Posts by drw4d

Quote from FeelItComing

Yes.... I have mixed feelings about CAS. I do think it's a better album than most people think. Honestly if I did it again, I might put it above Wind & Wuthering, which is an album I can't get a hold of. Some of those ratings, particularly for .... Three and FGTR, aren't even trying to be accurate. Looking at it again I think there are too many C songs.

I didn't notice CAS here as much as I did The Lamb. That stuck out to me, in part because of where you have The Lamia, which I rate much higher. Then I noticed that you have a lot of the Lamb's tracks in the D category. The album, you rate as a B, but if I counted correctly, only 7 tracks B or higher, and 16 tracks C or lower.

My guess is that if I was to go through this same exercise, I would see similar differences between how I rate an album, versus how I rate each of the songs on that album. I probably think I really like an album, because I love a couple songs, and I sort of forget about the songs I don't really like. Similarly, I might think I dislike an album because of a couple songs, forgetting that there are other really great tracks. I might have to go looking for this thing.

Re: Fans wanting to hear Phil's solo stuff at a Genesis concert and vice versa.

It has to be an interesting process that an artist goes through, determining how much of their band's persona and legacy they want to incorporate into their solo persona. Phil and Peter each made, I suspect very deliberate decisions, not to include any of the band's work into their solo careers (until recently). Mark Knopfler and David Gilmour each made the opposite decision, and prominently include their bands' songs in their live tours.

I would guess that everyone in that position makes that decision for different reasons.

Wanting to prove that they are successful on their own

Wanting to avoid getting stuck in their past

Wanting to play songs that they were instrumental in writing for their bands

Wanting to sell tickets, and knowing people are coming to hear the band's songs, even if it's a solo show

Legal ownership of the songs, and who pays who royalties

I suspect this is also different for artists / bands / songs that had primary or individual songwriters, versus those that write as a collective

Similarly, it has to be interesting for the band to make that same decision about incorporating a member's solo work into their show. Do they want to differentiate between the band and one member's solo work? Do they want to capitalize on a solo hit for one of their members? I know Van Halen did that some, with Sammy's solo work. But I always took that as; Eddie had a guitar solo, Alex had a drum solo, Michael had a bass solo, so Sammy got a solo career song. But I can't image that Rush ever contemplated playing something off of Lee's My Favorite Headache.

Personally, I'm glad Genesis keeps their shows to the band's songs, and doesn't include any of their solo work.

Quote from Backdrifter

Given their massive success and huge popularity it's understandable that it can feel as though it's you against the whole world for not liking them, but it's just an impression based on their global reach. Believe me, you're not alone. For me they're in that category that Bob Dylan and Kate Bush occupy: I completely get why people like them so much, and I have great respect and admiration for what they did, but apart from a few songs their stuff doesn't click with me.

This a great, and I think a very important distinction. You can appreciate what a band did for music, the influence they've had on the industry, and on bands that you love. You can even understand why people like those bands. But you yourself don't have to be moved by their music.

That's how I feel about the Rolling Stones and the Beatles. Total respect and appreciation for what they did for music. Their influences are immeasurable. And I understand why people love their music. But it doesn't do anything for me.

I think there's an extent to which, Genesis / Phil made the "mistake" of becoming popular, and then too popular. There's something to being into a "cult band", that allows those in the know, to know that they are cool. But when suddenly everyone loves your favorite band, you're just another one of the folks that jumped on the bandwagon, even if you've loved them from the beginning. I think sometimes there's an aversion to admitting being a Genesis fan now, because so many people associate them with the 80s, and often equate them with Phil's solo career. Maybe it's easier to be sheepish about it, than to be that guy who's explaining, "No, really, they're so much more than Invisible Touch, and they aren't Sussudio." Mansplaining your favorite band is ... not a good look.

Quote from KeithC

Mike Rutherford always comments that Genesis don't have an iconic album like Dark Side or The Wall, but I think Trick is theirs.

I think this is one of the great things about Genesis. Depending on who you're talking to, and even what sort of mood they're in, you could get any of a few different answers.

Selling England

Trick

Invisible Touch

Any of those could be seen as their iconic album by different fans. And then Mike and Tony talk about Abacab being critical to their growth, and The Lamb is iconic in its way too.

As I said, I think that's one of the really interesting things about Genesis. The didn't have a single iconic album, because they didn't have a single iconic sound. They changed over time; dare I say ... they progressed.

Don't get me wrong; I love me some Floyd. Meddle, Animals, The Wall, and Division Bell are all in pretty regular rotation. But for the life of me, I can't remember what order any of the pre-Wall albums came out. I'm not saying you can swap songs out from one album, and they'd fit nicely on any other. But there is a similarity there, that could allow What Do You Want From Me to replace Have a Cigar. I don't think you can say the same about No Son of Mine replacing Squonk.

Quote from Backdrifter

Excellent tracklisting and very well-structured. In terms of the material it suits me just fine. In a way I echo the previous comment on TS but if you do a compilation, YOU choose what to put on it - end of story.

Thank you.

Quote

...then don't put it on shuffle! To me it's utterly baffling why anyone ever does - even more so someone who's nicely constructed and sequenced a playlist and then decides to shuffle it. It'd be like a flower arranger standing back from their work all pleased then immediately scrunching and messing the flowers around.

A totally reasonable line of thinking, and one I can't really argue with. I think what it comes down to is time. If I'm driving home from work, or riding the bike trainer, I may not have how ever many hours long the whole playlist is. Rather than always trying to remember where I left off, and not wanting to always start at the beginning, sometimes I just want some live Rush (or Genesis, Floyd, Metallica, or Counting Crows, each of which I've also built live setlists), and don't need it to be in a specific order, so shuffle works.

I totally get what you're saying though. Can you imagine listening to The Lamb on shuffle, just because you don't want to start at the beginning every time? Why on earth would anyone do that?!? Similarly, why shuffle a curated live set? I get it.

Quote from Simon1967

nice one..good mixture..but no Spirit or Sawyer?...would be a riot with some fans! 😄

I'll grant you that Spirit is an omission. The encore medley they did in '91 includes that, and I think it's amazing! I have a recording from Chicago, that I really like.

Spirit

2112 (overture)

Finding My Way

La Villa (partial)

Anthem

Red Barchetta (partial)

Spirit (reprise)

I would normally have included that whole bit in my set. But it's broken up into individual tracks, and if I decided to shuffle the playlist, instead of listening to it straight through, some of those bits would seem very out of place.

Sawyer ... I'll just say that I recognize there are some people (maybe even most) who would see that as a glaring omission, and leave it at that.

Quote from Backdrifter

Now come on, you can't tell us about your live compilation then not post the setlist! We're waiting...

(taps fingers, raises eyebrows....)

Okay. I will say that this is really newer stuff heavy, because that's what I have the best recordings of. If I picked up some of the older live releases, I'd maybe be able to fill in some of the older songs that I'd want to include.

R30 Overture

Subdivisions

Half the World

Dreamline

Bravado

Time Stand Still

The Pass

The Camera Eye

Leave That Thing Alone

The Main Monkey Business

Ghost of a Chance

Distant Early Warning

One Little Victory

The Analog Kid

Witch Hunt

Red Sector A

Drum Solo

Circumstances

Malignant Narcissism

Entre Nous

Xanadu

The Seeker

La Villa Strangiato

Anthem

Working Man

Passage to Bangkok

Far Cry

YYZ

I have all of the studio albums, other than HYF; for some reason I've just never gotten that one. And then I have a few of the more recent live albums (Different Stages, Rush in Rio, R30). And I've got a few boots from back when I was collecting those for a bunch of bands.

I like a lot of the older stuff, but they aren't albums I go back to over and over again. When the mood strikes, I might pull one out and listen to the whole thing. I was a freshman in college when Roll the Bones came out, so that was a big album for me, and I still like most of it (Bravado might be my favorite of all of their songs, especially live). I loved Snakes and Arrows when it came out, but for me at least, it hasn't aged well. Some good moments, but on the whole ... eh. Clockwork Angels was the opposite. I didn't really like it at first, but it grew on me, and is one of the few albums that I do go back to regularly.

What I listen to most is a playlist I put together of Live tracks, sort of my own concert, pulled together from official releases and boots. To some extent, that's the problem with the digital age; we can listen to the bits we like over and over again, without listening to the things we don't. That's a shame, because sometimes, you hear something again after a long time, and it speaks to you differently. I guess it's an argument for going back through the catalog start to finish again sometime ...

Here's a couple I found when googling ...

Quote from absinthe_boy

The fact is, they don't want to. Understandably they play what the three of them all want to play.

...

And in the end, they're not our performing monkeys. They're human beings.

This ... this right here; you've nailed it right on the head. They are going to play what they want to play.

I'll add that for me, I would only want them to play what they want to play, if only so you know they're not just going through the motions. Play what you like and feel energized by, not what the fans want. Because ... they're not our performing monkeys! Exactly! They should be doing this because they WANT to, and playing the songs THEY want to.

I mostly like the Rockontours podcast. I still can't tell the difference between the two, so I'll take your word that Guy is the interrupter. I do think that they've gotten a little better over time. I certainly haven't listened to them all. But I remember thinking, while listening to the Nick Mason episode, "Will the two of you stop talking, so that your guest can actually speak?!?" There's less of that as they've done more interviews though. But maybe that's why I've only listened to a few of them; their interview style doesn't really work for me, so I limit it to artists I'm already interested in.

I'm not at all familiar with Steve's solo work, so listening to them talk about Genesis, even though I've already heard almost all what was talked about before, was perfectly fine with me. But I have to think that Steve gets a little frustrated at never getting talk about his own solo career when he does these interviews.

Melody Maker Ad - check

Public School boys vs not - check

Tension during The Lamb: check

Firth Solo - check

Phil's Solo Career - check

Steve's Solo Career - <crickets>

There's a handful of songs that fit in this group, or into a list of songs that I've always liked, but I think are often overlooked.

Back in NYC is one that I overlooked for a long time, but it's become one of the highlights for me. And Hairless Heart is, I think, really fantastic. And then someone earlier mentioned The Lamia. I think with all three of them, it took the first box set, and that live version of them, for me to really latch on. I was so used to live versions of In The Cage (3SL was what finally got me into the band), that the rest of the album didn't really resonate. But once I heard live versions of each of those; man, I love them. The Lamia in particular is a great live track. And I get it; I know that the second half of the Lamb isn't as respected at the first half. And I know that it comes to a "conclusion" somewhat abruptly. But I really like the second half.

Many Too Many is one that it took a while for me to find; one of my least favorite of their albums, so it wasn't in regular rotation. But I've grown to really love that track. Like it or Not is another late cut from an album that I think is really strong. I think either of them would have made a great addition to the '07 or '21 tours, but I knew there was no way.

Other folks have mentioned Keep it Dark, and I echo their sentiments. Great track!

It's Gonna Get Better is one that I've known for ages, but never really card about. My buddy and I wore out his copy of The Mama Tour on VHS. But we never paid much attention to this one, because we knew that the Cage Medley was coming up, and that's what we were waiting for. But it's a really great song. And especially the last couple years, I have to keep reminding myself that, indeed, It's Gonna Get Better (at least I hope so).

The last I'll mention is Anything She does. When I was younger, I hated that song, I think mostly because I liked the radio hits, and wanted to hear The Brazilian. I also never understood Benny Hill, so that song was never in the rotation. And then I started to really get into the older stuff, and I poo-pooed IT as a whole; I was too cool for that radio-friendly crap! Foxtrot or Die, man! (Ahh, the arrogance of a teenager) But at some point, something with it clicked with me, and I really like it. I love the addition of the harpsichord-ish sound in the last verse after the break. It's nothing more than a silly little pop song. But I think it's a great silly little pop song.

Quote from Methos

I thought the 92 medley was perfect. The best part of some classic songs, and brought us through the beginning notes of Volcano to IKWIL. It is my favorite medley they have ever done, as I'm not keen on In the Cage too much.

This is one of those "to each their own" sort of situations. For me, '92 has been my least favorite medley over the years. Not because of the big things they played. I really liked Volcano, Lamb, tMB, Firth, and IKWIL. I thought those worked well, and if they had just done those things, it would have been a perfectly lovely medley. What ruined it for me was the 8 bars of this, 8 bars of that, and 8 bars of the other thing that they shoehorned into it. I didn't need mini-snippets of Illegal Alien, Your Own Special Way, FYFM, or whatever else they crammed in there.

I still really like the Turn it On Again medley from the Mama tour. Same idea, where they did 8 bars of this, and 8 bars of that. But I think what made that work well was that it wasn't their songs. They were little bonuses of fun. I don't know how many times I've seen the video of that show, but I still love it, and I still feel the excitement build as they get closer and closer to getting back into TIOA.

But doing the same thing for their own songs, for me at least, didn't work at all.

This reads as AI journalism, as opposed to an actual person writing it. The inaccuracies are pretty blatant, but if you were just a bot being fed articles, I could see why it would make some of the statements it did. And the writing style is kind of choppy; it doesn't flow like a person wrote it. If I had to guess, this was a bot written article, given a pseudo by-line, and not a very well trained bot either.

At least I hope so, because if Su is a real person, she really needs to learn how to fact check and edit her articles (or go to work for Breaking the Band, which was about as good a piece of "journalism").

Quote from MoonlitKnight

Thanks for taking the time to look that up. From the setlists I’ve seen online since I first asked it looks like sometimes they play SR as the final encore and sometimes they play TMB. Keeping my fingers crossed they play SR in Philly.

According to their site, they are playing 2 shows that night near Philly? I wonder then if they'll play TMB for one of them, and SR for the other. For your sake, I hope you're at an SR show.

Quote from Backdrifter

I'd never see a tribute band of any kind but good for them for doing LFS.

I respect that decision. I think I was originally a little averse to seeing a "tribute band". But then I started thinking of it less as a tribute band, and more as a night at the symphony or theater. I'm excited to listen to the CSO play a night of Beethoven, or see Les Miserables or something, even though nobody on stage was associated with the actual writing of the music. That's not to say you need to do the same; to each their own. But I'm glad I decided to see TMB (more than a few times now). I didn't get to see Genesis back in the day, so it's nice (for me at least) to experience someone else's version of it. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

Quote from MoonlitKnight

Hey, are you going to see The Musical Box November 20th? I see they are playing in Chicago. I have tickets to see them the following weekend in Philly. We saw The Genesis Show tribute band last month in New Jersey and my girlfriend was royally disappointed that they didn't play Supper's Ready (first time I've seen them when they didn't play SR). I've assured her (stupidly perhaps) that TMB will play SR. Just wondering if maybe you would mind posting a short review of TMB concert in the Cover Bands thread (if you see them on the 20th and if you have time). Thanks.

Quote

If I had to guess? Maybe not SR. It's such a long piece, I'd assume that unless they are recreating a specific tour where they played it, they'll keep it out, to make room for other songs. I could of course be wrong, but that's my guess.

So, maybe I'm mistaken about that then...

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist…westbury-ny-438aff87.html

Too many things to try to quote them all ...

Vitriol towards I Can't Dance - Yep, I'm one of those who would rather that one be left in a waste bin. I didn't care for the video (which was always on MTV), I didn't care for it on the radio, I didn't care for it on the '92 tour, I didn't care for it on the '07 tour, and it is an always skip on the album or any live releases. I know lots of people really like it, so I am glad for them that they get to experience as often as they do. But I could go on living forever without hearing it. <shrug>

Duchess - Seeing and hearing clips of this on YouTube almost made me reconsider my decision not to go tonight or tomorrow (the Chicago shows, as I type this). That's such a great song anyway, and this version sounds amazing. I wrote this somewhere else, but that moody instrumental opening could just go on for much longer before the break into the song.

The Lamb - I agree with whomever previously said that the Lamb is great in any form. I have only experienced the acoustic version via YouTube, but I really liked it. It's very different, and I really like that they took a chance on it. Sure, they could have done an acoustic Hold on My Heart or something. But I like the left turn for this one.

Abacab - I wonder if that might have been an option vs Fading Lights? Both songs that lead to long instrumentals at the end. Maybe they were thinking Abacab could lead into Cinema Show, but they liked the quieter option instead? I don't know. Either way, I agree with many here who wish that they played at least a little of the FL instrumental, and had come up with a better transition.

Regardless - to all who are going to the Chicago shows tonight and tomorrow, make enough noise that I'll be able to hear you in Uptown!! Have a great time!

Quote from MoonlitKnight

Hey, are you going to see The Musical Box November 20th? I see they are playing in Chicago. I have tickets to see them the following weekend in Philly. We saw The Genesis Show tribute band last month in New Jersey and my girlfriend was royally disappointed that they didn't play Supper's Ready (first time I've seen them when they didn't play SR). I've assured her (stupidly perhaps) that TMB will play SR. Just wondering if maybe you would mind posting a short review of TMB concert in the Cover Bands thread (if you see them on the 20th and if you have time). Thanks.

I actually do have a ticket for that show (or maybe it's the other night they are playing in St Charles?) But in the end, I don't think I'm going to be going. They used to play at a theater on the north side of the city, which is dirty and smelly, and really great! Now they play at a theater pretty far out in the suburbs, which is considerably less convenient for me. I've been out there for a few shows, but I'm not sure I'm going to do it again this time. Sorry.

But I'm sure there's got to be a way to find out what they are playing. If I had to guess? Maybe not SR. It's such a long piece, I'd assume that unless they are recreating a specific tour where they played it, they'll keep it out, to make room for other songs. I could of course be wrong, but that's my guess.

Have fun when you do go!

Like a few other people here, I'm in my late 40s, so I didn't have a chance to see any of the earlier tours. And I didn't really get into the band until just after IT, so WCD was the first tour I saw.

WCD - Madison and Chicago

CAS - Had tickets for the Chicago show, but the US tour was cancelled

TIOA - Paris (got to meetup with some other fans from the old official board at a little bar the night before) and Amsterdam (I wasn't risking the US tour not happening again. So I started off the trip with a few days in Florence before heading to Paris, and it made for a really extraordinary divorce present to myself). Then Toronto, Pittsburgh, and Chicago

I've gotten to see The Musical box quite a few times (Foxtrot, White, Black, Lamb, Trick, Extravaganza), which works for me in terms of seeing some of the older tours. It's those middle years (Abacab, Encore, Mama) that I really wish I had been able to see.