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It absolutely is their decision, as is the set list. They went out on their terms and can only be applauded for it.
What Tony Banks said on Radio Rich Pickings, was that in a year or two (ie after the dust settles) they may revisit the idea of a live album or DVD/BD release. For now, I would imagine they're all wanting to take a rest and a break from Genesis.
Genesis have never been a commercially oriented band, and although this is somewhat reassuring, they have put out less material than most bands of their stature. Still hoping for a blu ray (or 4k, depending on source quality) release of When in Rome.
Tony Smith is commercially orientated....
But the band would certainly be in a position to say "no" to a live release.
In Richard Macphail's latest "Radio Rich Pickings" Tony Banks appears not to rule out a future release though....
Is there evidence that it was ever video recorded in full? For example Pete's Shepton Mallet stuff is only partial, as far as I know.
I would be prepared to believe that there's a soundboard cassette or three in the archive....which would be better than anything that has surfaced so far. Whether we'll ever hear it is another matter. I get the feeling Peter and perhaps MIke are adamant that the show was a one off, and best experienced on the day. There were mistakes, flubs, miscues....which were forgiven due to the occasion but would seem odd on an official release.
Maybe not odd to us, we'd lap it up, but to the masses who wouldn't be fully aware what they were buying. Especially if it had come out in circa 1983.
Maybe they'll get bored in retirement and start releasing soundboard recordings. Or maybe a certain Mr. Collins will decide to leak some of his personal collection again....allegedly....
There's lots they could have done....but in the end they did what they wanted. Two years ago when they announced the tour, they said that Nic drummed like a young Phil and that gave them the opportunity to play some material that was *very* old and hadn't been done in a *long* time....but in the end they decided they didn't like how it sounded. Which is also probably why they haven't played certain songs since 1980 or 1982. Perhaps sad that they no longer love these songs that they wrote and which mean so much to us...but nothing much we can do to change that.
Yes, the set was "safe". But it was also the material Genesis collectively wanted to play/sing.
The DVD of "When In Rome" contains at least one 'correction'. Phil made a mistake drumming during Firth of Fifth which is miraculously not present on the released DVD but is on audience recordings.
Nothing wrong with this, though wholesale re-recording like Gabriel did for his "Peter Gabriel Plays Live" is perhaps over the top. A live album could be made and if they feel a small number of corrections or overdubs are needed, so be it. A live album could also omit a handful of songs if they feel they're not desirable for release.
But ultimately it's their choice. I am sure that fans will gather together the best audience footage and edit together something. But there's no substitute for a pro-shot, multi camera, multi-track and pro mixed video.
I'm always reminded of something Mike said in the documentary "Genesis - A History" which was released around 1989. Talking of how everyone in Genesis went on to have solo careers and successful outside projects, he said "I suppose being in a band is a bit unhealthy after the first few years".
Ultimately the timing of Steve's first solo record can be viewed in (at least) two ways.
1...proved there was still a market and hunger for Genesis style music without Peter Gabriel singing and dressing up in his costumes
2....Took attention away from the band at just the time they needed attention focussed on them to establish a post-Gabriel career.
I get the impression that Mike and Tony saw the latter at the time, but later realised they felt similar pressures...the need to let off steam by making records outside of the band using material either unsuited to Genesis or which they had been unable to get through the "democratic process". Phil had always done side gigs, of course. However much I see it as (1), I can understand how it was viewed as a threat at a time when it was far from certain how Genesis would be received with a new singer, and without Pete.
Steve reached that point of feeling the band was unhealthy for him in 1975, which continued into 1976/77 as he blossomed as a writer. Perhaps the others didn't feel it until a couple of years later. In the end everyone did feel they had to engage in outside projects to explore different musical avenues or simply as an outlet for material they'd written and wanted to record. That gave us Phil's solo career, Mike's albums and The Mechanics, Tony's solo career and classical albums.
It's a shame they didn't all see, back in 1975, that Steve could have had parallel solo careers but the others all felt they needed to push ahead full steam ahead keeping Genesis in the spotlight.
The only glimmer of light regarding Peter is an interview he gave a few years ago when Phil was re-releasing his solo albums, before his Not Dead Yet tour. Peter mentioned that other bands of the era had lost members (likely thinking of Chris Squire and Rick Wright), while the members of Genesis were all still there. He mentioned something about considering doing it "while it was still possible".
One doesn't need to know much about Peter to know that isn't a commitment to perform with Genesis again. If anything, he still seems very reluctant to revisit the songs he sang with Genesis.
I have a suspicion that in a few years they may regret not at least filming it properly. When the dust has settled, and they're well and truly retired...they may regret not recording it, just like they regretted not filming The Lamb or the Six Of The Best gig.
That said, it is entirely their decision. And maybe we will eventually hear their reasons for it. It's a shame because the show looks spectacular and any flubs could have been gently ironed out during the production of a Blu-Ray or even cinema film. But it's their decision, and one must assume they have good reasons. They gave us this final tour, which is far more than we could have hoped for a few years ago.
There is still the possibility, even if it's in a couple of years, of a live album. Some songs were reworked for this tour and are very different to any previously released or performed material.
People keep asking him the question in interviews. Just like they still ask Peter. And every time Genesis have gone on tour since the late 70s, they've been asked if Peter or Steve will be joining them "this time out".
It would be rude of Steve not to answer. Perhaps the best version of hisanswer was given in Richard Macphail's book. He elaborates a little more there.
Steve certainly isn't Roger Waters. Roger has gripes and demons that he never seems to deal with successfully, and comes across as man with a lot of anger - not all of it righteous. As one contemporary journalist said of prog gigs in the 70s....you could go to a King Crimson concert and feel the band were daring you to be in the same room as them...or a Pink Floyd concert where the bass player stomped around, scowled and even spat at the audience...or "welcome to the world of Genesis".
I just cannot see any reunion, it seems very unlikely that Tony or Mike will want to guest on Steve's shows, and accepting that Phil is done with Genesis, a new singer would have to be found and the last time this happened it wasn't a happy experience. I think Steve would have been up for a reunion anytime over the past couple of decades but this has always been unlikely as evidenced by the BBC doc. Also, Steve left abruptly in the 70s and I doubt Tony has forgiven him! It's just wishful thinking and teasing from Steve.
I get the impression that Mike may not have fully forgiven him. Tony possibly has. He's even given a few interviews lately where he states that he misses writing with Steve. But with Tony, who knows? His sense of humour is a bit dark sometimes ("we mixed him out of the album" still does the rounds) and he's difficult to read emotionally....product of the English traditional public school system. Mike has learned to display his emotions more.
My knowledge of all things Tony Banks isn't infallible, but I don't recall him ever guesting with another live act or really appearing on anyone else's work. He's not especially fond of performing and still sees himself primarily as a songwriter, rather than performer. While he undoubtedly could guest with any Genesis tribute band, Steve's band, The Mechanics or pretty much anyone he asked....it just doesn't seem to be something that interests him.
As I've mused before, Tony Banks can do anything because he's Tony Banks....but what he wants to do may be to put on his slippers and play Return of The Giant Hogweed on his grand piano at home. Now personally I'd pay to hear that. But Tony himself would likely prefer behind closed doors.
Steve has consistently stated that he'd be up for a reunion for the last 20 years or so. Possibly longer, he just wasn't on the internet much in the 90s. What did he say recently?
As for a new studio album, I strongly get the impression that they have no desire in making one. The Farm is no longer a working studio, no mixing desk any more...the control room is half empty from recent photos. I'm sure they could put together an album, perhaps using some of the newly worked songs alongside a few new ones. But in the end, Genesis is what Mike, Tony and Phil want it to be. And they want to lay it to rest.
I'd take the attitude that while there's life, there's hope. It is not impossible that Genesis could be reactivated but the chances are small and I'm at peace with this being the end. And what a way to bow out....one of the best stage shows they've ever had, the last song performed being The Carpet Crawlers, bowing out with the audience and fans worldwide wanting that little bit more but while still at the top. Biggest grossing rock tour of the first quarter of 2022.
What I do hope for, despite apparently a denial from their management, is a full live album.
Nic has been pretty reliable in the interviews he's given, other than giving the impression that Apocalypse in 9/8 would be played on this tour. And he's given a couple of interviews recently referring to his dad retiring after this tour is over.
I believe that is Phil's intention, to retire with the audience wanting more. His unlikely comeback as a solo artist and with Genesis didn't see him at his very best, but he gave his all and left us still wanting to see him again. Bravo, that is the way to go out. The only caveat, and I do see it as a caveat rather than a hope, is that Phil seems to come alive and be at his happiest when he's singing on stage. In time he may miss that and decide to do some more concerts, even if it's not a full on tour. And it will all depend on his health.
Ultimately for them all, the world is their stage. It's up to them individually and collectively. Mike & The Mechanics were active until right before this Genesis tour and could pick up where they left off. Tony doesn't have any live side projects and has always maintained that he doesn't see himself as a performer....but honestly if he chose he could put something together, guest with any Genesis related band or tribute band he chose, write songs with Steve Hackett (anyone else noticed Tony's mentioned missing that in recent interviews), or just put on his slippers and play Hogweed in his living room. Ultimately, though he may not see it this way, he's Tony Freakin' Banks and can do whatever he wants. I'm sure Daryl will find receptive musicians, he's well versed in many styles of music and very versatile. Nic's stock must be sky high and he'll be in demand.
RUmour has it that Gabriel is working on his I/O project again so we may yet see him take the stage again. Steve is being Steve, touring successfully, releasing albums that chart quite well. Ant is being Ant...making bread and butter from library music and himself available for Genesis related interviews...and his body of work speaks for itself.
As for a guest appearance by Gabriel or any other alumnus....I think that Phil singing Genesis out with Carpet Crawlers was just perfect. If Gabriel had come on stage last night it might have been better for him to sing something else earlier in the set. Or at an earlier gig. Ditto Steve or anyone else had they appeared. This was the line-up of Genesis that existed for more time than any other. Not my favourite but the best known, most successful, longest lasting...those three are close friends who have shared 50+ years of Genesis together. While it's clear that everyone still seems to get on with Pete, RIchard Macphail and probably Steve, this was a celebration of the trio plus Daryl.
Maybe it would have been appropriate for Peter and RIchard (who were in attendance) to take a a bow with everyone? Maybe Peter just didn't want to. In the end, we must understand that these guys did the tour *they* wanted to do...played and sang the songs they wanted to play...they did it their way. And it was a tremendous success. So long, and thanks for all the fish. If there are more fish from any of the (ex) members in the future, I'll consume them. But if not....they leave a fantastic body of work.
Nic mentioned before the tour that he had practiced at least parts of Watcher of the Skies and Supper’s Ready. My impression is that they were at least considering those songs but set them aside due to the difficulty in playing songs like that for the first time in 40 years.
They rehearsed them right at the beginning. No visuals were ever designed for these and it's unclear how long the band spent on them. Possibly as little as one or two tries. Mike and Tony have both stated that they sounded "too old" and the idea of playing them was dropped. They also tried The Musical Box.
Didn't seem to be anything to do with them being too difficult to play. The band just decided they didn't fit with the rest of the set.
I was a bit surprised that Apocalypse in 9/8 didn't emerge, because Nic stated two things in several interviews....that he would only mention titles of songs that made the set and that he specifically enjoyed Apocalypse. But it now seems it was dropped after the very first rehearsal dates.
You and I may well feel this is a shame, as opening to Watcher and having Apocalypse in there somewhere would have been magical...but if they specifically didn't enjoy trying them out, we can't expect them to appear.
I would love to be proved wrong and for Genesis to play themselves out at the O2 with Watcher or Apocalypse. But I shall not be holding my breath.
All those songs you guys are making this "petition" is a real FAR cry of what Genesis is about today and has been for the past two decades.
Come on, let's be real, they can't play those songs not only because Phil no longer have the range but also because they are more now about the Genesis trio (post Duke) of the 80's-90's period.
If you want to hear songs like Supper's ready and others from Wind & Wuthering, go see Steve Hackett's Genesis Revisited Band, you'll be happy instead of begging for a miracle.
The simple, if somewhat sad, fact is that.....they could play any of those songs. They could find a way to match Phil's current vocal range, just as they've done with Mama, Duchess and the other transposed songs.
The fact is, they don't want to. Understandably they play what the three of them all want to play. And since 1982 or so, they've not felt like bringing out much of the *really* old stuff. That's not what they want to play, and it's not what the majority of the audience want to hear.
Yes, it's a shame that the men who wrote One For The Vine or Supper's Read will never again play those songs. But it is what it is. Enjoy Genesis for what they are today, because this almost certainly is your last chance.
Steve will no doubt continue for a few more years, his shows are successful. Peter hasn't sung more than a couple of lines of a Genesis song in 40 years. Mike might occasionally add an 80s Genesis hit to a Mechanics set list. Nic reckons Phil will retire again after this. Tony....could theoretically lend his services to guest with any tribute band (or even Steve's) to thunderous and rapturous applause but has never shown any desire to do so. Likely late March 2022 will be the last time he performs anything in public.
Sad, perhaps. But that's what they want. And in the end, they're not our performing monkeys. They're human beings.
I wonder if they'll change the visuals for Land of Confusion to reference/show support for Ukraine?
Sad that some 40 years after the song/video was originally released the subject is still very much alive and real.
I think that people expecting this do not understand the time, effort and money required to make even changes to one song's visuals.
The visuals will not change. And there will be no truly unexpected songs performed live. The only remote possibilities are Jesus He Knows Me or Abacab, both of which have visuals ready to go.
And of course "Match Of The Day" was (and I think remains) the BBC's football show on TV. I don't follow football but that title is part of the national consciousness.
Indeed footballers were known to make a lot of money even back then, but their careers were relatively short. Many bought pubs or nightclubs while still playing at the top so they'd have both a business and a social outlet after they retired. "to clean up" means to make lots of money. So the reference is probably that they "clean up every week" when they earn on the pitch. And the boutique is both a reference to owning a side business and the Monty Python sketch. Football was seen as masculine then so a player opening a boutique was quite Python-esque humour....but it doesn't have to refer to a literal boutique, it could simply mean a small side business too.
"inciting riots, causing chaos, such a shame" is definitely a reference to the football hooligans of the time. As best I can make out, it started out with fan rivalries and ended up with groups of louts who only attended football matches for the violence. By 1977 when this was recorded it was a big problem which grew into the 80s before getting a lot better....but it's still present. A big part of why football has never appealed to me is the fans. I don't have even the vaguest understanding why I must hate Team B if I support Team A. Nor does it appeal to me to insult Team B's players or supporters. But it boiled over into quite sickening violence connected with footballl, even if by the 80s most of the protagonists weren't actually there to enjoy the football at all.
Phil wrote the lyric, one of his earlier attempts, as he is into football. I know he now dislikes the lyric and song in general, but I think it has it's moments....describing the goalies' "arms as long as creepers" is a good one. The more or less light-hearted digs at referees. Musically it is rather light but it helped Genesis in the public consciousness and the "Spot The Pigeon" EP was a significant UK hit before they broke through with FYFM.
I saw an interview with Tony Banks where he said he was never happy with that line as "nobody knows what it means".
I always took the entire song to be about a man who's happy with his lot, employed to tend the grounds at the local park and specifically to mow the grass. And he is OK with that....has no desire to heed the advice of those around him who urge him to do "better" jobs and to climb that social ladder. He's happy where he is. "getting better in your wardrobe" could be a reference to the rather vapid pursuit of fashion clothing or simply refer to skillsets. He knows what he likes, and he likes what he knows....you can "better" yourselves if you want but you may end up less happy than him.
Fountain of Salmacis. Possibly my favourite Genesis song. Never before or after did Tony write or play a more dramatic, swirling chord sequence....the twinkling Hammond over the 'tron during the intro which repeats later in the song is just *perfection*. I love the lyric and the way Peter sings it (ably backed up by Phil). I love Steve's solo near the end and the little flourishes he does throughout. Phil's drumming is mostly subtle on this one...while the main musical motifs are driven along by Mike's perfect bass lines. I'm not sure it ever got better.....though clearly Supper's Ready and a handful of other tracks are in the same league.
Honourable mention to The Musical Box.
HP has since said the drums on the album make him cringe now and he wishes they could remaster the album to include acoustic drums.
This is good to know.
Kind of in his defence, a lot of records sounded like that at the time. Though given his desire to make records that sounded like the listener is sitting next to a drummer.....it's an odd choice. IT wasn't out of place for 1986 but it has aged very badly. Maybe they really could redo it with Nic replacing Phil's drums, keeping everything else original and *not* brickwalling it. I'd buy it.
Drum machines, especially in the 80s, had a fresh and new sound and could be programmed by non-drummers to make demos and records. They could also sometimes do things real drum(mers) couldn't. Electric drums, as used by Phil and Bill Bruford in the mid 80s, have not stood the test of time in my opinion.
Not a huge fan of the IT album either, but I can forgive the title track being in the set. It actually sounds better live than on the record, the drums drive it along far better than the rather tepid drum sound on the record....ironic since Hugh Padgham started out wanting to record drums that sounded like you're sitting next to the drummer and not "like so many 70s records, where it sounded like the drummer was in a cardboard box". It's also their biggest US hit, and is well known in the UK. Phil has always enjoyed it.
But another song Phil really enjoys is Supper's Ready. He wanted to play it on the WCD tour for it's 20th anniversary. We know they rehearsed it from Apocalypse onwards in 2020, Nic stated this on many occasions and he enjoyed it. I have a feeling Mike doesn't like it these days. Not wishing to denigrate Mike but his opinion on a lot of the earlier stuff is now the most negative within the band.
People confidently said Phil couldn't possibly sing Mama and he's done it. Albeit at a different key. We don't know what changes they made to the original or whether they tried doing an instrumental but Phil has done a heck of a lot better than most people thought he would.
