Posts by OneForTheVine

  • Bands / Artists you used to despise and now love

    Quote from Fabrizio

    Regarding U2 my perception is that at a certain point it became 'cool' to loathe them. Personally, I believe that purely in terms of songwriting, because as far as musicianship go there can be objections, they are up there with the great bands of the 60s and 70s, with the difference that they lasted for decades with an intensity, fire and passion unknown to others and I would include Genesis, my favorite band, amongst those others. Sure, Bono is polarizing and preachy but when all is said and done, he is imo one hell of a singer.

    Completely agreed.


    Since the 90s, he hasn't really been preachy on-stage anymore either - off-stage, yes; on-stage, no. The last two tours (i.e., the JT anniversary tour last year and this year's SOE tour), he's become more political on-stage again, but that's a logical reaction to the 2016 election. So, more power to him, IMHO... 8)

  • The Book Thread

    Quote from FeelItComing

    I'm about to embark on James Joyce's Ulysses for only the second time. I warmed up with Portrait Of The Artist & Dubliners.

    At least you missed out "Finnegan's Wake" - a wise move! ^^


    "Ulysses" is great. It was also a big inspiration for U2's "Achtung Baby". I really like Portrait of the Artist too...you know, you may have inspired me to re-read Joyce. :thumbup:

  • Bands / Artists you used to despise and now love

    Great post! I wholeheartedly agree!


    ZooTV revolutionized touring, period. Having a mini-stage in the middle of the floor seating area wasn't done by acts before ZooTV; very many stadium performing acts (and some arena touring ones too, including U2) started using the idea for themselves after ZooTV - it's an effective way to get a little intimacy in a large setting.


    IMHO, "No Line" was U2's "The Unforgettable Fire" for the new millennium - i.e., the album that signaled a sharp change in direction for the band. "Achtung Baby" had that function as well in the 90s. The tour supporting "No Line" also was visionary - the U2360 tour had what they called "the claw" on that tour - they figured out a way to have a large object in the middle of a stadium which somehow made a stadium show feel more intimate than a stadium show. I'm still kind of blown away by the effect it had - I saw that show three times, but it didn't feel overwhelming in size like most stadium shows I have been to. I agree with Mr. Gabriel that you have to see a U2 show multiple times in order to fully "get it" (i.e., because there was so much forethought going into the shows design that seeing one show may not be enough to grasp it all) - and for that reason, they are the one touring act remaining that I insist on seeing multiple shows on the same tour.


    "Live To Tell" and "Express Yourself" caught my ear too - when I heard them, I found myself thinking, "Wait! I don't hate this." Maybe I should back up to the "Like A Prayer" album (which I think came out in '89 (?)) and give her credit for most of the 90s then...


    I also agree about the power of, at least temporarily, stripping back during a show. Having an entire show stripped back is a different thing altogether, and that approach works for many acts. However, with an act that achieves a large level of popularity where a level of spectacle has to be employed, just from the size of the venues as much as anything else, it is refreshing when the act reduces an occasion to a more intimate level. That was the thinking behind the b-stage for U2 as well. So, yes, it's always good to remind everyone that the act is why everyone has congregated in one place for an evening, not just the glitz.

  • Bands / Artists you used to despise and now love

    Quote from Backdrifter

    I was massively irritated by U2 up to and including Rattle & Hum. From the moment I saw the video of The Fly premiered on TV, I knew some major shift had occurred. From then, I bought their albums through the 90s and caught up with the earlier stuff which I still didn't much like apart from the odd few, but now viewed through much more accepting eyes. The stuff where they are regarded as having gone somewhat off-piste by many fans - Zooropa, Passengers, some of Pop, No Line - is my favourite U2 work (even the band say they think No Line was a mistake, and since that tour they have never revisited it).


    I had the rock fan's scepticism about Madonna for the first few years of her career, but gradually realised she was doing some very good-quality pop music and it re-activated my liking for pop.


    There are probably other examples; as Witchwood said above, I couldn't honestly say I actually detested any of these acts as that would be a complete 180, but certainly I found U2 very annoying and was at best indifferent to, at worst dismissive of, Madonna.

    Quote from slowdancer

    Great post, Backdrifter.


    My experiences with U2 were just the other way round. I was a huge fan in the eighties and thought, that Achtung Baby was a masterpiece, but they sort of lost me after this one. I couldn't cope with Zooropa. Pop I didn`t even buy. All the albums, that came after Pop seemed to sound the same and everything, I used to love about U2, especially on Unforgetable Fire and Joshua Tree seemed to have gone. Meanwhile I keep listening to all of their stuff again quite regularly. Even Zooropa has grown on me. I think, that their last three albums were really great. Just now, I am playing No Line On The Horizon.


    I shared the rock fan`s scepticism about Madonna until I heard Dress You Up on the radio. Bought Like A Virgin and loved it.

    I am pleased to read these posts - unlike the course that you both took with U2, I liked them all along! ^^ I'm a big fan of "No Line On The Horizon" too - besides the latest album (Songs Of Experience), it's my favorite post-90s U2 album. I quite like "How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb" too - very strong album tracks on that one. "Achtung Baby" is my all-time favorite and probably always will be. I almost always listen to it start-to-finish when I put it in the player. As much as I liked the 80s material, I still prefer the 90s material, even including the "Passengers" CD.


    I also had a mini-about-face over Madonna as well - in the 80s, her music made me quite queasy; in the 90's, esp. around "Ray of Light" and "Bedtime Stories", I almost enjoyed the songs - at least I disliked them much less than her older songs. In the new millennium, her music is pretty much a non-factor, but there was a brief moment in the mid-to-late 90s that I mildly enjoyed her music.

  • Your favorite GENESIS studio albums (pick three)

    Quote from Fabrizio

    True, the Lamb is clearly one off and with Trick they certainly returned to a more familiar path, however, if you are Peter's fan the edge and quirkiness he brought to the table is sorely missed, particularly on W&W which I personally believe is a fine album but a bit 'bland'. And the voice. Phil does a lovely job on those albums but he is far from being the singer he was to become and imo didn't still have the 'gravitas' in his voice Peter had.

    Oh, sure - that's true. My comment was purely in reference to the music. There was a distinctive musical sound that Genesis created from Trespass to SEBTP that defined the band up to that time. The Lamb was a departure from that established sound - and it had to be that way. With the storyline that Peter came up with, the music had to be different. After Peter left, the remaining four reverted to the style of music that simply came naturally to them. That's all I was getting at.

  • Yes

    Quote from Fabrizio

    Once a year I give Relayer a chance. I've been doing it for years now and still it eludes me. I know the band absolutely love it, they have said so on several occasions and that's probably why I keep try to see what is it I am missing but Soon aside, I can't seem to get into it. Any fan?

    It all comes down to whether or not you like Moraz' playing and how the band arranged the songs while he was part of the group. If you keep trying, and it's not pleasing you, then it just isn't to your taste. However, if you like CTTE, TFTO, and/or GFTO, though, you ought to find something to like on Relayer - they aren't so radically different in composition...


    You like Soon, but not "To Be Over"? That's a lovely piece of music.

  • Yes

    Quote from slowdancer

    I listened to Yesshows today. Gates and Ritual didn`t convince me really. Don`t Kill The Whale is fantastic, though. The original is a real stinker, but this live version shows the potential of the song. Time And A Word sounds great, too.

    OK - you gave it a shot, and the Moraz era just doesn't seem to satisfy you. Nothing wrong with that! A lot of Yes fans agree.


    Yes, those other two live versions are very good!

  • Your favorite GENESIS studio albums (pick three)

    Quote from Steve

    OK I'm new on here so don't kill me for preferring the Peter Gabriel era. I loved Genesis in the 70s but lost interest when PG left. I really need to get a copy of ATOTT and perhaps WAW to re asses.


    Foxtrot

    Selling England by the Pound

    Nursery Cryme

    If you like the Gabriel era most (and there's nothing wrong with that - how could there be? Without that era, there are no eras after), you should give ATOTT and W&W a listen. You would at least like the music. I always regarded ATOTT as the more proper sequel musically to SEBTP than "The Lamb", which was a wholly unique piece of music in their catalogue.

  • Steven Wilson

    Quote from FeelItComing

    The PT DVD we have is Anesthetize Live in Tilburg 2008. Thanks for your help OFTV.

    Yes, that the "Fear Of A Blank Planet" tour - a very good one! 8)


    You're welcome - I have to say that the band he takes with him on his solo tours is absolutely top-notch! You'll have a great time!

  • Steven Wilson

    Quote from FeelItComing

    We will be seeing him in November. All we have by him is the Porcupine Tree live DVD/Blu Ray. I would appreciate it if some of you could give me some recommendations for some music, either by the band or solo. From what I have heard he will be playing some Porcupine Tree songs he has never played with his own band. Thanks in advance. NB I do realise there were threads on the old forum, but that was then!

    Which PT live DVD do you have? PT has one from their last three tours, i.e., for "Deadwing", "Fear Of A Blank Planet", and "The Incident".


    On SW solo tours, he does tend to play mostly (and sometimes exclusively) his solo material. If he is playing PT songs live now, 1) that is most welcome, and 2) I bet he's leaning on the very early albums because PT back then was mostly just him. (If someone has seen him recently, let me/us know if this is accurate for his live performance selections.)


    I love Porcupine Tree (and desperately want them to reunite), and I love his production work with King Crimson, Yes, XTC, etc. However, if I am brutally honest, I don't love his solo career. I like it, but it's just not my cup of tea. His solo career is very jazz-rock fusion prog; I personally prefer prog that has rock as its foundation - thus, my preference for PT.


    He has released a "best of" of sorts for his solo career so far called "Transience" - that might be a good place to start:


    https://burningshed.com/store/…even_wilson_transience_cd


    If you click around the Burning Shed site, you'll find everything SW and PT you could ever hope for. Happy hunting and listening! :)

  • Best live version of "Whodunnit"

    This version of "Who Dunnit?" is a good one, and I dislike the song live much less than the studio version.


    The most revealing thing about that song is how it ended up on "Abacab" - from the interview on the DVD from the boxset, Ahmet Ertegun himself (Mr. Cofounder-of-Atlantic-Records) lobbied for the song's inclusion. Who would have ever predicted that?

  • Re-arrange Genesis albums

    I did this for IT back on the old forum:


    Anything She Does

    Tonight, Tonight, Tonight

    Land Of Confusion

    Do The Neurotic (full version)


    Invisible Touch

    Feeding The Fire

    Domino

    Throwing It All Away



    The other albums I've always liked the way they were ordered. A possible Abacab for me would have been:


    Abacab

    No Reply At All

    Me And Sarah Jane

    Keep It Dark

    Naminanu


    Dodo/Lurker

    Submarine

    You Might Recall

    Man On The Corner

    Like It Or Not

    Another Record (I never understood the hate for the last two songs - of course, they are far from the best songs they ever recorded, but they aren't as awful as some think either)


    (yes, this makes for a long Abacab, but they were no strangers to giving those who mastered records a challenging time - they had so many songs then they could have considered a double album too w/ all the 3 x 3 tracks added)



    Even thought it's my favorite Genesis album, I've even wondered about this potential "Wind And Wuthering":


    Eleventh Earl Of Mar

    One For The Vine

    Your Own Special Way (another song where I never understood the hate)

    Please Don't Touch (Steve really wanted the G version of this to be on W&W)


    Inside And Out

    Blood On The Rooftops

    Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers

    In That Quiet Earth

    Afterglow


    (I know there are some who really like "All In A Mouse's Night", but I'm not the biggest fan - musically, it's great; lyrically, umm...)



    Without putting a full ordering, it would have been nice to have "It's Yourself" on ATOTT, and for "Twilight Alehouse" to have found a home on an album too.

  • Yes

    Quote from OneForTheVine

    I'll tell you what might make you reevaluate the "Relayer"/Moraz version of the band is to listen to some of the live performances from his time with Yes - those shows were absolute blinders! I love Wakeman and his time with Yes, both studio and live; however, the Moraz live shows were jaw-droppingly awesome. 8)

    Quote from slowdancer

    The only live albums, I have, are Yessongs and Keys to Ascension I and II (also the dvd).

    If you can, pick up "Yesshows" - the "Going For The One"/"Tormato" live tracks (and early tracks) have Wakeman on the keys, but, on "Gates of Delirium" and "Ritual", Moraz shines through. Those albums you already have are very good. :thumbup:

  • Yes

    Quote from slowdancer

    As I said in another thread, I have become a fan of Yes in 2004. I have all their albums. My personal favourites probably differ from the taste of the average Yes fan. I am not that keen on Relayer, but have a soft spot for Union, which is normally regarded as one of their weaker ones. The Yes Album, Fragile and Close To The Edge are real highlights, but I also love the Trevor Rabin - dominated albums. I saw them live only once during the Fly From Here - tour.


    I find it highly remarkable, that any new member is allowed to incorporate his personal style into the music. Patrick Moraz, Trevor Rabin and of course The Buggles had a strong impact on the sound of the band. That is why it is really true, that Yes are musical chameleons, which is not a bad thing....

    Yes, many Yes fans (including some of the band themselves) are not fond of "Union". Rick Wakeman jokingly nicknamed it "Onion" because he said it made him cry every time he listened to it. I like it fine, mostly because it led to the Union tour (which was stellar). Really, the problem with "Union" is that they had the wrong producer for it, and the label was far too involved in its creation - music should be left to the musicians, not the "suits".


    Yes, it is amazing how much each permutation of the band reflects the members, old and new. There is a core "Yes sound" and the current members for any given album sculpt it into a new creation. I really liked "Fly From Here" too - that album also divides opinion. The tour for it was great! The Rabin-era is actually what made me a Yes fan in the first place - that's why I'm amused by older fans who dismiss him and his involvement in the history of the band. I would have never discovered the older Yes without the 90125 Yes - and there are many Yes fans who got their start in the same way.


    I'll tell you what might make you reevaluate the "Relayer"/Moraz version of the band is to listen to some of the live performances from his time with Yes - those shows were absolute blinders! I love Wakeman and his time with Yes, both studio and live; however, the Moraz live shows were jaw-droppingly awesome. 8)

  • Neil Young

    You can't go wrong with "Rust Never Sleeps". :thumbup:


    I agree about his sons too - that just shouldn't be allowed (for anyone)... :|