Posts by Duke of Earl of Mar

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    I'll be interested to hear how much of the following songs are played:


    The Lamb

    Firth of Fifth

    Duchess

    I don't think Duchess will be abridged. In the documentary, I heard the full intro, the verse and the chorus parts as a background music...


    I guess Firth of Fifth will be the solo section only, with a 4 bar drum intro, like in 1992 and 2007. It will be a great surprise if they play it entirely....


    Don't know for The Lamb. I'm expecting a new arrangement (and I'm quite exited...), since it's likely to be part of a medley, based on Phil's proposal in the documentary...


    I'm following this whole thing from France, you don't even how I am happy... ;)

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    There is certainly no click track on Seconds out and 3 sides live and they sound all the better for it.

    I agree with you. I like the "imperfections" (tempo, playing...) or small differences given by a live recording over the studio version. It is something that modern tours, because of programmed cues for video or lightening, usually lack.

    ;)

    For me, Abacab is a paradox.

    I grew up listening to the 1970-1980 Genesis, so I was accustomed to the "mellow prog/pop, 12 strings, big chords" thing.

    One day, I found a cassette my mum had bought, that was still packed (maybe for 25 years...).

    It was Three Sides Live.

    I was quite surprised (and I didn't like very much at first) by the edgy "rock" sound of the three first tracks.

    So, I knew the live versions of Dodo and Abacab before the studio ones (because my mum didn't have any album post-Duke, and I didn't know why).

    When I finally got Abacab on vinyl, I didn't like very much...


    "What ? They cut out the final part of Abacab ? That was the best part, you fools !"

    "No Reply At All ? Phil should have kept it for Face Value, it suits him more..."

    "Me and Sarah Jane... Ah, finally, a Genesis sounding song."

    "Keep It Dark... Another version of Abacab... oh, the chorus is nice actually..."


    "Dodo... God, these synths sound awful"

    "Who Dunnit... What... What... What the... Hol.. Sh..."

    "Man on the Corner... Well, after the previous one, I can appreciate anything, at least it has some musical sense..."

    "Like It or Not... Typical Rutherford song, I prefer Your Own Special Way, but it's fine".

    "Another Record... Oh, the intro sounds promising... Uh, in fact, I was wrong... Wait, a synth harmonica, really guys ?"


    So, it took me some time before appreciating it. Still, it's not my favourite album, but I understand the concept, why it has been made that way, and some songs reached a new level when played on stage (the title track, for example).


    It is an important album for the band, they changed the way they were working, they got their own studio... It's the most controversial among fans, and even the band stopped promoting it after 1987.


    It's why it's a paradox, essential in their evolution but rejected and forgotten in some way...

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    Great job of possible setlist spoilering there despite clear guidance from the moderator.

    Yeah, I just edited (BIG WARNING !!!!!) my two previous messages to warn people that usapcfan seems to know something, I hope it will be sufficient...

    Not my fault, but still, I'm sorry...

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    JHKM has a pre record, so does Land of Confusion (Sorry missed that off the list earlier). One is pre recorded instrumentation - synth bass line in LOC and the other is a drum machine pattern, think the other songs. Hope this helps

    Well, I learned something today...

    I always thought the synth bass in LOC was played by Tony on his DX7 in 1986-1987, and by Daryl after (by triggering the synth with his bass, or with a synth pedal or something like that...).


    EDIT : usapcfan, if you know anything about rehearsals and performed songs, please put it in "spoiler". Some people who will go to the concert want to be surprised... I'm not concerned, but other people do, and there are some rules that we have to follow (discussing on specific threads only...).


    ;)

    EDIT


    WARNING : IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANY SUPPLEMENTARY DETAILS ABOUT THE SETLIST THAT HAS BEEN REHEARSED FOR THE TOUR, DON'T READ THE FOLLOWING MESSAGES, THERE ARE SOME SPOILERS !


    STOP HERE...


    ;)









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    Plus no major band goes on tour these days without sequencing. That might be okay for the Spice Girls but It sounds too robotic.

    It's true, but usually "sequencing" are in fact pre-recorded tracks (backing vocals, supplementary keyboard sounds, usually coming from the album multi-tracks...). But you're right, for nowadays pop bands, because people usually want them to sound exactly like the record. That doesn't mean they don't play a single note on stage. Even Peter Gabriel does it now (for certain keyboard parts, e.g No Self Control, but that doesn't mean he doesn't sing for real, and that none of his musicians plays for real over these tracks...).

    But to my knowledge, Phil Collins never did that (what we hear on the Not Dead Yet Tour is all played for real, no supplementary sounds or sequences needed).

    And I don't think Genesis will do that either.


    Because of that, drummers now need a metronome track to start exactly at the right tempo.

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    Nic is just diddling about over the top of sequenced beats most of the time!

    If you talk about drum machines (Mama, Invisible Touch), ok, but again that doesn't mean that what he has to play is that easy... "Mama" drum part is not "just diddling about over the top"...

    Drum machines are the ground for some songs, but you still have to build the house on it.

    Sad, but that was predictable...


    The problem is that it's not because he doesn't want to, but because he can't anymore. Maybe he thinks he does only half of his duties, since he's not drumming for the band at all. Maybe touring will be definitively over after the tour.

    But he does a great job singing, despite his condition. He's still in tune and quite convincing, and still has his musical sense. For me, it works, even if his voice is not as strong as before obviously..


    I still have hope, because Phil recognised he was "terrible at retiring". So, if the audience response is great, outstanding... then maybe... a new album, with songs suitable to his voice, hand percussion for him, Nic on drums...

    My dream would a final studio album with everyone involved, with Peter, Steve, Ray and Anthony. Yeah, I know I'm dreaming, since there would be too many people in the studio to agree on anything...

    What we have for now thanks to the documentary :


    Selling England :

    • Dancing With Moonlit Knight (the beginning, Duke Tour version, in A minor, instead of D minor, or C# if you take the album version)
    • Cinema Show solo (but without Slippermen or Duke's Travels) , with the lead line of "Eleventh Earl of Mar" and "In that Quiet Earth" as a transition (like in 1978)

    The Lamb

    • Carpet Crawlers (in C major)

    Wind and Wuthering

    • Afterglow (in E Major)

    Duke

    • Behind The Lines intro (with a Turn It On Again live ending in B ???)
    • Duchess (C Major)
    • Turn It On Again (A Major/Minor)

    Genesis

    • Mama (C minor)
    • That's All (D minor)
    • Home by the Sea (C minor)
    • Second Home by the Sea (in E minor as the original, so I wonder if Phil will sing the last verse in that key... "As we relive our lives in what we TELLL you..", given the fact that his limit seems to be F#, and the "TELLL" is an A, a minor third higher)

    Invisible Touch

    • Land of Confusion (B Minor)
    • Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (at least, the first part, in B minor...)
    • Domino (Bb Major)
    • Throwing It All Away (A Major)

    We Can't Dance

    • Jesus He Knows Me (in B minor)


    So, with all these clues, a potential beginning :


    - Behind the Lines opening (great opener, it's true, but it's the same as 2007...), with the TIOA ending in B into...

    - Land of Confusion in B minor (dear audience, this is why the show has been delayed, the world is in a complete mess, but finally, here we are...)

    - Duchess in C (I find this song to be a good summary of what Genesis is, musically speaking...)


    I have the weird impression that Turn It On Again is in the middle or at the end of a medley, if you listen to the very beginning of the documentary...

    One thing that disappoints me a little is the keyboards sounds. When Dave Kerzner revealed he had helped to set up Tony's rig, I was hoping Tony would get better sounds than in 2007 (I'm not an "old analog gear" fetishist, modern keyboards and computers are much more convenient and reliable, and can sound better).

    From what I've heard, it sounds very much like 14 years ago, no so good, especially this Cinema Show lead synth.

    A Korg Oasys can sound good, so it's really a matter of programming. Maybe they didn't have the time to review and redefine everything because of Covid, so Tony had to reuse the programs he had back then.

    Jesus, Duchess, That's All and Lamb. Not bad, very interesting.

    Duchess, That's All and Lamb are quite demanding in terms of vocals. Of course, keys will be lowered, but in a way, it's great to have these songs, it's a good sign...

    I had no doubts about Nic at all, in fact I was hoping he would "energize" the band.

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    Also a brief clip of Cinema Show

    Sorry, probably a very dumb question but... Where is that ?

    Did you actually see it ?

    :)


    EDIT : Oh I see, there is actually a video on the APT web page... I didn't see it first, because the protection settings are too strong on Firefox, I had to disable it. But I still can't read it, it keeps telling me that there is an error. Probably because I'm in France, not in the US.

    It makes my previous answer useless...