He was impressed by the Led Zeppelin gig and I am pretty sure this made him think twice ... and step away from the project. Not sure, but that could be an explanation.
Why would his being impressed by Zeppelin cause him to step away from the project?
Display MoreAt the time of the promotion of We Can't Dance, they expressed, specially Collins, in several interviews the opinion that good music came from good songs and gifted artists, regardless of the rhythm, fad respectability or the pundits' opinions.
Phil Collins - Interview Clip (00:25 Onwards).
Remember that Collins did not have a good opinion of rap, without forgetting that about 12 years before he said that he liked punk against the critics' consensus.
They did not actually said that their album's title was a pun on that of Madge, but this can be gathered.
You're inferring a lot from some meagre scraps.
Anyway, this all belongs in the WCD album thread.
The bubble-gum dance music, not the whole dance music genre. Novelty songs.
I still don't get what you mean but never mind, I don't want to labour the point.
I honestly thought all Genesis were really saying with 'We Can't Dance' was to acknowledge that at their age they couldn't be expected to make that sort of music.
I agree there's less to it than suggested above. I've certainly not come across anything suggesting they were lampooning the Madonna dance-mix album title of 4 years previously. I read an interview in which PC said it was simply off the back of the prevalent dance music trend of the time, which suggested a way of playing up their "we know we're not cool" image, nothing more than that.
Something I mentioned in another thread a couple of years back: in the instrumental run-out, about 05.25-05.30, there sounds like an 'aaaaaaaaaah' vocalisation ending with what sounds like 'eyes' or 'lies', it's quite mixed back. Other members bafflingly heard this as "you can't resist me". I wondered if it was a muffled "Aaaaaaaah, the lady lies". It's definitely not "you can't resist me" though. I think it was MoonlitKnight who said that whatever it is it's swamped by David Hentschel's "syrupy pudding production".
The line 'you can dance' is from Into The Groove.
It was indeed a lampooning towards all the dance music scene (the criticism was not directed to the whole genre but to the dance music that was hollow).
They simply made up a world-play from the title of a remix album by Madonna from 1987 (You Can Dance) as a kind of answer or mockery (We Can't Dance).
When did they say this, and what does "the dance music that was hollow" mean?
I'm pretty certain when they got all 5 together, Peter didn't want to commit to a long tour and Phil was also on his I have to stay at home for the kids (even though they pretty muched moved not long after) so you had Peter wanting a one off, Phil not wanting to commit to more than a handful of shows and TS wanting a year long tour no doubt so that it would make enough money etc
No, I'm completely certain it's as the band themselves described, in their own words, in Chapter & Verse (which included PC very clearly being the most enthusiastic about doing it).
QuoteStill..... If Nic were to replace Phil, they could technically do a Lamb Tour still in 2025 / 2027 if PG and rest wanted too.
🤣
The band couldn't have done a four piece reunion focusing on 1976-77.
It wouldn't have to have focused on those specific years though. He was with them until 77, playing stuff from 70 onwards. That would have been the expected approach had he been in on it, but was never an option for the reasons given.
Display MoreI’ve found a dream thread to resurrect because of one I had last night.
Genesis had reformed for one huge final open air gig in some strange location on the edge of a forest. Phil was in rude health, Chester was there too and the stage set was similar to 2007 but grander. Anyway, the band was absolutely on fire, playing better than ever before, and then Phil announced, “we haven’t done this in a while” and moments later the opening bars of Suppers Ready started. But then it got weird because every couple of minutes during the first half Phil would shout “hold on, hold on”’and wave everybody to a halt before starting a stand up routine - “have you heard the one about…” and so it continued with them stuttering on surreally and much to our increasing annoyance.
“He’s the guaranteed eternal sanctuary… hold on…I’ve got one for ya’ about this bloke, you’ll like this…”
That is until they eventually got to “a flower” at which point Phil marched to the drum riser and out from the wings popped Peter Gabriel. The crowd went berserk and the rest of the gig was so good it was spiritual.
At the end I was in bits from a combination of the band finishing their career as rock gods and the realisation that my phone hadn’t worked so I had no record of it. I called my brother in frustration only to be told I was a complete muppet because the show had been broadcast on TV and radio round the world.
Feck knows where that came from or what it all means but it was a truly surreal Genesis dream.
Yours incorporates elements that are mentioned earlier in the thread, such as interruptions and woodland locations - the latter have certainly featured in mine.
Bit harsh of your brother there.
You can read the whole article free in the link below.
Genesis' Steve Hackett: ‘Phil Collins doesn't deserve what’s happened to him’
(Source: The Daily Telegraph)
Thanks for posting that, it gave a softer overall feel than the pull-quotes suggested. It's quite a good piece. I should add, it's not a secure link though.
I checked the relevant passage in Chapter & Verse. PC says the option of the 4-man line-up was never under consideration. He too says he felt bad for SH over how the discussion turned out.
Banks said that as soon as the Lamb tour idea was evidently not on, they decided to consider a trio tour and that the trio material is what he's most proud of. He also says "It would be strange for Steve to play the later material, I don't think he'd be keen to play I Can't Dance." I don't know if there's any record of the idea of his playing on an all-eras tour ever having been put to him.
A couple of other bits from revisiting this section of the book: PC got the ball rolling on the lead-up to the 5-man meeting. Promoting Archive 1 made him think about a 5-man reunion, and in interviews he'd say he was up for it if the others were, but the main onus would be on PG. Those comments obviously got repeated and they penetrated PG's mind, causing him to say he'd be interested in a Lamb tour. MR and PC immediately thought this sounded good especially as the 75 Lamb tour had been frustrating and never quite worked as it should, so this would be a chance to fix that. Banks was the least interested, but came around to the idea.
Banks said that after the Glasgow meeting (which was in fact Nov 04) PG hadn't ever said he was definitely not going to do the tour, he just never said he would do it! This left them with the notion it still might happen, but would now have to be after the 07 tour which was now being planned. But of course, it didn't. PC said that during 07 rehearsals it was clear the Lamb idea had now "fizzled out". He reiterated that he'd have loved to play drums behind a PG-led Genesis tour.
I didn't know he had agreed to participate in one of the reunion tours and was given the cold shoulder after. Or maybe that's not what happened? Regardless I picked up on the same fairly direct hostility you did.
I think it's a reference to what became the 07 tour. In 05 the five met (in Glasgow I think) to discuss taking The Lamb on tour. It was felt to be a done deal with the meeting a discussion of logistics etc. But PC's account is that PG opened with "We're here to discuss whether we're doing this" - ie, not when but if!
PC describes how they instantly reverted to their old roles - TB & PG arguing, MR being the gentlemanly moderator, himself being lighthearted trying to defuse the atmosphere, SH off to one side being 'dark' and marginal.
PG concluded that he couldn't (wouldn't?) do it, then left. Shortly after, SH left - sound familiar?! The trio decided to get DS & CT in and do the tour.
I'm not sure if a 4-man + CT option was discussed. It would've focused on 70-77 of course, over which I'm sure many here would salivate. I think the trio didn't want to eliminate post-77, which seemed to mean no place for SH. Not sure if he'd been up for doing post-77 stuff but there's a potentially intriguing tour in some other universe.
TB said he felt very sorry for SH over the outcome of that meeting.
So do live albums count?
If so, Viva Roxy Music.
It's bombastic mayhem on a runaway fairground train. With Roger King switching the track points.
There's a ready-made promotional pull-quote right there. Lovely stuff.
I think all Sade's albums.
For a moment I misread that as Slade and was puzzled.
It's a Tony's song and I'm supposed to like it
That made me chuckle. I absolutely get what you mean though.
I love that the same writer could produce something as ponderous as Rope, oddly unsatisfying as Lady, musically luscious yet lyrically stuffy as Undertow, and beautifully rendered in every sense and concise as Many, all on the same generally frustrating album.
<Pedant Alert> The original UK Lamb vinyl names the track in the singular on its sleeve. It has been named inconsistently throughout its life. (Contrary to the "suggestion" often proposed that its in the singular on Seconds Out owing to Collins dropping the opening verse.)
That's not especially pedantic, in fact thanks for reminding me about the original Lamb pressing. My brother had that pressing and your note has triggered my memory of seeing it in that title form. But I remember it as (per the Seconds Out listing) Crawl - did you mean 'singular' as in The Carpet Crawler? Or is that me now being pedantic?!
When you say Collins dropped the opening verse, do you literally mean he brought about that idea? I recall Banks saying they decided to go from "...cover the floor" as they thought the opening section felt too separate and the live rendition was more satisfyingly consistent without it. He made it seem like a group decision but it's interesting to suggest it originated with PC.
I heard a recording of PC trying out the song in its entirety including the opening section, possibly ahead of a tour. It might've been a link posted on the previous board. It sounded a bit rickety, like he was struggling with those opening verses, which might've been a reason he steered them to dropping that bit.
Really? I never knew and find it very interesting. I thought everything on studio albums was just the band. Is it Daryl on Jesus He Knows Me too?
I think TheWestSide was saying MR carried his studio lead guitar parts through to the live renditions but DrJ pointed out this didn't apply at least to the tracks mentioned. Everything in the studio from 78 was definitely just the trio other than the phenix horns.
I remember Abacab single edit played on national radio here in Britain at the time of its release, but never since.
I rarely hear Genesis on the radio here. Occasionally various hit singles will feature on nostalgia 'greatest hits' type stations - IT, FYFM, LoC or TIOA. BBC 6 Music occasionally plays album tracks, most often Guy Garvey of Elbow who has a very good Sunday afternoon show. As mentioned earlier in this thread he's known for quite often playing the Seconds Out version of Carpet Crawlers, in fact he's so devoted to it he refers to it as 'Carpet Crawl' as per the original cover. But he's also played Entangled and Ripples. Other presenters on the same channel have played DWTMK and FoF.
Almost identical comment from me as from TheLawnmower. I used to really like this track when I was younger, particularly live, but now it's just annoying. It's another of those songs that Phil might describe as 'of its time' - a cheesy lyrical tale - but it hasn't aged well like their true epics. The lyrics are somewhat fromage-laden but the part the really grates on me is the instrumental section at the end. The musicianship might be great but the sound they produce is not, and that steadily climbing piano scale amongst the melee makes me wince. Perhaps its just because my hearing has changed with age, I don't know, but once upon a time this would have been about 13 for me and now I can't listen to it at all, so I'll average it out and say 7.
What you and lawnmower said.
Seeing it on stage a couple of times in 1980 it sounded good and oh look how funny Phil is jumping around and twirling an imaginary moustache. But then, I was 14. In that sense, it's very much in that category of 'Things I Thought Were Good Because You Know, I Was 14' which I'm happy to leave there.
(NB: there are some things I liked at 14 and still do).
Nice curtains.
