Does anyone have a picture of the live at the BBC disc with track list from the late 1990’s that was proposed by Virgin but ultimately turned down by the band at the time?
Posts by pcontos
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I remember the first time hearing the 92 old medley. When they started to play Dance on a Volcano, I just about $hit myself thinking they are going to play the entire song, and then they went directly into TLLDOB after a few verses and I thought, what the heck is this?! Man they sounded great playing DOAV in 92. I just wish they would have played the entire thing. It could have been the highlight of the show!
I remember hearing the first notes of the Old Medley at Three Rivers Stadium and I was so surprised. I had just gotten into Genesis big time in 1991 just as We Can't Dance came out. I was already familiar with a lot of their music growing up because my parents loved them. I was 16 and finally could go to a concert (my second, Yes Union was first). My parents had told me that they really weren't playing much older material anymore and that the only thing they really play is the In The Cage Medley so I wasn't expecting a new medley. I loved it at the time and ever since as the performances of each of the songs sounded so fresh. I was very disappointed that they only played half of DOV and half of the Lamb. The rest didn't really bother me because I felt that The Musical Box ending into Firth into IKWIL flowed really well. I actually think that DOV may be the best or near the best they ever played it as the tempo and Mike and Daryl's guitars sound so good.
I just read Mario's The Phil Collins Years book and I must say I really enjoyed it. Between that book and the new unfiltered John Edington 2014 Interviews, I've learned a lot about the band that I didn't know and I've been a pretty hard core fan for over 30 years. One thing that I came to better understand is the reason for their use of medleys in later tours. Now obviously, as they more albums and had hits there wasn't going to be time for much of the longer songs from the past. They weren't really into that type of music as much at that time, especially it seemed in 1992 so hence the one 20 minutes medley and the rest of the show from the last three albums (not counting the encore TIOA). More than that though, I think that their self-criticism of their compositions really had more to do with it. Reading Mario's book and other interviews, each of them would say that they liked certain bits in certain songs but not other bits. Tony actually said that as time past they would take each opportunity to lose the bits within a song that they didn't feel was as strong. In addition, Phil didn't like singing many of the lyrics to the older material as he couldn't connect with it anymore and felt self-conscious. That, I think is what made them choose to do medleys instead of one or two whole songs. I mean, they even did it to Tonight, Tonight, Tonight. They didn't think the second half was nearly as good so they dropped it. They have said in a few interviews that they didn't think the second half of DOV was as strong as well. There are many examples of this which has been frustrating as a fan. Most of us generally love 90% of their output but it seems that it is difficult for the three of them to agree about the which older material to play.
I am so happy to see them playing as it really is a bonus and a way to wallow in nostalgia. I did hope that they would have been a little more adventurous with the older material this time, but I'm not surprised the setlist is what it is.
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Wow. That’s a major bummer. So sorry to hear that.
As soon as Christian dropped that spoiler yesterday I had a strong feeling it would replace Duchess. Duchess wasn’t an American hit and they weren’t going to play another song from Duke. I guess Abacab really didn’t sound that convincing to them.
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small world indeed ! Was hoping to get over to Pittsburgh for the Genesis show, but proved a bit difficult as travelling restrictions only recently removed. My buddy that i met in OC, has come over to Europe several times for some shows...U2 in Dublin, Genesis in Italy. Good times on the boardwalk in OC 👍
Simon,
The boardwalk is still pretty much the same and a lot of fun. I too was in Italy for Genesis I. 2007 and I thought my girlfriend at the time and I were the only people from Pittsburgh!
Are you the Simon that runs the Genesis Movement site? -
Spent two seasons in Ocean City MD..as s UK student many moons ago. Had a great time and still good friends with guys from Pittsburgh from over 30 years ago!...nice part of the world snd some good crab and lobster dishes!
Simon, I’m from Pittsburgh and we have been vacationing there since I was young. There were always a lot of students from overseas working. Small world!
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I was hoping so much that your reveal was Abacab. I do not understand why this song keeps getting bumped out. It is so strong live and it is one of the only tracks still played consistently on rock radio here. I’m hoping we get to hear at least there rehearsal version at some point.
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Genesis Archive,
I was wondering if your organization has ever tried to approach Genesis Management with any offer to organize an official’s archive. You, along with some other groups have been able to locate, curate and release many rare and interesting photos, films as well as audio. It seems Genesis has never been interested in creating this kind of project. I think it has been done with some other bands where fan groups partner?
Just curious
Paul -
Display MoreSome of those sources came from a friend of the band, who was permitted to film. We were livid that our exclusive footage, was stolen are reuploaded.
Other elements were from sources that we again obtained, we demanded that they were taken down.
We spent time, energy, money and have put up some of these items on our Youtube. They are not for chancers or Assh***s to steal and repost.
Genesis have in their archive or access to the directors archive of their own material. The director remembers sending the band an edit of the Mama tour video complete with Los Endos, which they cut from the final release.
As for archival stuff, there is a full pro shot of Mike and the mechanics from The Greek Theatre in 1989, Phil Collins in Singapore 1995 etc. But the band / members have no desire to release it. There is a pro shot of Genesis during the WCD 1992 tour, in the USA (no not Texas). But that's not seen the light of day either.
TGA
What exactly was the footage that was stolen? Something from the Mama tour or Invisible Touch tour?
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Ok, our favourite touring guitarists name is Daryl (just one R) Stuermer.
Archive One was first started in 1995, they didn't do anything with it until June 1998 in terms of a release.
Archive Two came out in September 2000.
Phil had left Genesis by 1995, but the band didn't make an announcement until March 1996.
Phil has remarked that at the gig at Cowdray Ruins in 1993, he felt he was playing a part. He had little to no feeling performing those songs. That was the final thing in his head about leaving, obviously his personal life was derailing, that wouldn't become public until 1994. Phil was the target of the tabloid press, who where very intrusive and invasive. They would ring up Phil's mum / sister etc and hassle them.
The TIOA 2007 was meant to continue into 2008, the management had placed the stage into storage for this purpose. They had also contracted companies like transport / trucking etc.
So there you go...
TGA
I’m quite familiar with the timeline, but thanks for the recap. I guess I still am disappointed that he left. I’ve always gone back and forth as to whether I wished they would have continued or not. At the time, I was enthusiastic and supportive of them moving on with Calling All Stations but ultimately it wasn’t ever going to be as successful as the trio. If they would have stuck with it for another record and tried to build it, eventually there would have always public pressure to have Phil return. I think they probably knew that too in the back of their minds.
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What was interesting From Darryl, he said that if Genesis had of toured again after the 2007 Tour, then he would have expected they would have had to record a new album, because they couldn't do another show like that again with no new material and it's probably why it didn't happen, along with Phil's issues, Phil was set against it at that point to record an album and tour anyhow.
I still feel, they should have done one more album around 95 / 96 and called it a day.
How much Genesis stuff did Phil do after he left, lots! Songbooks and documentaries and other stuff all around early 2000 era.
I’m still really puzzled why he felt like he had to “leave Genesis”. He was so adamant about quitting between 1994-1997. I mean he didn’t officially announce until 1996 but he checked out after writing Both Sides and that Cowdry Ruins benefit concert. Maybe he felt it wouldn’t be fair to keep Tony and Mike from trying to keep Genesis going since they were all still pretty young. It’s just that by 1998 he was back in the picture talking about the box sets and by 1999 and each year after it seemed like he kind of missed them. I’m not saying that Tony and Mike shouldn’t have tried with a new singer but I’m not sure they were really committed to that challenge and what their realistic expectations were as to how successful it could be.
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I'm guessing the setlist didn't change on the third night in Birmingham either? That, I believe, was the only chance that they would introduce new songs on this British tour. I think that Jesus He Knows Me and Hold On My Heart are ready to go if necessary but probably won't be played unless they change it up slightly for the American tour. I think it may have been decided since last November's rehearsals that neither Abacab nor the Musical Box would be in the set this tour since they weren't printed on the T-Shirts. I still can't believe they did that as well as released the cd with nearly the same setlist order. I am still so disappointed that Abacab didn't make it since it is/was so popular and gives the set another harder rock song. It actually is still one of the songs that is played on classic rock stations here in America. If they did rehearse it though, I fear that it would be the edited version since that again is what is on the CD set. That to me would be worse than not playing it at all.
I've been looking at the setlist and I thought that it seemed shorter than past ones but it still says it is 140 minutes, which is already over the 2 hours we expected them to play. I really don't know what they would consider dropping to swap another song in. I'm stuck on this.
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usapfan,
If you were at or was given access or information on the setlist of the two production rehearsals Thursday and Saturday, would you be willing to share that information to those who want to know? Obviously, with spoiler warnings?
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Does anybody know if this was really legit? This appeared in April 2020 after the tour was first announced and was apparently songs that the band rehearsed or considered rehearsing during there initial three week period in New York in January 2020. There was rumor that it was legit but then rumor that it was debunked. I imagine no one knows for certain but it does seem very close to the songs that we have been hearing them rehearse as well as the fact that there was an acoustic set planned. If it was a fake, someone did a really good job in guessing what they were going to rehearse and eventually play. I've seen discussion on Facebook and Forums that it came from someone "in the know". Does anyone have any other information?
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If I were Tony, Mike and Phil I wouldn't have allowed PBS to use recordings of any potentially surprising song choices. So I would like to think that there are one or two surprises left for us.
Did anyone get to the bottom of the Last Domino Compilation track list differences? Why are there two different ones? Which one is correct and why on earth would they release a compilation with the exact same setlist as the upcoming tour? I never heard of something so ridiculous. Also, if that is true, I hope that they don't do an edited version of Abacab. Could you imagine that song without the second part? That would be way worse than the Tonight X3 edited version. It seems as if the setlist speculation is/was tied exactly to this compilation. For example, what makes us think that Fading Lights will start an old medley? Is it because there is one shot of Phil singing with Mike next to him with the double neck? Is it because of this compilation? I'm really curious as to why this compilation is so tied to the running order and song selection. I might be wrong but I would never thought that the band would put out a compilation that would completely leak the setlist of a tour that is just about to start. Is the first version and accidental leak of the filmed rehearsal setlist and the second the compilation setlist? Anyway, here are the two versions again:
CD1
Duke's End
Turn It On Again
Mama
Land Of Confusion
Home By The Sea
Second Home By The Sea
Fading Lights
The Cinema Show
Afterglow
Hold On My Heart
Jesus He Knows Me
That's All
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
In Too DeepCD2
Follow You Follow Me
Duchess
No Son Of Mine
Firth Of Fifth
I Know What I Like
Domino
Throwing It All Away
Tonight Tonight Tonight
Invisible Touch
I Can't Dance
Dancing With The Moonlit Knight
Carpet Crawlers
Abacab (edit)Disc 1
Turn It on Again
Land of Confusion
Home by the Sea
That's All
Throwing It All Away
Follow You Follow Me
No Son of Mine
Hold on My Heart
I Can't Dance
Invisible Touch
Afterglow
Duchess
Misunderstanding
Jesus He Knows Me
In Too Deep
Domino (Pt. 1 & 2)Disc 2
Mama
The Carpet Crawlers
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight
Firth of Fifth
Abacab (Edit)
Los Endos
Fading Lights
The Cinema Show
Dancing with the Moonlit Knight
The Musical Box -
I guess we will know in a week and a few hours
Does anyone know why they are emotionally attached to Carpet Crawlers? I've heard Phil and Tony mention it, but I've never known specifically why.
I think that it is one of the older songs that they all really like. I think that is part of the problem with them playing old material. I think it is hard for all three of them to agree on certain older songs. The ones that they do play, it seems that they all still feel strongly about. Most bands are critical about their past and Genesis is one of the most critical.
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Yea, I think we've heard about 90-95 % of the set list thus far. "Invisible Touch" and "I Can't Dance" are obviously going to be in there, and maybe "Fading Lights." "Follow You, Follow Me" will be in there as well.
Biggest surprises will likely be "Duchess" and "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight." I've given up on "Supper's Ready" in any form, and I really don't need to hear the Phil in the documentary sing it three steps lower and unable to sing it with the intensity and emotion it requires (at least the last two sections). I don't think "Squonk," "Misunderstanding," or "In Too Deep" will make it. Hell, I think they're even gonna bench "Hold on My Heart" and "No Son of Mine" this time around.
It'll be at most 20 songs, more likely 18-19, with a medley thrown in. The medley will likely be "Fading Lights -> Cinema -> Afterglow." "Turn It On Again" will either open or close the show.
I think you are right. You can just do the numbers and see there is only so much time. I would normally guarantee No Son Of Mine but it may sound to dull at an even lower key, so maybe you are correct. I'm really surprised though if there is not at least one tune from Trick. That would be pretty odd. Also, I' really don't think Abacab will be on there unless they saved a few songs knowing that this special will air and they didn't want to give it all away. We will see in twelve days!
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I heard the same thing regarding the middle bit of TTT while Tony was discussing lighting cues. A written set list that includes “TTT/Invisible Touch” doesn’t necessarily mean they’re playing the bastardized version of TTT. We get all of In the Cage every tour as part of a medley, although it’s listed as “In the Cage/Cinema Show” (etc). It’s entirely possible that the band figured why not play all of TTT on their farewell tour. In my mind’s ear I can hear the transition from the end of TTT played circa 1986-87 into IT smoothly. There’s certainly no guarantees we get the album version of TTT but after watching the doc it strikes me as a good possibility.
I hope your right MoolitKnight. I thought the same thing when I heard Tony comment about "the middle bit" when TTT was playing in the background. I did see the screen with all the objects flying around though (money, telephones, etc.) and I didn't know what it was.
Usapcfan said it was Jesus He Knows Me, which makes sense as there is a middle section (kinda reggae) which does go back into the verse.
If you are taking about the visuals they were watching, those were the visuals for Jesus, with the icons/graphics around the edges of the screen.
There’s a screen grab that clearly shows TTT/Invisible Touch -bottom line of the set list.I was really hoping for the full TTT but really don't expect it. After I heard that comment and based on the fact that they are trying some different stuff, I thought who knows. If not the whole song, maybe a little more than just that first part, like they did with Ripples last time. The Instrumental part isn't that long and the build to the "You keep telling me I got everything" is the highlight of the whole song, in my opinion. The repeat of the verse and the end does go on a little long, although it completes it properly. I never liked the version in 1992 and it always felt that they turned this song into a rock anthem singalong, like We will rock You. It's like a throwaway just to get people to sing the catchy chorus.
The other song I'm really wondering about is Fading Lights. Tony said he "convinced" the other two to sing the first two verses. He said nothing about the instrumental which is so essential to that song, otherwise it is a little boring although beautiful. I would think that it would be played, at least some of it and transition into the Cinema Show. I'm not sure how much of it though since last time they only played the last two minutes of Duke's Travels in the medley. If it indeed starts the medley, it will be interesting to see "newer" material placed next to "older" even though they are all old now.
I'm so hoping for Abacab. It's a rock song and people love it and it is still played on classic rock radio here is the states. I don't think that they would do the edit version as indicated on the new compilation. If so, that's ridiculous. The best part live has always been the second part, although two drummers feature heavily in that part.
I'm still confused about the setlist. If I add up all the songs we absolutely know they rehearsed, its like 2.5 hours easy. I'm a little surprised that they still feel they have to draw 70% of the set from the last three albums. I mean, I love those albums and love most if not all of the songs but it is a little much. If I count correctly, 6 from Invisible Touch, 5 from We Can't Dance and 3 from Genesis. It really doesn't leave any room for any big surprises other than what we have heard already unless they drop some of these songs.
Daryl said in an interview that they tried some 70's songs but they sounded dated. I mean, no shit they sound dated. Nobody writes songs about little mythical creatures that disappear anymore. It's not really the point and there is really no reason to get embarrassed about that anymore. I can see when they were trying to be young and relevant back in the eighties and early nineties. I think that there also is a greater number of fans that are into the 70's stuff than during the 1986-1992 era since time has there music to be rediscovered over many years and it seems that magazines and documentaries always focus 60-70% of there story on the Peter years up until they became a three piece.
I'm certainly happy to see whatever they play since I love it and I know I sound like a complainer, but I guess I never understood why they struggle to embrace more of their past catalogue which is very rich and diverse. I can understand that it might feel like a different band to them since it was so long ago but I can't understand how they can't hear the beauty and magic of some of that earlier material.
Sorry for the ramble:)
Paul
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Is anybody sharing those soundboards or IEM recordings on Simon’s site or Dime or is that off limits?
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Sorry I put my reply in with your quote by accident .
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Haven't Mike and Tony all but confirmed they're doing the first two verses of Fading Lights....because it feels appropriate now...
the guy who started the "Many Too many" rumour has since stated it was a joke, and there's no chance of it being performed.
Nic has, from memory, specifically mentioned Mama, HBTS, Apolcalypse, Invisible Touch, Land of Confusion. It's been heavily hinted by Tony and Phil that the latter's objection to the lyrics of Abacab has been overcome.
Who was the source of the Many too Many rumor? I only remember it being on that rehearsal set list that was posted last year. Did someone cop to admitting that was definitely fake? Has it been mentioned otherwise?
Also, when did Tony and Phil hint about overcoming Phil’s 2007 objection to Abacab’s lyrics? I would love to see that again as most would. They have had only a few interviews since the announcement in March 2020 and I haven’t seen anything from the three of them about the set list since that PROG article.
Also I would love Fading Lights but it wouldn’t be the same without the instrumental section. The first part is the perfect set up. Unfortunately I don’t think that they rate that instrumental very high from what I remember.