Posts by foxfeeder

    You are correct about Tonight's The Night. However, for me it remains one of the most overrated albums ever made. It isn't that I don't relate to the loss he felt. It is just that the songs are not that good. Critics love albums like this (and indeed the one I mentioned, Blood On The Tracks) because they seem to think 'naked emotion' and 'rawness' etc have more critical value than 'positive' songs.

    Plus critics love to make themselves look "cool" and more intellectual than they almost ever are! ;)

    To add to the above, as recently as December I discovered I worked with closet Genesis fans who went to see them, and they were disappointed that there were no Phil Collins songs played.

    Also on the topic of phil as the bad guy in Genesis. I firmly believe the guy is almost a genius musically, and as talented as Tony and Mike are, they are not geniuses really. Phil didn't make them a pop monstrosity, but through his ability he enabled Tony's (and to a lesser extent Mike's) ambitions to be a rock star. To some extent he was a translator for their language to the mainstream. None of us can know how music of today will be judged in 400 years time but I'd like to think that if any artist was labeled "misunderstood" it would be Phil. Popular hack? No. Godlike multivalent talent? Yes.

    And to finish, I do much prefer the compositional beefiness that Banks/Rutherford added to Genesis than I do Phil solo. I think they are unbelievably good, as evidenced by CAS being in my top 3 Genesis albums and above any Phil solo album. It's just that IT could have been The Fugitive 2 without Phil. Yes, the tour would have been Tuesday night at the Odeon instead of 3 nights at Wembley Stadium!

    There are a few bands like that, I think, where the sum of the parts exceeds the individual talents, as they bring the best out of each other. Queen is another, the solo albums all have enormous weak spots (Except Roger's "Happiness?") which display how, for example, Brian's metal excesses get pulled back by the others.

    Alternate reality here, I know what you're saying but I think back to what happened in 1997-98 and I think 99% of bands would be ecstatic at what they achieved. Number 2 album in the UK, a lot of success in Europe, an arena tour etc. ie "fail like before" to me should be "succeed like before". I hate that MR particularly was of the opinion that if they didn't have the same level of success as before then why bother. I thought they had a great thing going. I lament that they ended the way they did while acknowledging the reality of the situation.

    Good point. Almost every musical act has a heyday of 3 or 4 years, then continues with a small dedicated fanbase for decades, think Nik Kershaw, Howard Jones, Toyah, Gary Numan, Marillion, and a whole lot more. It's not like they'd even had that megastardom for the first 3 or 4 years. Makes you wonder if MR's motivation was the art or the money. Yes, I know they all want to make money, but most are happy to make a decent living, and he no longer even needed to do that.

    Agree re the Moodies and Hayward, for me Steve's best is GR2 at the Royal A hall.

    Another recommendation is Nanci Griffith, One Fair Summer Evening, either CD or however you can get it on video, I have the VHS.

    I know that the general consensus on the forum is that Genesis are now over as a touring outfit, but part of me feels that if Glastonbury came knocking for a one off headline slot on maybe a Sunday or the Sunday legend slot they may well be tempted. This would give them a lot of exposure on the Tv Worldwide and thus increase record and cd sales. Does anyone else think this is possibly one of the only reasons another show could happen someday?.

    Given that they are playing below par these days, and they are clearly aware of this, hence the "no live DVD/BR" decision, I'd say that was the reason this would not happen.

    Rod Argent of course had his own band, imaginatively called Argent, best known for the hit Hold Your Head High.

    Hold your head UP (covered by Fish on his Songs from the mirror album), and also God Gave Rock 'n' Roll to you.

    I'm with you as far as GR2 not being that good, as it's the only Hackett studio album I don't have; I listened to it once and never wanted to hear any of it again. But in which cases would you say the versions on GR improve on the originals? I never thought that any of them improved on the originals, and that only a couple of them (FAF, YOSW) were even worthwhile alternate versions.

    Well, aside from YOSW, which Hackett reinvents so much it's on a different planet (Earth!) (and which I can't help thinking that using Paul Carrack as vocalist on is very much "making a point" given Carrack's membership of another band at the time), Watcher and FoF are already both better, but including Bill Bruford on drums just takes it to another level. Not that Phil isn't great on the originals, but Bill has what it takes to re-arrange and not ruin them, which any other drummer couldn't have done. Fountain also is an improvement in places, EXCEPT for the vocals, which would have been better either not using the deep voice effect, or a different vocalist.

    FAF: I can see some would think it better, but the simplicity of the original, and the fact that the observations of the song by 2 lads aged 20 about the elderly are just a triumph as they stand.

    😮 . All her albums are almost perfect except for the perfect ones and Lionheart which doesn't match up to her general level of greatness. That's a scientific fact. Here's the proof. K(5x10+5x9)-6=G. Speaks for itself doesn't it.

    Yeah, but don't forget, E=md2 (Einstein had trouble with autocorrect too! :))

    Regarding female vocalists, I think the best ones are head and shoulders better than the best male vocalists, but mostly, they are not songwriters, which leaves them as hostages to songwriters and producers who often choose their songs. KAte Bush is one exception, but her work is patchy, and while Hounds of Love almost made my list, particularly as side 2 is the best thing she has ever done, there are a couple of weak tracks on side 1, IMO.

    You are right, this is waaaaay too big a list. There are a few you mention that I'd go for too, but how far back to go? In The Mood by Glenn Miller, for example.

    #Backdrifter: Before And After Science is definitely a good call here.

    #Foxfeeder: speaking of Al Stewart, I would also think of Year Of The Cat. I also have that Rainbirds album you mentioned. They did that one album and disappeared into the ether after that. Another perfect album by a German band would be Rockpommel`s Land by Grobschnitt.

    great thread by the way.


    Year of the Cat has too many weak tracks for me, always thought it overrated. Rainbirds did have another album I think, but Katherina Frank did stuff on her own.