finish properly. Genesis records were already quiet long, maybe they thought it would compromise the sound too much.

Of course, this does not apply to CAS, I think it's only a matter of "we don't know how to finish".

Concerning Abacab, because it was a studio jam, maybe they didn't know how to end the song when they recorded it, and it only came later, by rehearsing for the tour with Daryl and Chester. But it's just a theory.

Quote from genesis1964

Karl Wallinger, a very talented musician

If I remember correctly, he participated in the Big Blue Ball project with Peter Gabriel. I think he actually wrote the title song.

RIP...

Thewatcher said it all.

Isn't it the band that made an Anthony Phillips Tribute album, a few years ago ?

I've always liked it, especially the straightforward rock feeling, quite unusual for the band in this period. 12 points.

Quote from LivingForever1999

David Crosby and Graham Nash did a number of albums together, outside of Crosby, Stills, & Nash

(& Young).

So did Stephen Stills and Neil Young, on one occasion (The Stills-Young Band).

Well, I compared the two versions, and yes, there is a difference.

On the 1994 Remaster, we hear "Hasn't it ?" on the fourth beat, and then comes the crotales' hit (a pair of tiny cymbals) sound right on the following first beat.

On the 2007 Remix, both elements come simultaneously, so the voice has been delayed a little.

On Seconds Out, Phil says "hasn't it" also before the first beat, like in the original. Same in 1976 and 1982 on the versions I've listened to. So we can assume the phrase was meant to be placed that way, and that the 2007 Remix is wrong.

I don't know what's going on really, but hearing that last track isolated made me wonder : "But what's the point of all this ? Does it even make sense ? Is it any good ?"

It sounds like Steve Hackett is thinking "Let's put everything I have in mind, every strange noise I found on any track and release it".

There's too much of everything to my ears (the production does not help in that aspect). It makes me think of Mike Rutherford's statement about Abacab when they worked on it back then : they were becoming "a caricature of themselves" and they decided to start fresh, with something completely different.

Maybe it's what Steve needs ? His own "Abacab" album ?

Sorry, I'm probably a bit harsh and confused.

Quote from Micklemus

The part the really grates on me is the instrumental section at the end. The musicianship might be great but the sound they produce is not, and that steadily climbing piano scale amongst the melee makes me wince.

Funny enough, it's my favourite part of the song (that bass !), which I've always liked anyway. 12 points.

Oddly enough, I would say that I understand the critics on it (the sound, the theme, etc...), because that's also true.

Same thing regarding the overall sound they had at the time (let's say, From Trick to Duke, that "polished", "evened" sound). Almost 25 years after I discovered them, it's still the sound I have in mind when I think about the band, yet I understand why a lot of fans don't like it.