Posts by absinthe_boy

    Listened to three complete concerts now. The only bit I am unsure works is the new working of The Lamb. I know some like it, and I assume the band does, but I could dispense with it. From what both Tony and Nic say, I assume they tried adding the closing section of The Musical Box onto it but decided that didn't work.

    The idea that something will be dropped in favour of Abacab seems likely for the upcoming US shows. I can't see them simply adding another 6-9 minutes to the show. That would seem unfair to the British audiences. Abacab was a major hit single here.

    I wonder if it might take the place of TIOA? Does that get played stateside? It was not a significant hit there.

    Sorry if this has been asked before but will there be a DVD/live CD of the tour? As a continental European I am not going to attend any shows, I would purchase a live disc by any means.

    Well....we know the "dress rehearsals" were filmed so that they could be streamed/released in the event of the tour being cancelled due to Covid. Presumably they'll see the light of day in some form.

    I'd love for a proper concert Blu-Ray however....I wonder if they'll professionally film ( the three nights at the O2 next week? And possibly use the dress rehearsal footage as extras.

    I really want to see a live album on vinyl too. things stand, we don't know.

    And we don't know if they might tour Europe next year. Tony Smith long ago said that the plan was to do these UK/US dates then to see how everyone felt about doing more. Bare in mind that all these hypothetical dates will actually already be booked, because venues this size get booked months or even years in advance. If they want to wait a few months and then continue into continental Europe in the spring of 2022, you can bet the venues are already booked. I know Phil has been quoted as saying it's the end after these upcoming shows....but that interview has not actually been published so we don't know the context. He also seems to be really enjoying performing so even if he was reluctant before, might have changed his mind.

    On the DVD/BD/live album and on more tour dates....we just don't know yet.

    I gotta say I'm enjoying the quick appearance of relatively high quality audio and video. Long way from the days of spending an hour downloading a single fuzzy track over dial up!

    I remember the very first MP3 I ever downloaded was the CAS launch at Cape Canaveral in 1997. Was that 10 minutes or so? Took me 30 minutes to download and I then popped it onto a cassette because I had just one PC and it was hooked up to a rather mediocre sound system in my bedroom.

    Some more thoughts. Obviously watching videos shot on phones and live streamed is not anything like being there. I have at least five friends who were at one of the first two concerts and they all had a great time, including one who was healthily sceptical about what to expect - in terms of Phil's singing and the set list.

    I also have perfect pitch so I do always notice songs transposed....but Genesis are far from the only older artists to do this. Elton John has been for many years. The Lord Peter Gabriel himself did when he recorded Lamb overdubs back in the late 90s for the box set. It's not a surprise and not an option to do anything else other than not sing at all. We all get older. Mama sounds even more creepy in the new key than it ever did. And it's supposed to sound creepy. Duchess somehow sounds right. Other songs, feel a bit different. But I would rather hear them sung by the band who wrote them that way than not at all. Remember folks, after this it's Hackett, tribute bands and karaoke.

    I'm surprised Apocalypse isn't in the set after everything Nic said. It now doesn't even appear to have been rehearsed in October 2020. I am stull unsure about the new arrangement of The Lamb but I do applaud the guys for spending time and effort on trying something different. Overall the concerts worked. Better than most expected. Musically the band is firing on all cylinders. Phil still sounds like Phil, just an older version. He does come alive on stage and is getting more enthusiastic about his banter with the audience. They'll be in the palm of his hand by the time they get to London.

    I managed to catch most of the show on a live stream from the audience. Set list was quite predictable but a good mix of old and new. Phil sounded good for the bulk of the show and really came alive. Started a little weak and sounded like he might be struggling at the end but this is the first show, singers usually get better as a tour goes on.

    I was surprised that Apocalypse in 9/8 wasn't there given what Nic said in several interviews. But c'est la vie. Maybe they'll swap things around a bit for the American leg.

    Thanks AB. I hope my point didn't come across as trashing MR, as that was absolutely not my point. Quite the contrary, having learned so many of his bass and 12-string parts, I have the utmost respect for his playing ability and he is, in fact, vastly underrated on both instruments. It was simply a series of observations from the interview. As you said, there are probably logical answers for their various levels of "excitement" about the tour at the moment.

    As far as coming alive on stage, I've seen it many times... Many years ago, I participated in a Sirius XM Townhall interview of Roger Waters in NYC. On mic, his age definitely showed. He was severely myopic and obviously had pretty intense hearing loss, among other things. However, the next evening, on stage, it's as if someone had injected him with "super juice" lol. It's interesting but I guess 50 years on the road will do that to you. Take care, Andre.

    Oh you did not come across as trashing Mike. I was worried that I might be seen as trashing Mike because I have posted some criticism of him - notably him being the one who doesn't want to play older material...making excuses about not remembering tunings and so on. So I wanted to make it clear that I don't wish to trash Mike, who is a hugely important and integral part of every incarnation of Genesis and who wrote or co-wrote some fantastic songs.

    Interesting memory of Roger Waters there. He's started to look old in recent times too. With Phil, I think a little of Brian Wilson...who we all know is somewhat mentally frazzled and has back problems. I've witnessed him shuffle on stage like a 90 year old man, tentatively begin a gig and by 20 minutes in he's got the attention of every single person in the theatre. By the end he picks up his bass and dances around. Even more interesting, knowing he can be a bit nervous on stage I checked with his "people" before I saw him in 2004 (4th row, SMiLE tour) that it would be OK to take photos with a long lens. I was advised "Brian will turn away from you if he's not comfortable"....well he smiled and mugged for my camera and put on a great show. When I saw him 6 years later, similarly equipped with a SLR camera word got back to me later that he'd recognised me! Not 100% relevant to Genesis but it does all show that aging performers who might seem reluctant and frail when they are interviewed can be 100% with it and capable on stage. Phil seems to come alive when he sings. Hopefully that will be the case for this tour and everyone will have a great time.

    I'm glad you said it AB, as I was thinking the exact same thing. Rutherford is the one who seems to have a pretty strong disdain of earlier material (ok, that might be strong wording) whereas Banks would play way more of it if he had the final say. I think Phil, as evidenced by his attendance of a Musical Box show (and playing one one song) several years ago has also come around to the earlier stuff. In fact (flame throwers coming my way), reading their body language in the BBC morning show interview, I got the distinct impression that Mike was the most gung-ho (by far) in doing this tour whereas Phil was not super enthused (understandably) and Tony was somewhere in the middle. Yes, this may be reading tea leaves but that's the impression I got.

    Phil initially wasn't too keen on the 07 tour either....He'd been told it was a few concerts in major cities rather than a full on tour. You can see the moment he realises it's more than he thought in the documentary on the Rome DVD set. If I remember correctly, there was the stillborn project circa 2003 to remount The Lamb with Peter and Steve. That would also not have been a full on tour but perhaps a dozen or two concerts in major cities around the world. When Pete wouldn't/couldn't commit they decided Steve's involvement was moot and started planning concerts with the 80s/early 90s version of Genesis. Phil was still under the impression this would be 20 concerts...not the 50 or so they ended up doing.

    However it is also Phil who has shown the way for this upcoming tour....his "Not dead yet" tour was on and off for two and a half years. Taking time to rest between relatively short tour legs, it's pretty much a new concept and one that works really well for older artists or anyone who might want to see their family, for example.

    As for Mike, I do not want to trash him. He's been in integral part of Genesis from the start and of The Mechanics for nearly 40 years. He helped write some of my favourite Genesis songs, and The Mechanics have a few really good ones that I like too....he was a phenomenal bass player in the 70s and I don't want to take anything away from that. But it does seem that Mike is the one who doesn't want to play the old material. Tony would probably happily do One For The Vine and even Hogweed if given the chance. I am beginning to think that after this is all put to bed, Tony could consider touring a show featuring his favourite music - Genesis and otherwise....assuming he doesn't feel like guesting with Steve. But then Tony isn't much of a performer. He'd probably be just as happy listening at home in his slippers. He's the one Genesis member who does talk about listening to the old Genesis albums.

    Mike is probably more enthusiastic about the road, he's been touring with The Mechanics during the Genesis hiatus. He's never stopped making new music or touring. Tony has made his orchestral music and gained a lot of satisfaction from finding acceptance by many classical enthusiasts but hasn't toured. Phil took a long time out. Mike is the most "road ready". So it is not so surprising that he's encouraging the others. he's also specifically encouraging Phil, hopefully of the belief that touring is good for his old friend. Phil seems to come alive when he takes the stage. A little like Brian Wilson, perhaps being involved in making music is therapeutic for him.

    Me, I'm just a lawn mower....I find mowing my grass is therapeutic!

    I think that it is one of the older songs that they all really like. I think that is part of the problem with them playing old material. I think it is hard for all three of them to agree on certain older songs. The ones that they do play, it seems that they all still feel strongly about. Most bands are critical about their past and Genesis is one of the most critical.

    I know their attitudes to some of the older material have changed too. Those of us who remember the VHS "Genesis - A History", Phil clearly states that he's not exactly proud of some stuff from their past...that he's more proud of Invisible Touch than the prog songs. These days he's more enthusiastic about the older prog material, especially Supper's Ready.

    Mike seems to have gone off a lot of the older material and prefers the sheen and gloss of the 80s songs. If you watch the 2007 interviews that went with the remasters, Tony certainly rediscovered some moments in Trespass that he'd forgotten. Of all of them I get the impression it is Tony who actually listens to the old albums. But clearly Phil has done some listening recently, he gave an interview where he was talking about how Get 'Em Out By Friday is almost a funky drum groove. I am certain that was not in the rehearsal material. I am equally sure it wasn't on Phil's 90s or noughties play list.

    Whether that all results in them actually playing something they haven't since the 70s or early 80s is still a bit of a mystery. Moonlit Knight looks certain to appear in some form, but while it was dropped from 83 to 07, it is still something of a favourite on other tours. Didn't they do a bit of it on the CAS tour too?

    I actually reckon they won't do IKWIL and Firth of Fifth this time out. The selections from Selling England will be Moonlit Knight and Cinema Show. I really doubt they'd do four songs from that album.

    One thing Genesis has always been good at is creating "flow" in their setlist (some bands are horrible at it) - though ending with Carpet Crawlers in '07 was a bit weird, despite their emotional attachment to the song. So expect a punch in the face as the opener and closer, whatever these might be. I also can't imagine that they won't include an older song in the encore to close that loop. The again, we'll all know soon! Take care.

    I guess we will know in a week and a few hours

    Does anyone know why they are emotionally attached to Carpet Crawlers? I've heard Phil and Tony mention it, but I've never known specifically why.…-sparks-concern-fans.html

    Article about Phil on BBC Breakfast TV This Morning- Can somebody find the video:


    Because The Daily Mail is such a trustworthy, respected and respectful newspaper....

    While I do agree that in interviews Phil seems frail and his speech is a little slow, he comes alive when he sings. I really don't think he enjoys the publicity side of this any more. he just wants to sing and do the gigs.

    And he's made that abundantly clear since first talking about coming out of retirement back in 2016.

    The gvt has always made it abundantly clear that some restrictive measures might have to be reintroduced in the autumn/winter over the next couple of years. While maintaining that they want to avoid another lockdown at virtually all costs.

    The newspapers are, of course, desperate for clicks and sales and generate panic by spouting any guff they can "think" of. What is entirely feasible is that around mid to late October, we might get an extended school half term if it is felt that schools are driving an increase in infections and if that increase is resulting in significantly higher number of hospitalisations and deaths. The weekly death toll has risen, but may still be what the gvt deems "acceptable" - though I realise it isn't acceptable to the relatives of those who die early from Covid-19. It's also conceivable that there will be an indoor mask mandate, and it still defies belief that there are people who make such a fuss over face coverings. I don't especially like them for a variety of reasons but the science is there, proven for decades, they help prevent spread of respiratory disease. They're safe for the vast majority of people to wear. They're not muzzles or some magical symbol of freedom (or oppression. Gods, if wearing a piece of cloth over your face is the most repression you ever face, then you are doing extremelywell).

    I think it highly likely that "vaccine passports" will become some sort of legal requirement to attend large indoor events and clubs. Those restrictions will hopefully be sufficient to prevent a disastrous increase in serious illnesses which will over-run the NHS.

    Either way, I see no changes until mid October....not that I have inside info, I'm just listening to what the politicians actually say rather than through the filter of hysterical newspapers. I also pay attention to people like Whitty and Van-Tam.

    Being a physician, I believe Phil is pretty significantly medicated. Knowing patients that have chronic back issues some of the medications that are used often cause them to have slurred and slow speech. It’s really difficult for me to see Phil like this. It does make me sad. But I commend him for giving it a go and I hope everything goes well.

    He does seem quite slow to articulate in interviews, but comes alive on stage. Some of his singing in the recent documentary, while certainly several tones transposed, was pretty powerful. No, he hasn't got the pipes of a 30 year old or even 50 year old but there's still some strength and power there.

    Regarding the set, I do feel they might not fully realise that all their songs are old and dated now. I Can't Dance is now 10 years older than The Musical Box was when they toured We Can't Dance. Those electronic drum sounds on Invisible Touch, if anything, sound more dated than the Mellotron and organ on Nursery Cryme. And Phil's drumming on the albums from NC up to Duke has aged very well, it's back in fashion. It's a shame if they rehearsed more 70s material and decided not to perform it because they didn't feel it sounded "up to date" rather than because they found it too difficult. though in the end it is up to Mike, Tony and Phil....they play stuff they enjoy, I assume. And if they don't enjoy Watcher or Salmacis, they won't play them.

    I do wonder if things have shifted compared to 07. I'd say back then the vast majority of fans were more familiar with the 80s hits. Though it is a wonderful thing to be surrounded by 60k people chanting "Me, I'm just a lawnmower" and rocking out to Los Endos. But in the intervening years there actually has been more emphasis on the older material in the media with articles describing them as a 70s prog band. The reissues and documentaries have brought the Gabriel/Hackett eras to more ears than before. I still reckon at least half the audience at most venues will be there to hear Invisible Touch or Mama....but maybe the balance has changed a bit and there will be 40% who would love to hear something pulled deeper from the bag.

    I hope they tour on and off for a couple of years like Phil did, and consider some changes to the set. Though whatever they play, assuming it's not a two hour free form improv based on Whodunnit.....I hope it goes down well and I hope they play and sing well.

    Anyone finding the tour has made its way into their dreams yet?


    I had a dream that Genesis did a BBC Radio 2 special where they opened with the instrumental versionof Watcher Of The Skies and then Phil said as this was a one-off special they'd play some songs that won't be heard on tour. After that they played the expected things like Abacab, That's All, Domino....then full Supper's Ready and an acoustic set which included one verse of Let Us Now Make Love...then Invisible Touch and ending with Mama....encore of a 15 minute Duke medley.

    Not going to happen but what a dream!"

    Also a brief clip of Cinema Show. Given that Phil gave the full song a try during rehearsals last time but couldn’t hit the high notes I’m guessing we may be in for the usual ITC/Cinema Show/Afterglow medley, with some other bit folded in between CS and Afterglow. Also would seem to mean that Supper’s Ready didn’t make the final cut.

    I thought Phil wanted to try it but Mike refused as he "can't remember" the guitar tuning for the opening section.

    that's bee Mike's reason for not playing some early material since at least the Mama tour. No doubt some truth in it but I know at least two guitarists he could ask....if he wanted.

    I don't think there's any evidence that they got as far as finding out if Phil could handle the whole song. Tony wanted it. Phil was up for trying. Mike was not. Mike won.

    One thing that disappoints me a little is the keyboards sounds. When Dave Kerzner revealed he had helped to set up Tony's rig, I was hoping Tony would get better sounds than in 2007 (I'm not an "old analog gear" fetishist, modern keyboards and computers are much more convenient and reliable, and can sound better).

    From what I've heard, it sounds very much like 14 years ago, no so good, especially this Cinema Show lead synth.

    A Korg Oasys can sound good, so it's really a matter of programming. Maybe they didn't have the time to review and redefine everything because of Covid, so Tony had to reuse the programs he had back then.

    Tony Banks can probably do anything he desires regarding synth one must assume that those are the sounds he wants. Dave has stated elsewhere that he's provided Tony with patches and samples which mimic the old analogue synths but it's up to Tony if he uses them.

    I love analogue synths but fully understand a touring musician wanting something far more modern, reliable and updatable. But I don't know why he chooses sounds that are very different to the original in some cases. I agree that Cinema Show really sticks out. In recent interviews it's clear he still remembers how he got those sounds in the early 70s, and he still listens to the he must know they sound different the way he plays them now. Must be how he wants them to sound.

    Lots of claims there, suggest you pop on PHE website for starters to to check them.

    The idea that there was no spread at mass events is wrong for a start. Vaccines don't provide immunity, vaccinated people can catch and spread covid.

    Oh for crying out loud they do provide immunity. But it's not perfect.

    If you think my claims are wrong, you're more than welcome to provide the evidence.

    See my other post about scientific and statistical illiteracy.

    You know, posts on this and other threads, about the Covid situation, and how it has made concerts going/planning so difficult, does make me wonder:

    How would all these keyboard warriors/self-appointed experts/conspiracy theorists/moaners have coped with nearly 6 years of hardship and uncertainty over whether we WOULD "get through this" during World War 2? God forbid anything like that should happen again, but if it did, how would they cope with the food rationing, restriction of freedom, lack of even many of the basics, and general air of futility? Personally, I doubt they would!

    Thank God we had Captain Sir Tom to remind us what real people can do.

    There are some differences. In WWII those who weren't conscripted into the armed forces were never prevented from socialising with friends or seeing family. Sure there were blackouts and rationing but people were permitted to travel from town to town, hold dinner parties (with blacked out windows), go to the pub and so on.

    As someone who is emerging from this with a certain amount of psychological damage due to not being able to do those things I do understand it's not quite the same.....but....I doubt we had the kind of lunacy which leads some people to rip face masks of strangers, scream at them that there's no virus, flout rules which are clearly proven to slow and even halt the spread of respiratory viruses.

    One thing I don't understand is the extreme views on face masks that seem prevalent in parts of the USA and do exist in smaller numbers here in the UK....including the demonstrably false notion that masks kill people due to having chemicals impregnated in them or due to insufficient oxygen getting to the brain and so on. Do these people not realise that in several East Asian countries they've habitually worn masks inside and outside in winter seasons for decades? Because they know it's both safe and halts spread of respiratory illness. Is it my favourite item of clothing? No. Is it potentially the most important item of clothing? Yes.

    "But you have to wash them between uses. It's tooooooo hard". Don't you wash your clothes?

    Part of the problem is that our societies are pretty statistically and scientifically illiterate. Even the basics that we teach in school aren't actually filtering into people's brains. And somehow "Karen on Youtube" seems to have as much credibility to some as a person dripping with doctorates and experience. But in a world where we had to teach allegedly functional adults how to wash their hands 18 months ago.....perhaps I ought not to be so surprised.