Posts by BassAnd12Man

    I appreciate that but it's a two way street, fans who for whatever reason and trust me there are a few don't like the idea of this tour and I'm certainly in that camp, read and saw umpteenth comments over how great this is going to be and I don't remember those comments ever irking me. I have quite draconian views about this tour, even more so after the first sound bites but I see no reason to rain on anyone's parade, I do, however, reserve the right to discuss the music and the performance.

    As for the bad reviews, again I didn't think the guy in the video said anything false or incorrect, I trust there would have been bad reviews even if they had been at the top of their game, we are talking about Genesis after all. They knew they were going to expose themselves to that, particularly given the shape they are in. They are right not to care, fans shouldn't either IMO.

    I don't think we're in disagreement Fabrizio. It's a free world (well, a good chunk of it anyway) so we can all make our decision to go or not go, or express whatever opinions we might have (I'm always respectful of any and all opinions - yes, even on the internet, the land of so many arseholes). As far as draconian, I go back to March '77 in terms of Genesis Shows so believe me, it's also jarring for me to see some of these videos. But I"m viewing this as a final opportunity to say goodbye to a band that I've loved for 45+ years. It's Friday, it's been a longggggg week and my brain is fried lol. Have a good weekend.

    I could never bring myself to mock them, I love them and respect them too much but none of the things this guy said are incorrect or false, up to everyone to decide how to react to what is an objective state of the situation. There will be , in my view justified criticisms, just don't mind them.


    See, I was on board and agreed up until this final comment, I don't believe not attending is having unrealistic expectations, if fact what could be more realistic than not attending because they are no longer able to deliver? Different fans simply have a different take on what's going on and it's quite Ok.

    I'd be surprise to know the band are reading or even caring about the reviews, I really don't picture them browsing the internet with anxiety the next day. THEY KNOW, what their current level is.

    What I really think it's important is the Gents are having a good time and so are the people going to the gigs. The rest doesn't really matter.

    Hi Fabrizio. I think my last point really referred to the umpteenth comments that I've seen all over the internet to the effect that they don't sound like 1977 or 1980 or 1981, etc. Nope, and they won't. But as you say, and I agree, everyone is free to attend or not based on what they view as ok for them or not. As far as the band goes, I would be surprised if they read any reviews from fans.

    What annoyed me the most was his constant use of "Phil Collins and Genesis". I'm reminded of attending Genesis concerts in the very early '80s when there were invariably people shouting out Phil Collins solo material, especially around 1981. Urghhhhh.


    As far as his comments, yes, Phil is not doing great, yes the songs are significantly transposed to lower keys, yes, he needs to sit down because of disc-related issue and surgery. The past is gone, the future is not here and all we have is "now", warts and all. I also have serious misgivings about seeing this show (which I am seeing) but I've gotten to a place where I'm not expecting Genesis, circa 1977 or 1980 or even 2007. Just as when I look in the mirror in 2021, I don't see he 1976 version of myself lol.


    People are free to attend or not at the end of the day but having these unrealistic expectations that can't possibly be met is .... fill in the blank.

    Based on that and pretty much the rest of it that writer was clearly a championship twat. The stuff about French food and the "females only" remark... No doubt the type of person who bemoans that we can no longer freely use derogatory terms about foreigners would deride us for being "offended", which I'm personally not, I'd just rather not see this sort of lumpen stupidity on display.


    Other than that I'm surprised by the alleged Hackett lawsuit thing, I'd never heard of that. What's the source of the current "vibe" you refer to?

    Hi Backdrifter. Well, it seems that Steve puts a jab in at his former teammates once in a while still. The R-Kive video stuff (whatever it was called) was a fairly recent example of that where he started bitching at Banks, in particular. And I'm probably reading way too much into this but there's a part of me that thinks that the recent post by Nad Sylvan might actually be a frustration also shared by Steve (i.e. that they're "competing" with Genesis at the moment). All silly really since we can enjoy both.

    Geez, I re-read the interview and it's an interesting one. I stopped counting how many times the author refers to the French as "the Frogs". Being French-Canadian, that doesn't go over terribly well and would absolutely never be in an article written in 2021. But 1978 was a long time ago..... I was also reminded of how acrimonious Hackett's departure was (at least from his side). He really comes off as an ass (sorry) in this interview (and I remember reading many similar interviews around 1978 in the music press). And you still get a sense of that "anti-Genesis" vibe from him on occasion, even in 2021, an odd thing since he's playing a Genesis Show! I wish they would just let things go but musicians being musicians (many are emotionally stuck in their teenage and young adult years, even in their '70s), I"m not holding my breath. I should scan and upload the ancient articles I have about Genesis too; it's interesting to read some of that stuff 45+ years later...

    It's far from unknown for fans to strongly prefer 70s over 80s/90s or vice versa, I've rarely known other bands or artists inspire such division of preference.


    But it is the same band - not the same line-up of course but certainly the same trio that played a huge part in creating pieces such as Apocalypse and Cinema Show. When I listen to the 80s stuff I hear the same band with the same talent, skill and creativity but applying it in different ways. Ways that some fans don't like, which is fair enough. To suggest there may be some cognitive dissonance is a little extreme but if there is some, I'd say it's travelling in the opposite direction that you seem to be suggesting.


    I do share your dislike of the shiny clattery 80s sound that found its way on to IT.

    Yup, I do agree with the two-way nature of any potential cognitive dissonance, i.e., '80s/'90s fan not at all getting the '70s stuff. When I express these opinions, I try to be considerate (and not demeaning) of any viewpoint that might be diametrically opposed to mine. And yes, the core trio did write things like 9/8, Cinema Show, etc. I don't begrudge them for changing; many prog bands (ELP, Gentle Giant) died a quick death in the early '80s. Gabriel changed drastically too but it still feels quite innovative. Anyway, some random quick thoughts....

    As someone who enjoys those albums roughly equally (neither would be in my top tier of favorite Genesis albums), I am genuinely curious why you think this. I enjoy Watcher and Can Utility about as much as Tonight Tonight Tonight and the Brazilian. Not too gone on IT title track or In Too Deep, and I find Time Table is a bit shallow and twee.


    Big part of the reason I love Genesis - the depth across their catalogue. And yes, very much peace.


    As for the setlist, I don't think it's about 'new' fans or 'old'. I would expect new fans to be totally agnostic about the material era. They'll have decided by themselves if they prefer the old music, or the really old music, or the ancient music. I'll say no more as we're not in the spoilers thread.

    Hi Watcher. To put is simply and bluntly, those are 2 different bands to me. Having said that, there are songs here and there that I like in their '80s material but it tends to be 1-2 songs per record as opposed to entire '70s albums. There's just no comparison to me. When I listen to IT, I hear a soundtrack to Miami Vice; that cheesy synth pop/electronic drum stuff that was all over the airwaves at that time. We can be diametrically opposed in our viewpoints, that's fine, but I did want to candidly answer your question.

    Those are MAJOR transpositions. As you said, some songs might be ok in different keys but many just fall flat (pardon the pun). Thanks for your list.

    It is what it is. If it bothers someone so much, and I get that it's difficult at times, I would just not go.


    As far as getting lyrics wrong - LOL! I get Beatle song lyrics wrong when I play them live and I've known these songs for 50 years! The brain doesn't work at 50, let alone at 70 as it does when you are 20.


    When I was younger, I saw singers using lyrics, including Gabriel in his shows in 02 and was like WTF! Then when I started to perform, I got a quick awakening.

    You're right Methos. But like many older fans, it's a last chance at seeing band that we've followed through our teens, '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s .... you get the point. I was in a Genesis tribute band for many years so I definitely can empathize with flubs (I was thrilled if I had 2 or less per 2.5 hour show). Unfortunately, YouTube and social media tend to show every wart whereas in the moment, those things are more forgivable.

    I think most of the people going to the upcoming gigs are not necessarily the same who have voted for Trick, Lamb and SEBTP, incidentally my favorites no matter the order. I'm just guessing but judging by the comments, some of the fans interested in the gigs are generally younger, got on board with the latest albums and perhaps never had the chance to see the band live. I´m generalizing of course but I'd submit the majority of earlier fans are not that interested and as such I think the choice of material is about right.

    You may very well be right Fabrizio. But as a 45+ year fan, I am/was hoping for 1-2 surprises as this is definitely the last hurrah for them. And I would venture to say that there's still a sizable portion of older fans in attendance. My guess is that the current setlist was entirely based on what Phil could handle vocally (even transposed). I can hardly imagine him singing ATOTT or Gabriel-era material, for example.

    Tonight Tonight Tonight has been posted finally, seems they had some issues at beginning and Phil forgot words also.


    Tonight Tonight Tonight Video

    Thanks. Man, these songs are unrecognizable transposed so low. I remember thinking the same thing in '07 with Ripples and other songs but this seems much worse. Duchess also lost a lot of its punch in a lower key. I realize that this is the current reality. Also noticed quite a few flubs in some of the posted videos (e.g. Banks was off tempo pretty badly in Cinema Show last night). Hopefully, opening tour jitters.

    I mean, there's a reasonable amount of stuff there. And 'favourite' doesn't really capture a range value. Some people love all the albums almost equally and others only like certain ones. I think a ranked choice vote would probably be the best way to see, but you can't do that on this forum software.


    More generally, I was hoping to see more love for the Self-Titled album, as it was one of my picks (along with Trick and Duke).

    I suspect that rank ordering would reveal roughly the same top 3. It's just interesting to me to see the "era divide" pop up yet again. This isn't meant as bait for arguing. If you like Invisible Touch, go for it. In my mind, there's a bit of cognitive dissonance if you equally enjoy Foxtrot and Invisible Touch, for example. But hey, that could be my problem lol. Peace.

    @ all new members

    You may want to participate in this poll ;)

    Christian, though the responders to your poll are certainly not "representative" show goers necessarily, it's nonetheless interesting to see how disconnected preferences (the top 4 albums are '70s stuff) are to the actual current setlist. Maybe we can send your poll results to Phil, Mike and Tony lol (yes, that's a joke). Thanks for doing this.

    But if he had that confidence in his new stuff he'd tour it properly, he wouldn't choose to do a token couple of tracks and get them hurriedly out of the way before focusing on an entire 44-year old album by his old band.

    This topic always seems to come up and I empathize with the various realities that Steve might be juggling. On the one hand, playing Genesis has become his meal ticket. Less cynically, I actually think that he senses some responsibility in carrying the prog torch forward with this material which is admirable since no one else is doing it. On the other hand, I really like a lot of his solo stuff. I was fortunate to see him on some of his earlier tours (in '80 and '81) and those shows were fantastic. He did thrown in the occasional Genesis bit but it was 5-10 minutes in a 2+ hour show. I'd personally see him again if he decided to solely focus on the solo stuff (he did do Spectral mornings not that long ago) but he is in a "bind" at this point, I suspect, having done these Genesis tours for so many years now. Robert Plant was kind of in the same situation. On his first few tours, he absolutely refused to play any Led Zeppelin. Then, on the Now & Zen tour, the floodgates opened and these became staples of his live shows, albeit in very bizarre forms in recent shows.

    Thanks for posting the setlist and for the videos. I'm not terribly surprised by the setlist (it's pretty much 2007 give or take) which is probably the most disappointing part. I was hoping that they'd slip in one true surprise but alas, no. The intro to DOWTMK was pitiful; I'm sorry. Yes, I'm going to see them (in NA) and yes, I will enjoy it and feel more than a twang of nostalgia but man, oh man, age is not for the faint of heart (and I'm speaking to myself as much as anything else)..... Take care.

    Seconds Out has terrible flow because it's got noting to do with the W&W setlist flow (excluding Cinema show form the '76 tour for now). It would have been better as a triple live album since nearly all of W&W was played at some point during the tour. As someone who saw that tour, Seconds Out doesn't do it for me. It sounds "thin" and Genesis live was a monster by this point (loud and booming).

    Thanks AB. I hope my point didn't come across as trashing MR, as that was absolutely not my point. Quite the contrary, having learned so many of his bass and 12-string parts, I have the utmost respect for his playing ability and he is, in fact, vastly underrated on both instruments. It was simply a series of observations from the interview. As you said, there are probably logical answers for their various levels of "excitement" about the tour at the moment.


    As far as coming alive on stage, I've seen it many times... Many years ago, I participated in a Sirius XM Townhall interview of Roger Waters in NYC. On mic, his age definitely showed. He was severely myopic and obviously had pretty intense hearing loss, among other things. However, the next evening, on stage, it's as if someone had injected him with "super juice" lol. It's interesting but I guess 50 years on the road will do that to you. Take care, Andre.