Posts by Lazlor

    Again, I have to disagree with yet another harsh dismissal of After the Ordeal. But yes I know loads of fans dislike it so anyway, there it is.

    Personally I think SEBTP is far superior to Foxtrot and much more consistent, with Battle being the only weak point for me.

    Somehow, I don't feel those two albums belong in the same world. Foxtrot is more dystopian, while SEBTP might be a Lewis Carroll soundtrack. But I love 'em with a passion, including Battle, even though I'd really like to find a vocals-free version of it (same goes for the whole of the Lamb album).

    Seriously, guys – yes, The Battle of Epping Forest is packed to the brim with sarcastic words and gorgeous LesPaul/synth lines - so what? Are you gonna tell me that after all this time, you haven't found your way through its wonderful sonic thickets? :)

    I know some of you feel I've been trolling (can't help it – I'm French :S), but really: is it so difficult to realise that the first few albums were game-changing – exceptional works in all respects, while the later output still lags far behind Nik Kershaw's concurrent output (which I happen to love)?

    While we seem to share the same taste regarding the excess of saccharine, I have a hard time comparing MfM with stuff they did later. I don't think they wrote it, recorded it and released it under the illusion and with the intention that it would become a big hit, like they did with , say, Into deep or Hold on my heart which proved them right and Never a time which proved them wrong. All of them quite horrendous BTW. It's just a little, harmless thing they wrote I guess, without second thoughts, just for fun.

    I'm probably being er... retroactively unfair.

    The song's quite nice, and the chorus's melody is even better. I guess what I object to is the fact that it's just that: a song – that over-milked beast that everybody and their dog have been suckling on for the last 3000 years.

    Let's be clear about one thing: I'm never saying that the Remnant's music is actually quite bad – okay, it often is, but the point lies elsewhere: the more or less natural process through which they ended up ruling MTV (remember it?) was one of devolution inasmuch as what was for all INTENSIVE (LOL) purposes an EXTRAORDINARY band finally turned into a purveyor of perfectly average pop tunes.

    Fine, let's continue here.

    The Farmer: I do like Fading Lights, and the We Can't Dance album. But they're just not on the same plane as the classics.

    PG and SH leaving the band... That was so long ago that I don't even quite remember how I reacted on hearing the news. Not with shock, though, I'm pretty sure of that: I was into a lot of other bands as well.

    What I do resent, however, is Banks, Rutherford and Collins sh*tting all over their legacy by not having Gabriel (who probably can't be arsed anyway) and Hackett (who'd probably say yes and who never stopped playing the stuff that matters) on board for this last go round the live circuit.

    You assume I've been both coolly winding you guys up and jumping up and down with frustrationcan't have both ;)

    I'm doing neither of those things. I'm just a proghead (hate that term) with a long (and cool, if uncool) view of things. Never thought I'd push so many buttons with such a few posts. Have to say I assumed that so late in the game most people here would have come to realise where the abovemention lad... er legacy lies.

    I'm sorry that I derailed this thread. I do resent hearing about a new tour by an incarnation of the band that has lost absolutely everything that made me cherish it in the first place, but there has to be a better place to hold the current discussion.

    Can a moderator split the thread so that we can continue without spoiling it for those who'd rather talk about this latest reunion? Is it even possible on this board?

    Thanks in any case.

    Now, now, you kind of did, ATM machines were mentioned, if you are going to be inflammatory then just be it till the end. ;)

    Well, to me 'selling out' implies a conscious move to please a mass market, which we can probably all agree isn't the case here.

    I did say they had to make a living, and also that I don't hold it against them. After all, you can only be a starving artist for so long.

    As we know, the process that led to the big hits was gradual, and they probably just stuck to a path that brought well-deserved rewards.

    More power to them.

    Doesn't mean I have to be blind to the fact that the music suff... er changed beyond recognition

    hence my tendency to see the three-man Genesis as a different band.

    I absolutely love that when you quoted me, it italicized the face palm emoji, somehow reminding me of Pornography by the Cure!

    OT: Lazlor I find your take on Genesis singularly depressing and one dimensional. I became a fan in 1991 and absolutely love Feeding The Fire and Calling All Stations. In your head this is blind love from an indiscriminating fan

    Hell yeah. And why not? I don't mind a bit of cheese myself, from time to time.

    But again, it's never a bad idea to get a little perspectiveand those songs are definitely not what Genesis is all about or will be remembered for (if at all)

    Kudos for thinking there are potential fans out there, thoughminus a few points for thinking they mightn't listen with their ears.

    Look, love for any given band can be a great thing, but you can't let it blind you to the reality, in this case, of a great original rock band devolving into purveyors of nondescript pap.

    Also, if you can't take a strongly divergent opinion without resorting to name-calling, you probably need to take a step back and go for a walk or something ;)

    Hugs & kisses from the toobox

    Of course we're not, as you well know. It's the same band, however unpalatable that is to your delicate, skewed sensibilities.

    A very dogmatic, fanboyish view.

    He's just flashing his arse at you, thinking he's being impishly clever but seemingly not realising he's just making himself look pathetic.

    Now you're being vulgar.

    Fabrizio, I'm not trolling.

    I'm not saying the three-man band only put out rubbish (should have been more specific yesterday) - only that none of their output stands up to the classic albums.

    It's a rather banal view that can only incense besotted fans of a band that was a shadow of its former self long before they called it a day.

    Thing is, the need to make a living is a (the only) redeeming feature AFAIC - wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise, and probably shouldn't have.

    You do realize that saying HBTS is your favourite Genesis song is akin to claiming that Shakespeare's last letter to his landlord has to be his finest work, dontcha? ;)

    Do you think Wot Gorilla is better than Home By The Sea?

    Honest question, I'm not looking to be judgemental.

    Please be judgmental - otherwise we're all gonna get back to sleep ;)

    And yes, Wot Gorilla by a country mile. It has er... b*lls, imagination, and it doesn't outstay its welcome, while Home By The Sea is the apotheosis of the snooze fest hinted at by One For the Vine.

    Everything being equal to everything else?

    'The band would cringe' - which band exactly? ;)

    Forget any purported 'intellectual calisthenics': the truth of the matter is we had THE 'prog' band, a band that pretty much defined an era thanks to its honest approach to making both ambitious and accessible musicone that opened 'lontananze d'azzurro' (Franco Battiato reference) to countless disenfranchised children of the Seventies, at a time when what you might call art mattered, a time before absolutely everything became ruled by accountants and fashion designers.

    Then that band turned into something else entirely, which I will refrain from defining for fear of sounding like 'a smart person with refined tastes' ;)

    OK, I'm not one for reining in (much) my (refined) views: one of those bands made art, the other made money - simple as that.

    I'm not entirely sure this is what Lazlor was saying, though I'm sure he/she will confirm or otherwise. But regardless, I really like how you express this as it certainly does nicely rebut a certain kind of old prog-head attitude I see and hear often. As you said, it's one thing to say "Wind & Wuthering was the last proper album they did" when that means "I don't like anything they did after Hackett left" which, although it's not a view I share, I think is fair enough. But when it comes with this much more dogmatic assertion that everything post-Hackett or post-Duke is definitively rubbish because it isn't Cinema Show or Vine and it earned them hit singles and huge audiences, that's what I have a problem with.

    It's on the same part of the spectrum as another gripe I've heard before, that when they packed out stadiums and mega-arenas on the IT tour it mainly wasn't "proper" Genesis fans, and only "true" fans would appreciate the old songs in the set. Now that really is arrogant codswallop.

    There are no 'old prog-heads' as opposed to new ones.

    Only progheads (for lack of a better word) on the one hand, and blind love from indiscriminating fans on the other hand.

    Which is OK, again - happiness lies in lack of perspective ;)


    Are you sure? The manner and frequency with which you mention their latter-career earnings suggests you do have some kind of problem with it.

    What are the 'blind spots' you refer to?

    It's a problem only from a musical/artistic point of view.

    Regarding the 'muse' thing: you guys might reread what I wrote, 'cos it infers nothing pretentious at all ;)